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"Don't Give up the Ship"

FenderTL5

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New information and reporting says the drug smugglers climbed back into the boat
what was left of the boat
and it was believed they were trying to salvage the drugs
sure they were
and communicate with others about that .
with what? smoke signals?
..I am just waiting to see how the Trump accounts for the future of our children will be turned into an evil thing.
and I'm waiting to see just how Trump will turn this into a personal grift.
 
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FenderTL5

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Won't somebody think of the drug users who are breaking into our homes to support their habits and keep the cartels in business!!???
..I'd be encouraged if a look were taken at the user/abusers that are in positions of power.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Thankfully most of the tough guy kill them all supporters don't ever have to worry about being arrested visiting a foreign country in 10 years and tried for war crimes.
 
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wing2000

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It must be exhausting to hate one man so much.

Are you God? My Bible says only God knows the hearts of men. But it seems you claim otherwise with this accusation.
 
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Thankfully most of the tough guy kill them all supporters don't ever have to worry about being arrested visiting a foreign country in 10 years and tried for war crimes.
“ the tough guy kill them all supporters” to which you refer to just want the drugs the weak softy, let them all in guy, stopped. Is it so bad to care about all those being killed in this country by this drugs the “tough guy “ is trying to stop?
 
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Are you God? My Bible says only God knows the hearts of men. But it seems you claim otherwise with this accusation.
No I am not God, are you?
Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? I believe this is in your Bible as well.
 
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wing2000

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No I am not God, are you?
Matthew 7:16
Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? I believe this is in your Bible as well.

Right. I know Senator Mark Kelly by his fruits. To imply he is motivated by "hatred" is rubish. He has demonstrated his love for country, the military and the U.S. Consitution through a lifetime of service.
 
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Right. I know Senator Mark Kelly by his fruits. To imply he is motivated by "hatred" is rubish. He has demonstrated his love for country, the military and the U.S. Consitution through a lifetime of service.
His fruits by serving honorably in the military does not exempt and justify is dishonorable service in Congress. He is no congressional hero, is is a disgrace to his office. Yes, we will know them by their fruits.
 
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essentialsaltes

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Survivors clinging to capsized boat didn’t radio for backup, admiral overseeing double-tap strike tells lawmakers

The two men killed as they floated holding onto their capsized boat in a secondary strike against a suspected drug vessel in early September did not appear to have radio or other communications devices, the top military official overseeing the strike told lawmakers on Thursday, according to three sources with direct knowledge of his congressional briefings.

As far back as September, defense officials have been quietly pushing back on criticism that killing the two survivors amounted to a war crime by arguing, in part, that they were legitimate targets because they appeared to be radioing for help or backup — reinforcements that, if they had received it, could have theoretically allowed them to continue to traffic the drugs aboard their sinking ship.

Defense officials made that claim in at least one briefing in September for congressional staff, according to a source familiar with the session, and several media outlets cited officials repeating that justification in the last week.

But Thursday, Adm. Frank “Mitch” Bradley acknowledged that the two survivors of the military’s initial strike were in no position to make a distress call in his briefings to lawmakers.

Ultimately, Bradley told lawmakers, he ordered a second strike to destroy the remains of the vessel, killing the two survivors, on the grounds that it appeared that part of the vessel remained afloat because it still held cocaine, according to one of the sources. The survivors could hypothetically have floated to safety, been rescued, and carried on with trafficking the drugs, the logic went.

"They're tactically buoyant and drifting at the craft's top speed, sir!"

Also, 'defense officials' lied to Congress and the American people.
 
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RDKirk

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New information and reporting says the drug smugglers climbed back into the boat and it was believed they were trying to salvage the drugs and communicate with others about that . Which makes them still a valid target. The goal was to sink the boat of drugs . If the first missile failed to accomplish that goal the second was warranted. It appears it was not about the cold blood murder narrative put out by liberal Trump hating propaganda. What ever this administration does some liberals will try to turn it into a crisis. I am just waiting to see how the Trump accounts for the future of our children will be turned into an evil thing.
That was Senator Cotton's view of the video they watched.

All the other Armed Services Committee members who saw the video had an opposite view, that the two persons were truly shipwrecked and sitting on the debris that was still able to float.
 
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RDKirk

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Survivors clinging to capsized boat didn’t radio for backup, admiral overseeing double-tap strike tells lawmakers

The two men killed as they floated holding onto their capsized boat in a secondary strike against a suspected drug vessel in early September did not appear to have radio or other communications devices, the top military official overseeing the strike told lawmakers on Thursday, according to three sources with direct knowledge of his congressional briefings.

As far back as September, defense officials have been quietly pushing back on criticism that killing the two survivors amounted to a war crime by arguing, in part, that they were legitimate targets because they appeared to be radioing for help or backup — reinforcements that, if they had received it, could have theoretically allowed them to continue to traffic the drugs aboard their sinking ship.

Defense officials made that claim in at least one briefing in September for congressional staff, according to a source familiar with the session, and several media outlets cited officials repeating that justification in the last week.

But Thursday, Adm. Frank “Mitch” Bradley acknowledged that the two survivors of the military’s initial strike were in no position to make a distress call in his briefings to lawmakers.

