Young earth vs Old earth?

Job 33:6 said:

I agree here. And i think that would also including the naming all the animals of the world? Which sounds like it would take up a bit of time. But how could all 6 days be in a single day anyway? Or days 4-6?

Click to expand...

Aw. Don't steal my joy.
Shred by shred is bit by bit.

Job 33:6 said:

I tend to think of chapter 2 as being a continuation of chapter 1, like it comes after all of the events almost like a day 7. And day 6 creation of mankind would be, other people (because Adam and Eve aren't actually mentioned).

Click to expand...

Read Genesis 2:4 again.
Does it say it's a continuation, or a history, a recounting of creation?
Before answering, read Genesis 5:1; Genesis 6:9; Genesis 10:1; Genesis 11:10
...and please answer wisely.

CoreyD said:

Aw. Don't steal my joy.
Shred by shred is bit by bit.


Read Genesis 2:4 again.
Does it say it's a continuation, or a history, a recounting of creation?
Before answering, read Genesis 5:1; Genesis 6:9; Genesis 10:1; Genesis 11:10
...and please answer wisely.

Click to expand...

Haha

Genesis 6:9. Lets see.

Genesis 5:30-32 ESV
[30] Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters. [31] Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died. [32] After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

So we see the geneologies up to Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth.

The story introduces the flood narrative.

Genesis 6:5-8 ESV
[5] The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Genesis 6:9-11 ESV
[9] These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. [10] And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. [11] Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence.

I would say, this is a continuation. Noah fathers his children at the end of chapter 5. And now after 6:11, we see the story of Noah and his children during the flood.

Let's look at 10:1.

Genesis 9:28-29 ESV
[28] After the flood Noah lived 350 years. [29] All the days of Noah were 950 years, and he died.

Noah passed away.

Genesis 10:1-3 ESV
[1] These are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Sons were born to them after the flood. [2] The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. [3] The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.

So Noah dies at the end of chapter 9. Then the story continues in chapter 10 by talking about the sons of Noah. And it continues on to talk about the founding of the nations. Events that occurred after Noah's death.

Genesis 10:20, 31-32 ESV
[20] These are the sons of Ham, by their clans, their languages, their lands, and their nations.
[31] These are the sons of Shem, by their clans, their languages, their lands, and their nations. [32] These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood.

Ok. These look like continuations of the story to me.

I would say, Genesis 2 can also be a continuation. Meaning that it would tell the story of events that happened in continuation of chapter 1. Rather than retelling day 3 or day 6.

And I would say that, the story is focusing in on a specific family (Adam and Eve) of that broader humanity. Much like a story might focus in on Noah and his sons in chapter 6, whereas chapter 5 was broad and about a prior family line. So as you continue, the story focuses in on specific branches.

Here is the evidence the earth is not 144 hours old.
Proof #2

Genesis 2:4
This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 2:15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate it and tend it.
Genesis 2:19, 20
19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the livestock, and to the birds of the sky, and to every animal of the field, but for [q]Adam there was not found a helper [r]suitable for him.

The man, Adam, named all the animals of the field, and every bird of the sky that God brought to Adam.
At that time, the woman had not been formed.
So, if we revisit Genesis 1, we see that on day six when God made the animals of the earth according to [ag]their kind, and the livestock according to [ah]their kind, and everything that crawls on the ground according to its kind (Genesis 1:25), then God said, “[ai]Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and [aj]let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:26, 27), this was not instantaneous.

The garden of Eden was prepared before the arrival of the man.

God formed animals and mankind in this way...
Animals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man >>>>>>>>>>> More animals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Woman


Adam was alone, with animals.
For an entire day, did God bring all the animals to Adam for him to name them?
Did Adam just have this to do? Did Adam explore his environment, taking in the sceneries - the four rivers, variety of trees, different animal kinds... talking with God in the evening...

Only after Adam named all the animals, did God give Adam a woman - his wife. Putting Adam to sleep, and forming a woman from a rib
All in a 24 hour day period, this all took place?
Reasonable? You decide.

Genesis 2:20-23

Considering though, that Genesis 2:4 shows that a day does not necessarily mean 24 hours in Genesis, what is more reasonable to believe... That God's creation was a progressive process spanning thousands, of years, if not millions, or God just created Adam, "offloaded" a multitude of animal kind for him to name them all, which he did in a jiffy, and didn't even spend a day without a helper, of whom he exclaimed "At last this is bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh"?

