Young earth vs Old earth?

[CoreyD]

Alright. So it's 3-0 Old Earth.

The YEC side is crickets these days I guess.

Give them 24 hours. ...from every word you create.

 

[CoreyD]

I agree here. And i think that would also including the naming all the animals of the world? Which sounds like it would take up a bit of time. But how could all 6 days be in a single day anyway? Or days 4-6?

Aw. Don't steal my joy.
Shred by shred is bit by bit.

I tend to think of chapter 2 as being a continuation of chapter 1, like it comes after all of the events almost like a day 7. And day 6 creation of mankind would be, other people (because Adam and Eve aren't actually mentioned).

Read Genesis 2:4 again.
Does it say it's a continuation, or a history, a recounting of creation?
Before answering, read Genesis 5:1; Genesis 6:9; Genesis 10:1; Genesis 11:10
...and please answer wisely.

 

[Job 33:6]

Aw. Don't steal my joy.
Shred by shred is bit by bit.


Read Genesis 2:4 again.
Does it say it's a continuation, or a history, a recounting of creation?
Before answering, read Genesis 5:1; Genesis 6:9; Genesis 10:1; Genesis 11:10
...and please answer wisely.

Haha

Genesis 6:9. Lets see.

Genesis 5:30-32 ESV
[30] Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters. [31] Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died. [32] After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

So we see the geneologies up to Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth.

The story introduces the flood narrative.

Genesis 6:5-8 ESV
[5] The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Genesis 6:9-11 ESV
[9] These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. [10] And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. [11] Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence.

I would say, this is a continuation. Noah fathers his children at the end of chapter 5. And now after 6:11, we see the story of Noah and his children during the flood.

Let's look at 10:1.

Genesis 9:28-29 ESV
[28] After the flood Noah lived 350 years. [29] All the days of Noah were 950 years, and he died.

Noah passed away.

Genesis 10:1-3 ESV
[1] These are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Sons were born to them after the flood. [2] The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. [3] The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.

So Noah dies at the end of chapter 9. Then the story continues in chapter 10 by talking about the sons of Noah. And it continues on to talk about the founding of the nations. Events that occurred after Noah's death.

Genesis 10:20, 31-32 ESV
[20] These are the sons of Ham, by their clans, their languages, their lands, and their nations.
[31] These are the sons of Shem, by their clans, their languages, their lands, and their nations. [32] These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood.

Ok. These look like continuations of the story to me.

I would say, Genesis 2 can also be a continuation. Meaning that it would tell the story of events that happened in continuation of chapter 1. Rather than retelling day 3 or day 6.

And I would say that, the story is focusing in on a specific family (Adam and Eve) of that broader humanity. Much like a story might focus in on Noah and his sons in chapter 6, whereas chapter 5 was broad and about a prior family line. So as you continue, the story focuses in on specific branches.

 

[CoreyD]

Here is the evidence the earth is not 144 hours old.
Proof #2

Genesis 2:4
This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,

Genesis 2:15 Then the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to cultivate it and tend it.
Genesis 2:19, 20
19 And out of the ground the Lord God formed every animal of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all the livestock, and to the birds of the sky, and to every animal of the field, but for [q]Adam there was not found a helper [r]suitable for him.

The man, Adam, named all the animals of the field, and every bird of the sky that God brought to Adam.
At that time, the woman had not been formed.
So, if we revisit Genesis 1, we see that on day six when God made the animals of the earth according to [ag]their kind, and the livestock according to [ah]their kind, and everything that crawls on the ground according to its kind (Genesis 1:25), then God said, “[ai]Let Us make mankind in Our image, according to Our likeness; and [aj]let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the livestock and over all the earth, and over every crawling thing that crawls on the earth.” So God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. (Genesis 1:26, 27), this was not instantaneous.

The garden of Eden was prepared before the arrival of the man.

God formed animals and mankind in this way...
Animals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Man >>>>>>>>>>> More animals >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Woman

Adam was alone, with animals.
For an entire day, did God bring all the animals to Adam for him to name them?
Did Adam just have this to do? Did Adam explore his environment, taking in the sceneries - the four rivers, variety of trees, different animal kinds... talking with God in the evening...

