• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

Virgin Mary Doesn’t Have ‘The Role Of Holding Back God’s Wrath,’ Vatican Expert Says

Jump to latest Follow Reply
Sort by date Sort by votes
Michie

Michie

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 5, 2002
185,625
68,233
Woods
✟6,170,294.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
Following the reaction to the new Vatican document Mater Populi Fidelis (“Mother of the Faithful People”), Father Maurizio Gronchi, a Christology expert and consultant to the Vatican Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, warned that considering the Virgin Mary as “Co-Redemptrix” or “Mediatrix” distorts the Christian faith and leads to a superstitious view.

“It is superstition to think that the Virgin Mary has the role of holding back God’s wrath. Whoever thinks this way is not in accordance with the Gospel,” Gronchi told ACI Prensa, CNA’s Spanish-language news partner.

The expert spoke about the new document this week alongside Cardinal Víctor Manuel Fernández, prefect of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith.

In the text, the Vatican urges the faithful against using the titles “Co-Redemptrix” and “Mediatrix” to refer to the Virgin Mary.

Continued below.
www.catholicnewsagency.com

Vatican expert: Virgin Mary doesn’t have ‘role of holding back God’s wrath’

Vatican expert says considering the Virgin Mary as “Co-Redemptrix” or “Mediatrix” distorts the Christian faith and leads to a superstitious view.
www.catholicnewsagency.com www.catholicnewsagency.com
 
Bob Crowley

Bob Crowley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 27, 2015
4,073
2,573
71
Logan City
✟1,008,271.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
I think Mary pleads with God to hold off on his wrath, but she can't stop it. She might be able to gain time, but even if she does it will only be because God has listened to her request. She was, after all, the Mother of God the Son.

I used to see a Catholic psychiatrist. Like me, he was a Protestant convert so it took him a while to get his head around the issue of Mary. He said "It took me years to work out where Mary fits into the scheme of things. I think she pleads on behalf of those in Purgatory".

I suppose it's one more of a million or so questions we'll be wanting to ask God when we see Him. I remember my old pastor saying in one of his sermons "I've got a few questions I'll be wanting to ask Him when the time comes..."
 
Upvote 0
Tom D

Tom D

Loyal member
Nov 25, 2024
436
219
NSW
✟76,017.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
The central theological statement of Our Lady at La Salette directly contradicts Father Gronchi’s 2025 assertion. Mary told the children:
Come near, my children, be not afraid; I am here to tell you great news. If my people will not submit, I shall be forced to let fall the arm of my Son. It is so strong, so heavy, that I can no longer withhold it. For how long a time do I suffer for you! If I would not have my Son abandon you, I am compelled to pray to him without ceasing. (Apparition of Our Lady at La Salette, 1846, as cited in Corteville & Revet, 1921, p. 45)
Click to expand...

Source: Our Lady's Words: Insights On Co-Redemptrix Debate
 
  • Winner
Reactions: joymercy
Upvote 0
Tom D

Tom D

Loyal member
Nov 25, 2024
436
219
NSW
✟76,017.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Private
"If Moses, by the force of his prayer, arrested the anger of God against the Israelites, in a manner so powerful that the Most High and infinitely merciful Lord, being unable to resist him, told him to let Him alone, that He might be angry with and punish that rebellious people, what must we not with much greater reason think of the prayer of the humble Mary, that worthy Mother of God, which is more powerful with His Majesty than the prayers and intercessions of all the Angels and Saints both in heaven and on earth?"
(Source: TRUE DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN, by Saint Louis de Montfort)
 
  • Winner
Reactions: joymercy
Upvote 0
Bob Crowley

Bob Crowley

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Dec 27, 2015
4,073
2,573
71
Logan City
✟1,008,271.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Married
God may have relented on occasion due to Moses intercession, but there were several occasions when He still punished the people of Israel, sometimes severely.

This is an AI generated summary -

Key instances where God punished the Israelites include:

Worship of the Golden Calf (Exodus 32): After Moses was on Mount Sinai, the people created a golden calf to worship. As punishment, God ordered the Levites to kill about 3,000 people.

Complaining at Taberah (Numbers 11:1-3): The people complained about their hardships, and the Lord sent fire that burned the outer edges of the camp.

Craving Meat (Numbers 11:4-35): After complaining about the lack of meat and being tired of manna, God provided a massive amount of quail but also sent a severe plague that killed many people due to their gluttony and lack of trust.

Miriam and Aaron's Rebellion (Numbers 12): When Miriam and Aaron challenged Moses's authority, God punished Miriam with leprosy for a period of seven days.

Refusal to Enter the Promised Land (Numbers 14): The most significant punishment occurred when the people, out of fear after hearing the spies' report, refused to enter the Promised Land and wanted to return to Egypt. God sentenced that entire generation of adults (except Joshua and Caleb) to die in the wilderness, wandering for 40 years. The ten spies who brought the bad report were struck down by a plague and died immediately.

Korah's Rebellion (Numbers 16): Certain leaders, including Korah, rebelled against Moses's and Aaron's leadership. God caused the earth to open up and swallow the main offenders and their families, while a subsequent plague killed 14,700 people who sided with the rebels.

Complaining about Lack of Water (Numbers 21:4-9): The people complained again about the lack of water and food. God sent poisonous snakes (fiery serpents) into the camp, which bit the people, and many died.

Idolatry at Peor (Numbers 25): The Israelites engaged in sexual immorality and worshipped the Midianite god, Baal of Peor. This resulted in a plague that killed 24,000 people.
Click to expand...
God might concede to Mary's requests from time to time, but if He gets fed up enough, He'll act and when He does it will be tough.

Mary might intercede for us, but she can't hold back HIs wrath.
 
Upvote 0
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Michie
Vatican guidance discouraging Marian title ‘Co-Redemptrix’ sparks Catholic debate
Replies
1
Views
269
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
chevyontheriver
chevyontheriver
Michie
Vatican nixes use of ‘Co-Redemptrix,’ ‘Mediatrix’ as titles for Mary
Replies
13
Views
969
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
concretecamper
concretecamper
Michie
Vatican to weigh in on Mary’s role in salvation with doctrine document on Nov. 4
Replies
0
Views
281
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
Michie
Michie
Christworshiper
The Vatican's stance on the Virgin Mary as Co- Redemtrix.
Replies
5
Views
399
One Bread, One Body - Catholic
concretecamper
concretecamper
Always in His Presence
Vatican stops use of titles for Mary
Replies
183
Views
8K
General Theology
Fervent
Fervent
Top Bottom
Jump to latest Follow Reply
Jump to latest Follow Reply