Job 33:6 said:

Haha

Genesis 6:9. Lets see.

Genesis 5:30-32 ESV
[30] Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters. [31] Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died. [32] After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

So we see the geneologies up to Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth.

The story introduces the flood narrative.

Genesis 6:5-8 ESV
[5] The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Genesis 6:9-11 ESV
[9] These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. [10] And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. [11] Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence.

I would say, this is a continuation. Noah fathers his children at the end of chapter 5. And now after 6:11, we see the story of Noah and his children during the flood.

Let's look at 10:1.

Genesis 9:28-29 ESV
[28] After the flood Noah lived 350 years. [29] All the days of Noah were 950 years, and he died.

Noah passed away.

Genesis 10:1-3 ESV
[1] These are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Sons were born to them after the flood. [2] The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. [3] The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.

So Noah dies at the end of chapter 9. Then the story continues in chapter 10 by talking about the sons of Noah. And it continues on to talk about the founding of the nations. Events that occurred after Noah's death.

Genesis 10:20, 31-32 ESV
[20] These are the sons of Ham, by their clans, their languages, their lands, and their nations.
[31] These are the sons of Shem, by their clans, their languages, their lands, and their nations. [32] These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood.

Ok. These look like continuations of the story to me.

I would say, Genesis 2 can also be a continuation. Meaning that it would tell the story of events that happened in continuation of chapter 1. Rather than retelling day 3 or day 6.

And I would say that, the story is focusing in on a specific family (Adam and Eve) of that broader humanity. Much like a story might focus in on Noah and his sons in chapter 6, whereas chapter 5 was broad and about a prior family line. So as you continue, the story focuses in on specific branches.

Click to expand...

I thought they might help. I was wrong.
Each verse I gave you starts by saying it's now going to give the history. Followed by the history.

• Genesis 2:4 - The history of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
• Genesis 5:1 - This is the historical record of Adam's generations.
• Genesis 6:9 - This is the history of the generations of Noah.
• Genesis 10:1 - Now this is the history of the generations of the sons of Noah and of Shem, Ham, and Japheth
• Genesis 11:10 - This is the history of the generations of Shem.

No need to overthinking things, J.

CoreyD said:

I thought they might help. I was wrong.
Each verse I gave you starts by saying it's now going to give the history. Followed by the history.

• Genesis 2:4 - The history of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
• Genesis 5:1 - This is the historical record of Adam's generations.
• Genesis 6:9 - This is the history of the generations of Noah.
• Genesis 10:1 - Now this is the history of the generations of the sons of Noah and of Shem, Ham, and Japheth
• Genesis 11:10 - This is the history of the generations of Shem.

No need to overthinking things, J.

Click to expand...

Yea sure.

So my thought was, Genesis 1 tells this aspect of history. And then chapter 2 continues that history. As opposed to retelling it. I'll go back and reread your post to see if I'm missing anything.

I agree that the YEC view of trees growing fast and the events of chapter 2 happening in a single day don't make any sense though.

Job 33:6 said:

Yea sure.

So my thought was, Genesis 1 tells this aspect of history. And then chapter 2 continues that history. As opposed to retelling it. I'll go back and reread your post to see if I'm missing anything.

I agree that the YEC view of trees growing fast and the events of chapter 2 happening in a single day don't make any sense though.

Click to expand...

I can help you speed up your journey.

1. 
   Genealogy is the study of your family, from the distant past right up to the present day. Genealogy records are the historical sources that make this study possible, providing key details about your ancestry which allow you to piece together stories of past generations.
   
   Genealogy records explained
   There are many different types of genealogy records – each type contains different information
   
2. 
   Genesis Chapter one is the events that takes place, in the beginning - six days of creation. Genesis 1:1
   Genesis 2:1-3 the narration concludes the events...
   1 And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly [a]lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created [b]and made.
   
   Genesis 2:4 The narrator informs his reader that he is now going to give the history of those events in Genesis Chapter one.
   This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
   
   He does not give the history in chronological order. Nor does he give every detail.
   He is selective.
   He starts by saying... (Genesis 2:5, 6
   5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to [d]cultivate the ground. 6 But a [e]mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole [f]surface of the ground.
   
   That first statement even verifies it is a historical account.