Only after Adam named all the animals, did God give Adam a woman - his wife. Putting Adam to sleep, and forming a woman from a rib
All in a 24 hour day period, this all took place?
Reasonable? You decide.

Genesis 2:20-23

20 The man gave names to all the livestock, and to the birds of the sky, and to every animal of the field, but for [q]Adam there was not found a helper [r]suitable for him. 21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. 22 And the Lord God [s]fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said,

“At last this is bone of my bones,
And flesh of my flesh;
[t]She shall be called [u]‘woman,’
Because [v]she was taken out of [w]man.”​

Considering though, that Genesis 2:4 shows that a day does not necessarily mean 24 hours in Genesis, what is more reasonable to believe... That God's creation was a progressive process spanning thousands, of years, if not millions, or God just created Adam, "offloaded" a multitude of animal kind for him to name them all, which he did in a jiffy, and didn't even spend a day without a helper, of whom he exclaimed "At last this is bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh"?

 

[CoreyD]

Haha

Genesis 6:9. Lets see.

Genesis 5:30-32 ESV
[30] Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters. [31] Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died. [32] After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

So we see the geneologies up to Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth.

The story introduces the flood narrative.

Genesis 6:5-8 ESV
[5] The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Genesis 6:9-11 ESV
[9] These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. [10] And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. [11] Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence.

I would say, this is a continuation. Noah fathers his children at the end of chapter 5. And now after 6:11, we see the story of Noah and his children during the flood.

Let's look at 10:1.

Genesis 9:28-29 ESV
[28] After the flood Noah lived 350 years. [29] All the days of Noah were 950 years, and he died.

Noah passed away.

Genesis 10:1-3 ESV
[1] These are the generations of the sons of Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japheth. Sons were born to them after the flood. [2] The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras. [3] The sons of Gomer: Ashkenaz, Riphath, and Togarmah.

So Noah dies at the end of chapter 9. Then the story continues in chapter 10 by talking about the sons of Noah. And it continues on to talk about the founding of the nations. Events that occurred after Noah's death.

Genesis 10:20, 31-32 ESV
[20] These are the sons of Ham, by their clans, their languages, their lands, and their nations.
[31] These are the sons of Shem, by their clans, their languages, their lands, and their nations. [32] These are the clans of the sons of Noah, according to their genealogies, in their nations, and from these the nations spread abroad on the earth after the flood.

Ok. These look like continuations of the story to me.

I would say, Genesis 2 can also be a continuation. Meaning that it would tell the story of events that happened in continuation of chapter 1. Rather than retelling day 3 or day 6.

And I would say that, the story is focusing in on a specific family (Adam and Eve) of that broader humanity. Much like a story might focus in on Noah and his sons in chapter 6, whereas chapter 5 was broad and about a prior family line. So as you continue, the story focuses in on specific branches.

I thought they might help. I was wrong.
Each verse I gave you starts by saying it's now going to give the history. Followed by the history.

• Genesis 2:4 - The history of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
• Genesis 5:1 - This is the historical record of Adam's generations.
• Genesis 6:9 - This is the history of the generations of Noah.
• Genesis 10:1 - Now this is the history of the generations of the sons of Noah and of Shem, Ham, and Japheth
• Genesis 11:10 - This is the history of the generations of Shem.

No need to overthinking things, J.

 

[Job 33:6]

I thought they might help. I was wrong.
Each verse I gave you starts by saying it's now going to give the history. Followed by the history.

• Genesis 2:4 - The history of the heavens and the earth when they were created.
• Genesis 5:1 - This is the historical record of Adam's generations.
• Genesis 6:9 - This is the history of the generations of Noah.
• Genesis 10:1 - Now this is the history of the generations of the sons of Noah and of Shem, Ham, and Japheth
• Genesis 11:10 - This is the history of the generations of Shem.

No need to overthinking things, J.

Yea sure.

So my thought was, Genesis 1 tells this aspect of history. And then chapter 2 continues that history. As opposed to retelling it. I'll go back and reread your post to see if I'm missing anything.

I agree that the YEC view of trees growing fast and the events of chapter 2 happening in a single day don't make any sense though.

 

[CoreyD]

Yea sure.