Ultimately, Bradley told lawmakers, he ordered a second strike to destroy the remains of the vessel, killing the two survivors, on the grounds that it appeared that part of the vessel remained afloat because it still held cocaine, according to one of the sources. The survivors could hypothetically have floated to safety, been rescued, and carried on with trafficking the drugs, the logic went.

"They're tactically buoyant and drifting at the craft's top speed, sir!"

Also, 'defense officials' lied to Congress and the American people.
The Law of Armed Conflict actually required the Navy to have surface vessels or some other means of rescuing survivors. If they had been obeying the law, they would have taken prisoners and made sure the remaining debris was sunk.
 
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comana

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New information and reporting says the drug smugglers climbed back into the boat and it was believed they were trying to salvage the drugs and communicate with others about that . Which makes them still a valid target. The goal was to sink the boat of drugs . If the first missile failed to accomplish that goal the second was warranted. It appears it was not about the cold blood murder narrative put out by liberal Trump hating propaganda. What ever this administration does some liberals will try to turn it into a crisis. I am just waiting to see how the Trump accounts for the future of our children will be turned into an evil thing.
New, new information states otherwise. It doesn’t make any logical sense anyways. As they are drifting in wreckage in open water, you think their next thought, while the US Navy has a target on their backs, is to radio for reinforcements to continue on their mission? Or, more likely, they went into survival mode and had not a thought for the illicit cargo littered about them.
 
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MarcusGregor

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New, new information states otherwise. It doesn’t make any logical sense anyways. As they are drifting in wreckage in open water, you think their next thought, while the US Navy has a target on their backs, is to radio for reinforcements to continue on their mission? Or, more likely, they went into survival mode and had not a thought for the illicit cargo littered about them.
Illicit cargo for which there is no evidence that has been shown. Has any of this cargo been confiscated? What evidence has been presented that these were even "drug boats" or that the people on them were "narco-terrorists?" None of that has been presented as far as I know.

What we do know is that the 2 survivors who were allowed to survive (for some reason) claim they are just fisherman and no attempt to further prosecute or capture those people has been made.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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New, new information states otherwise. It doesn’t make any logical sense anyways. As they are drifting in wreckage in open water, you think their next thought, while the US Navy has a target on their backs, is to radio for reinforcements to continue on their mission? Or, more likely, they went into survival mode and had not a thought for the illicit cargo littered about them.
Honestly, I wouldn't surprise me if they tried to grab some of the cargo floating around them. The human brain doesn't always think logically, and "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse], the boss is going to kill me if we lose this cargo!" is a plausible line of thinking in such a situation. Somewhat like the classic saying about rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. That said, without a functional boat, there's still no chance of them actually going anywhere with it, so whether or not they were trying to collect the cargo isn't relevant to the question of whether two shipwrecked guys constituted a valid military target.
 
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BCP1928

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The Law of Armed Conflict actually required the Navy to have surface vessels or some other means of rescuing survivors. If they had been obeying the law, they would have taken prisoners and made sure the remaining debris was sunk.
RD, that happened two months ago. It doesn't take much by way of brains to look at that video and say, "Whoa! That one was kind of marginal. If it gets out there'll be a stink for sure. What's our CYA going to be?" Two months on, the "War Department" still hasn't figured it out, they're just thrashing around and making an even bigger stink out of it.

My question (still unanswered) is, why are we blowing up those boats instead of interdicting them in the usual way, like the USCG is still doing successfully in the Pacific?
 
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essentialsaltes

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My question (still unanswered) is, why are we blowing up those boats instead of interdicting them in the usual way, like the USCG is still doing successfully in the Pacific?
I think it's that these drug runners are terrorists who helped plan and carry out 9/11, and therefore fall under the 2001 AUMF.

Section 2 – Authorization For Use of United States Armed Forces

(a) IN GENERAL- That the President is authorized to use all necessary and appropriate force against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines planned, authorized, committed, or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001, or harbored such organizations or persons
 
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RDKirk

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RD, that happened two months ago. It doesn't take much by way of brains to look at that video and say, "Whoa! That one was kind of marginal. If it gets out there'll be a stink for sure. What's our CYA going to be?" Two months on, the "War Department" still hasn't figured it out, they're just thrashing around and making an even bigger stink out of it.

My question (still unanswered) is, why are we blowing up those boats instead of interdicting them in the usual way, like the USCG is still doing successfully in the Pacific?
What can I say? They're not smart enough even to be effective villains.

Notice the timing of another event, though. I don't think Adm. Alvin Holsey's announcement to retire was without reference to these events.

This is reminiscent of the firing/retirement of the Army Chief of Staff and the sudden retirement of the USMC Commandant prior to the Iraq invasion after their public discord with the SecDef over the invasion.

When top military leadership start jumping ship, civilians really, really, really ought to pay attention.
 
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MotoToTheMax

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When top military leadership start jumping ship, civilians really, really, really ought to pay attention.
As a civilian, what is there to do if one pays to attention to that? We talking flee to different country kind of thing? Protests? I'm honestly clueless here.
 
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