Can you see why, or do you need help?
That's your homework to relocate your thinking cap.
I'll know if you find it by your response. No. I'm not giving you any more hints... yet..

CoreyD said:

I can help you speed up your journey.

1. 
   Genealogy is the study of your family, from the distant past right up to the present day. Genealogy records are the historical sources that make this study possible, providing key details about your ancestry which allow you to piece together stories of past generations.
   
   Genealogy records explained
   There are many different types of genealogy records – each type contains different information
2. 
   Genesis Chapter one is the events that takes place, in the beginning - six days of creation. Genesis 1:1
   Genesis 2:1-3 the narration concludes the events...
   1 And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly [a]lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created [b]and made.
   
   Genesis 2:4 The narrator informs his reader that he is now going to give the history of those events in Genesis Chapter one.
   This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
   
   He does not give the history in chronological order. Nor does he give every detail.
   He is selective.
   He starts by saying... (Genesis 2:5, 6
   5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to [d]cultivate the ground. 6 But a [e]mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole [f]surface of the ground.
   
   That first statement even verifies it is a historical account.

Can you see why, or do you need help?
That's your homework to relocate your thinking cap.
I'll know if you find it by your response. No. I'm not giving you any more hints... yet..

Click to expand...

And what are your thoughts on how the teledoths noted above do not give history, but continue the story? Such as with Noah's children being born, followed by the story of Noah's ark?

Genesis 5:30-32 ESV
[30] Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters. [31] Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died. [32] After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

So we see the historical geneologies leading up to Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth.

Genesis 6:5-8 ESV
[5] The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Then we see the flood story introduced by wickedness of the world.

Genesis 6:9-14 ESV
[9] These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. [10] And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

We have our teledoth. And reference to the birth of Noah's sons as in the end of chapter 5.

[11] Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. [12] And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. [13] And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth. [14] Make yourself an ark of gopher wood. Make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.

Then the story continues into the future. After the sons were born.

So chapter 6 begins where chapter 5 ends. And chapter 6 is a continuation into the future.

Job 33:6 said:

And what are your thoughts on how the teledoths noted above do not give history, but continue the story? Such as with Noah's children being born, followed by the story of Noah's ark?

Genesis 5:30-32 ESV
[30] Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters. [31] Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died. [32] After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

So we see the historical geneologies leading up to Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth.

Genesis 6:5-8 ESV
[5] The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Then we see the flood story introduced by wickedness of the world.

Genesis 6:9-14 ESV
[9] These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. [10] And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

We have our teledoth. And reference to the birth of Noah's sons as in the end of chapter 5.

[11] Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. [12] And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. [13] And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth. [14] Make yourself an ark of gopher wood. Make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.

Then the story continues into the future. After the sons were born.

So chapter 6 begins where chapter 5 ends. And chapter 6 is a continuation into the future.

Click to expand...

Do you want to bypass Genesis 1, and 2?
No. We will not do that, and run off on a long argument to counter your ideas again J.
Genesis 1:9-13
9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed according to [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, according to [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

It's not a continuation. for two reason:

• A historical or genealogical record is from the distant past right up to the present.
• Genesis 2:5, 6 says.... 5 Now no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth, nor had any plant of the field sprouted, for the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But springs welled up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

Genesis 2 does not contradict Genesis 1, by saying that after vegetation and trees... including a fully flourishing Garden, there was no shrub of the field had yet grown on the earth, because the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
Rather, Genesis 2 compliments Genesis 1, by giving a historical account of some of the events that are reported in Genesis 1.

You'll have to work out Genesis 6:9-14, and the others, on your own.
I can see it's difficult for you, but that's due to your thinking.
What can help, is asking questions, rather than forming an idea, when you read something, and than running with that idea, and basing everything else on it.

One good question you can ask yourself, is.
When did Noah walk with God, and have three sons... prior to Genesis 6:9, or subsequent?
If that still does not correct your thinking, then asking me to do that... I'll have an even harder time.
I had an experience with a strong-willed person, and I can tell you, it's one of he hardest things for me to have a conversation with that person.