So my thought was, Genesis 1 tells this aspect of history. And then chapter 2 continues that history. As opposed to retelling it. I'll go back and reread your post to see if I'm missing anything.

I agree that the YEC view of trees growing fast and the events of chapter 2 happening in a single day don't make any sense though.

I can help you speed up your journey.

1. 
   Genealogy is the study of your family, from the distant past right up to the present day. Genealogy records are the historical sources that make this study possible, providing key details about your ancestry which allow you to piece together stories of past generations.
   
   Genealogy records explained
   There are many different types of genealogy records – each type contains different information
   
2. 
   Genesis Chapter one is the events that takes place, in the beginning - six days of creation. Genesis 1:1
   Genesis 2:1-3 the narration concludes the events...
   1 And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly [a]lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created [b]and made.
   
   Genesis 2:4 The narrator informs his reader that he is now going to give the history of those events in Genesis Chapter one.
   This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
   
   He does not give the history in chronological order. Nor does he give every detail.
   He is selective.
   He starts by saying... (Genesis 2:5, 6
   5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to [d]cultivate the ground. 6 But a [e]mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole [f]surface of the ground.
   
   That first statement even verifies it is a historical account.

Can you see why, or do you need help?
That's your homework to relocate your thinking cap.
I'll know if you find it by your response. No. I'm not giving you any more hints... yet..

 

[Job 33:6]

I can help you speed up your journey.

1. 
   Genealogy is the study of your family, from the distant past right up to the present day. Genealogy records are the historical sources that make this study possible, providing key details about your ancestry which allow you to piece together stories of past generations.
   
   Genealogy records explained
   There are many different types of genealogy records – each type contains different information
2. 
   Genesis Chapter one is the events that takes place, in the beginning - six days of creation. Genesis 1:1
   Genesis 2:1-3 the narration concludes the events...
   1 And so the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their heavenly [a]lights. 2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created [b]and made.
   
   Genesis 2:4 The narrator informs his reader that he is now going to give the history of those events in Genesis Chapter one.
   This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens,
   
   He does not give the history in chronological order. Nor does he give every detail.
   He is selective.
   He starts by saying... (Genesis 2:5, 6
   5 Now no shrub of the field was yet on the earth, and no plant of the field had yet sprouted, for the Lord God had not sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to [d]cultivate the ground. 6 But a [e]mist used to rise from the earth and water the whole [f]surface of the ground.
   
   That first statement even verifies it is a historical account.

Can you see why, or do you need help?
That's your homework to relocate your thinking cap.
I'll know if you find it by your response. No. I'm not giving you any more hints... yet..

And what are your thoughts on how the teledoths noted above do not give history, but continue the story? Such as with Noah's children being born, followed by the story of Noah's ark?

Genesis 5:30-32 ESV
[30] Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters. [31] Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died. [32] After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

So we see the historical geneologies leading up to Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth.

Genesis 6:5-8 ESV
[5] The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Then we see the flood story introduced by wickedness of the world.

Genesis 6:9-14 ESV
[9] These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. [10] And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

We have our teledoth. And reference to the birth of Noah's sons as in the end of chapter 5.

[11] Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. [12] And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. [13] And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth. [14] Make yourself an ark of gopher wood. Make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.

Then the story continues into the future. After the sons were born.

So chapter 6 begins where chapter 5 ends. And chapter 6 is a continuation into the future.

 

[CoreyD]

And what are your thoughts on how the teledoths noted above do not give history, but continue the story? Such as with Noah's children being born, followed by the story of Noah's ark?

Genesis 5:30-32 ESV
[30] Lamech lived after he fathered Noah 595 years and had other sons and daughters. [31] Thus all the days of Lamech were 777 years, and he died. [32] After Noah was 500 years old, Noah fathered Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

So we see the historical geneologies leading up to Noah, Shem, Ham, and Japeth.

Genesis 6:5-8 ESV
[5] The Lord saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. [6] And the Lord regretted that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him to his heart. [7] So the Lord said, “I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the land, man and animals and creeping things and birds of the heavens, for I am sorry that I have made them.” [8] But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.

Then we see the flood story introduced by wickedness of the world.