CoreyD said:

Do you want to bypass Genesis 1, and 2?
No. We will not do that, and run off on a long argument to counter your ideas again J.
Genesis 1:9-13
9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed according to [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, according to [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

It's not a continuation. for two reason:

• A historical or genealogical record is from the distant past right up to the present.
• Genesis 2:5, 6 says.... 5 Now no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth, nor had any plant of the field sprouted, for the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But springs welled up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

Genesis 2 does not contradict Genesis 1, by saying that after vegetation and trees... including a fully flourishing Garden, there was no shrub of the field had yet grown on the earth, because the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
Rather, Genesis 2 compliments Genesis 1, by giving a historical account of some of the events that are reported in Genesis 1.

You'll have to work out Genesis 6:9-14, and the others, on your own.
I can see it's difficult for you, but that's due to your thinking.
What can help, is asking questions, rather than forming an idea, when you read something, and than running with that idea, and basing everything else on it.

One good question you can ask yourself, is.
When did Noah walk with God, and have three sons... prior to Genesis 6:9, or subsequent?
If that still does not correct your thinking, then asking me to do that... I'll have an even harder time.
I had an experience with a strong-willed person, and I can tell you, it's one of he hardest things for me to have a conversation with that person.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, I just don't think there is a clean solution to this issue. I respect your opinion. I'll just let it be.

Many experts of old testament simply view these as separate creation narratives, as opposed to retelling the same one. While some alternatively view the "no shrub of the field" statement as referring specifically to Eden rather than the whole earth. Saying that chapter 2 must be a retelling of day 3 in Genesis or even day 6 is actually a minority opinion among fundamentalists today. Meanwhile, chapter 2 being a continuation of chapter 1 is pretty standard in historical narratives (2 comes after 1).

And there is little reason for me to continue the discussion here. I've already painstakingly proven you wrong in our last point of contention. It's just not worth my time to do it again.

Job 33:6 said:

Unfortunately, I just don't think there is a clean solution to this issue. I respect your opinion. I'll just let it be.

Click to expand...

An "opinion"... which I did not give, is far better than an idea that contradicts or conflicts with scripture.
Paul proved by references... giving evidence from the scriptures.
A servant of God must be equipped to do this.

If one is unable to use the scriptures, they are just happy with ideas that are not in agreement with the scriptures, and that is not right, is it.
Can you use Genesis 1:9-13 and Genesis 2:4-6, and demonstrate that an opinion was just offered?
No. You can't.

If you believe you can, why would you not do it?

@Job 33:6 I am sorry for being rough with you.
I will be more gentle in my responses.

You probably realize that to say that Genesis 2 is a continuation, contradicts everything said before it, as well as everything you agreed with.
It says that God did not complete his works on day 6 and rest on day 7, but instead created Adam and Eve on day 7, as ell as animals.
It also says that Adam named the animals on day 7, and vegetation covered the earth on day 7 instead of day 3.

I though I should make this clear, as this is scripture we are considering, and so, what scripture says is important, and must be accurately expounded. Acts 18:24-28
The scriptures can be used to prove persons wrong, who warp the truth. It's not a matter of one opinion or another.
How sad that Christianity today which is so widely and largely divided, has so badly distorted God's word... making it of little value to people searching for God.

impressedquote194 said:

Which one is biblical? explain why.

Click to expand...

The Bible in my view upholds young earth. The Genesis creation account expounds Gods awesome wisdom and miraculous great power. Furthermore, creation is a subject pointed to by the rest of Scripture to emphasize these attributes by the prophets. Also Hebrews says God created the world and on the 7th day He rested.

This 7th day became the Israelites Sabboth Day which was a day of rest. God in this way created a larger canvass painting out the symbolism of His promise and shadow of days to come. He pointed them to the promise of heaven while He also pointed them to their “ rest” in their earthly promised land…Canaan. Canaan represents heaven. Hebrews clarifies this for us.

Hebrews 4 iexpounds this and Hebrews 11:3 upholds this interpretation. In my view it reaffirms the literal account of Genesis creation. There too can be found the illustration this provides for heaven in Hebrews 11:9-10.

Psalms and Revelation also are predicated on creation to have taken place in just 7 days. Job, Isaiah and many other references to this miraculous creation drives this point home.

Should especially mention that one of the Psalms says He spoke and it came to be in which creation is being discussed

throughfiierytrial said:

The Bible in my view upholds young earth. The Genesis creation account expounds Gods awesome wisdom and miraculous great power. Furthermore, creation is a subject pointed to by the rest of Scripture to emphasize these attributes by the prophets. Also Hebrews says God created the world and on the 7th day He rested.

This 7th day became the Israelites Sabboth Day which was a day of rest. God in this way created a larger canvass painting out the symbolism of His promise and shadow of days to come. He pointed them to the promise of heaven while He also pointed them to their “ rest” in their earthly promised land…Canaan. Canaan represents heaven. Hebrews clarifies this for us.

Hebrews 4 iexpounds this and Hebrews 11:3 upholds this interpretation. In my view it reaffirms the literal account of Genesis creation. There too can be found the illustration this provides for heaven in Hebrews 11:9-10.

Psalms and Revelation also are predicated on creation to have taken place in just 7 days. Job, Isaiah and many other references to this miraculous creation drives this point home.

Should especially mention that one of the Psalms says He spoke and it came to be in which creation is being discussed

Click to expand...

That’s Psalm 33:9

throughfiierytrial said:

The Bible in my view upholds young earth. The Genesis creation account expounds Gods awesome wisdom and miraculous great power. Furthermore, creation is a subject pointed to by the rest of Scripture to emphasize these attributes by the prophets. Also Hebrews says God created the world and on the 7th day He rested.

This 7th day became the Israelites Sabboth Day which was a day of rest. God in this way created a larger canvass painting out the symbolism of His promise and shadow of days to come. He pointed them to the promise of heaven while He also pointed them to their “ rest” in their earthly promised land…Canaan. Canaan represents heaven. Hebrews clarifies this for us.

Hebrews 4 iexpounds this and Hebrews 11:3 upholds this interpretation. In my view it reaffirms the literal account of Genesis creation. There too can be found the illustration this provides for heaven in Hebrews 11:9-10.

Psalms and Revelation also are predicated on creation to have taken place in just 7 days. Job, Isaiah and many other references to this miraculous creation drives this point home.

Should especially mention that one of the Psalms says He spoke and it came to be in which creation is being discussed

Click to expand...

Genesis describes an ancient near East cosmology. It's not about the age of the earth:

Job 33:6 said:

Genesis describes an ancient near East cosmology. It's not about the age of the earth:

Click to expand...

I appreciate your reply, but I wish you would have addressed my points so as to hold a discussion.

Genesis speaks of Gods creation of the entire world, not limited to a near East cosmology. After the fall, Adam and Eve were sent out of the garden and eventually filled the entire pre-formed earth

Consider just how young we are… America was not even discovered until as recently as 1492

In any event do you mind responding to my Bible references?

throughfiierytrial said:

I appreciate your reply, but I wish you would have addressed my points so as to hold a discussion.

Genesis speaks of Gods creation of the entire world, not limited to a near East cosmology. After the fall, Adam and Eve were sent out of the garden and eventually filled the entire pre-formed earth

Consider just how young we are… America was not even discovered until as recently as 1492

In any event do you mind responding to my Bible references?

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throughfiierytrial said:

I appreciate your reply, but I wish you would have addressed my points so as to hold a discussion.

Genesis speaks of Gods creation of the entire world, not limited to a near East cosmology. After the fall, Adam and Eve were sent out of the garden and eventually filled the entire pre-formed earth

Consider just how young we are… America was not even discovered until as recently as 1492

In any event do you mind responding to my Bible references?

Click to expand...

After all, this is discussion and debate…Christians Only…thus one might expect Scripture references

throughfiierytrial said:

I appreciate your reply, but I wish you would have addressed my points so as to hold a discussion.

Genesis speaks of Gods creation of the entire world, not limited to a near East cosmology. After the fall, Adam and Eve were sent out of the garden and eventually filled the entire pre-formed earth

Consider just how young we are… America was not even discovered until as recently as 1492

In any event do you mind responding to my Bible references?

Click to expand...

But America was discovered before 1492, native Americans were here. Are you Mormon?

And I am responding. Genesis describes an ancient cosmology. It's not scientific in nature. It doesn't say anything about how long the earth has been around.

This short video has several scriptural references:

Here is a more technical video that contains dozens of records by early Christians and Jews that further clarifies on how the Bible has been traditionally understood going back to the time in which it was written.

throughfiierytrial said:

I appreciate your reply, but I wish you would have addressed my points so as to hold a discussion.

In any event do you mind responding to my Bible references?

Click to expand...

I would like to discuss your references.

throughfiierytrial said:

The Bible in my view upholds young earth. The Genesis creation account expounds Gods awesome wisdom and miraculous great power. Furthermore, creation is a subject pointed to by the rest of Scripture to emphasize these attributes by the prophets. Also Hebrews says God created the world and on the 7th day He rested.