Genesis 6:9-14 ESV
[9] These are the generations of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation. Noah walked with God. [10] And Noah had three sons, Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

We have our teledoth. And reference to the birth of Noah's sons as in the end of chapter 5.

[11] Now the earth was corrupt in God’s sight, and the earth was filled with violence. [12] And God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth. [13] And God said to Noah, “I have determined to make an end of all flesh, for the earth is filled with violence through them. Behold, I will destroy them with the earth. [14] Make yourself an ark of gopher wood. Make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and out with pitch.

Then the story continues into the future. After the sons were born.

So chapter 6 begins where chapter 5 ends. And chapter 6 is a continuation into the future.

Do you want to bypass Genesis 1, and 2?
No. We will not do that, and run off on a long argument to counter your ideas again J.
Genesis 1:9-13
9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed according to [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, according to [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

It's not a continuation. for two reason:

• A historical or genealogical record is from the distant past right up to the present.
• Genesis 2:5, 6 says.... 5 Now no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth, nor had any plant of the field sprouted, for the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But springs welled up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

Genesis 2 does not contradict Genesis 1, by saying that after vegetation and trees... including a fully flourishing Garden, there was no shrub of the field had yet grown on the earth, because the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
Rather, Genesis 2 compliments Genesis 1, by giving a historical account of some of the events that are reported in Genesis 1.

You'll have to work out Genesis 6:9-14, and the others, on your own.
I can see it's difficult for you, but that's due to your thinking.
What can help, is asking questions, rather than forming an idea, when you read something, and than running with that idea, and basing everything else on it.

One good question you can ask yourself, is.
When did Noah walk with God, and have three sons... prior to Genesis 6:9, or subsequent?
If that still does not correct your thinking, then asking me to do that... I'll have an even harder time.
I had an experience with a strong-willed person, and I can tell you, it's one of he hardest things for me to have a conversation with that person.

 

[Job 33:6]

Do you want to bypass Genesis 1, and 2?
No. We will not do that, and run off on a long argument to counter your ideas again J.
Genesis 1:9-13
9 Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. 10 And God called the dry land “earth,” and the gathering of the waters He called “seas”; and God saw that it was good. 11 Then God said, “Let the earth sprout [j]vegetation, [k]plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit according to [l]their kind [m]with seed in them”; and it was so. 12 The earth produced [n]vegetation, [o]plants yielding seed according to [p]their kind, and trees bearing fruit [q]with seed in them, according to [r]their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening and there was morning, a third day.

It's not a continuation. for two reason:

• A historical or genealogical record is from the distant past right up to the present.
• Genesis 2:5, 6 says.... 5 Now no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth, nor had any plant of the field sprouted, for the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But springs welled up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

Genesis 2 does not contradict Genesis 1, by saying that after vegetation and trees... including a fully flourishing Garden, there was no shrub of the field had yet grown on the earth, because the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground.
Rather, Genesis 2 compliments Genesis 1, by giving a historical account of some of the events that are reported in Genesis 1.

You'll have to work out Genesis 6:9-14, and the others, on your own.
I can see it's difficult for you, but that's due to your thinking.
What can help, is asking questions, rather than forming an idea, when you read something, and than running with that idea, and basing everything else on it.

One good question you can ask yourself, is.
When did Noah walk with God, and have three sons... prior to Genesis 6:9, or subsequent?
If that still does not correct your thinking, then asking me to do that... I'll have an even harder time.
I had an experience with a strong-willed person, and I can tell you, it's one of he hardest things for me to have a conversation with that person.

Unfortunately, I just don't think there is a clean solution to this issue. I respect your opinion. I'll just let it be.

 

[CoreyD]

Unfortunately, I just don't think there is a clean solution to this issue. I respect your opinion. I'll just let it be.

An "opinion"... which I did not give, is far better than an idea that contradicts or conflicts with scripture.
Paul proved by references... giving evidence from the scriptures.
A servant of God must be equipped to do this.

If one is unable to use the scriptures, they are just happy with ideas that are not in agreement with the scriptures, and that is not right, is it.
Can you use Genesis 1:9-13 and Genesis 2:4-6, and demonstrate that an opinion was just offered?
No. You can't.

If you believe you can, why would you not do it?