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Genesis 2:1-4 reads...
1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.
2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.
4 This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Psalm 95:10, 11 reads...
10 For forty years I was grieved with that generation, And said, ‘It is a people who go astray in their hearts, And they do not know My ways.’
11 So I swore in My wrath, ‘They shall not enter My rest.’ ”

Would you agree that God's rest is the same in Genesis 2:3 and Psalm 95:11?
If God's rest ended 24 hours after God ended his creation works, how could persons enter into that rest?
Would you agree that the day the Lord God made the earth and heavens could not be a literal 24 hour day?
Would you agree that day in Genesis therefore need not be a literal 24 hour day?

throughfiierytrial said:

This 7th day became the Israelites Sabboth Day which was a day of rest. God in this way created a larger canvass painting out the symbolism of His promise and shadow of days to come.

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Could you provide the scripture that specifically says the seventh day of Genesis 2:2, 3 became the Israelites Sabbath Day?
I don't recall coming across that in the scriptures.

throughfiierytrial said:

He pointed them to the promise of heaven while He also pointed them to their “ rest” in their earthly promised land…Canaan. Canaan represents heaven. Hebrews clarifies this for us.

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Could you provide the scripture that specifically says God "pointed them to the promise of heaven, and you aren't saying that "their “ rest” in their earthly promised land…Canaan" is the rest God refers to at Genesis 2:2, 3, are you?

throughfiierytrial said:

Hebrews 4 iexpounds this and Hebrews 11:3 upholds this interpretation. In my view it reaffirms the literal account of Genesis creation. There too can be found the illustration this provides for heaven in Hebrews 11:9-10.

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Hebrews 11:3 reads...
By faith we understand the universe to have been formed by the word of God, so that the things being seen have not been made from the things being visible.

Persons have said that the word of God, in this verse is the son of God.
I'm not sure why they say so, and if it has anything to do with Colossians 1:15-17, but what are your thoughts... Do you read Colossians 1:16, 17 as saying "through him [The Son], God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth.... - such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him."?

Do you see creation as being "the work of His [God's] hands", as stated at Psalm 19:1?

Hebrews 4:1-3 reads...
1 Therefore, while the promise of entering His rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it.
2 For we also received the good news just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, since they did not share the faith of those who comprehended it.
3 Now we who have believed enter that rest. As for the others, it is just as God has said: “So I swore on oath in My anger, ‘They shall never enter My rest.’”

This is an ongoing rest, isn't it?
It does not refer to the promised land either, since the Christians enter it.
Can you explain how these scriptures uphold your interpretation?

throughfiierytrial said:

Psalms and Revelation also are predicated on creation to have taken place in just 7 days. Job, Isaiah and many other references to this miraculous creation drives this point home.

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Two very large books... especially the Psalms. Can you please be specific about what scriptures you have in mind?

throughfiierytrial said:

Should especially mention that one of the Psalms says He spoke and it came to be in which creation is being discussed

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Psalm 8:3 reads...
When I behold Your heavens, the work of Your fingers, the moon and the stars, which You have set in place

The scriptures do say God worked, and he used his fingers, which Jesus refers to as holy spirit. Luke 11:20
Several scriptures refer to things coming into existence through preparation.
Psalm 65:9; Proverbs 8:27; Isaiah 40:26

Job 33:6 said:

But America was discovered before 1492, native Americans were here. Are you Mormon?

And I am responding. Genesis describes an ancient cosmology. It's not scientific in nature. It doesn't say anything about how long the earth has been around.

This short video has several scriptural references:

Here is a more technical video that contains dozens of records by early Christians and Jews that further clarifies on how the Bible has been traditionally understood going back to the time in which it was written.

Click to expand...

No, I am not Mormon

Genesis says the earth was formless, empty, void. It satisfies me and my faith that the earth was not around in any form.
I see, sadly, that we profoundly disagree and that your sources are not limited to Scripture nor do you reprove your source materials with the use of the Scriptures. These matters then will almost be fruitless to discuss.

throughfiierytrial said:

No, I am not Mormon

Genesis says the earth was formless, empty, void. It satisfies me and my faith that the earth was not around in any form.

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Why would the earth being formless suggest that it wasn't growing in age while being formless?