Do you keep the Sabbath? (poll)

Studyman said:

I don't believe God desired animal sacrifices, and the Feasts of the Lord were not about the Blood of animals, in my view.

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I understand that may be your view, but what I care about is what does the Scriptures state, are the feasts days about animal sacrifices. I am not sure if we are reading the same Bible but the annual feast days were all about animal sacrifices and atonement. So I going to ask you again, why would God kill innocent sheep and goats before there was sin, just for fun? I do not believe this was the case and why these feast days all came after sin, not before. Why would one need atonement with the blood of animals if there was no sin.

These feasts of the Lord were all about the blood of animals at least if we are going to go by what the Scripture states

Passover:
Exo 12:1 Now the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt, saying, 2 “This month shall be your beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year to you. 3 Speak to all the congregation of Israel, saying: ‘On the tenth of this month every man shall take for himself a lamb, according to the house of his father, a lamb for a household. 4 And if the household is too small for the lamb, let him and his neighbor next to his house take it according to the number of the persons; according to each man’s need you shall make your count for the lamb. 5 Your lamb shall be without[a] blemish, a male [b]of the first year. You may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6 Now you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month. Then the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it at twilight. 7 And they shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and on the lintel of the houses where they eat it

Feast of Unleavened Bread

Numbers 28:17 And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast; unleavened bread shall be eaten for seven days. 18 On the first day you shall have a holy [a]convocation. You shall do no [b]customary work. 19 And you shall present an offering made by fire as a burnt offering to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year. Be sure they are without blemish. 20 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah you shall offer for a bull, and two-tenths for a ram; 21 you shall offer one-tenth of an ephah for each of the seven lambs; 22 also one goat as a sin offering, to make [c]atonement for you. 23 You shall offer these besides the burnt offering of the morning, which is for a regular burnt offering. 24 In this manner you shall offer the food of the offering made by fire daily for seven days, as a sweet aroma to the Lord; it shall be offered besides the regular burnt offering and its drink offering. 25 And on the seventh day you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work.

Feast of Weeks / Pentecost
Num 28:26 ‘Also on the day of the first fruits, when you bring a new grain offering to the Lord at your Feast of Weeks, you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. 27 You shall present a burnt offering as a sweet aroma to the Lord: two young bulls, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, 28 with their grain offering of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each bull, two-tenths for the one ram, 29 and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs; 30 also one kid of the goats, to make [a]atonement for you. 31 Be sure they are without [b]blemish. You shall present them with their drink offerings, besides the regular burnt offering with its grain offering.

Feast of Trumpets
Num 29:1‘And in the seventh month, on the first day of the month, you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work. For you it is a day of blowing the trumpets. 2 You shall offer a burnt offering as a sweet aroma to the Lord: one young bull, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year, without blemish. 3 Their grain offering shall be fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for the bull, two-tenths for the ram, 4 and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs; 5 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, to make atonement for you; 6 besides the burnt offering with its grain offering for the New Moon, the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings, according to their ordinance, as a sweet aroma, an offering made by fire to the Lord.

Day of Atonement

Num 29:7 ‘On the tenth day of this seventh month you shall have a holy convocation. You shall afflict your souls; you shall not do any work. 8 You shall present a burnt offering to the Lord as a sweet aroma: one young bull, one ram, and seven lambs in their first year. Be sure they are without blemish. 9 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for the bull, two-tenths for the one ram, 10 and one-tenth for each of the seven lambs; 11 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the sin offering for atonement, the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings.

Feast of Tabernacles

Num 29:12 ‘On the fifteenth day of the seventh month you shall have a holy convocation. You shall do no customary work, and you shall keep a feast to the Lord seven days. 13 You shall present a burnt offering, an offering made by fire as a sweet aroma to the Lord: thirteen young bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year. They shall be without blemish. 14 Their grain offering shall be of fine flour mixed with oil: three-tenths of an ephah for each of the thirteen bulls, two-tenths for each of the two rams, 15 and one-tenth for each of the fourteen lambs; 16 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

17 ‘On the second day present twelve young bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 18 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 19 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering with its grain offering, and their drink offerings.

20 ‘On the third day present eleven bulls, two rams, fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 21 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 22 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

23 ‘On the fourth day present ten bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year, without blemish, 24 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 25 also one kid of the goats as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

26 ‘On the fifth day present nine bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 27 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 28 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

29 ‘On the sixth day present eight bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 30 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 31 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

32 ‘On the seventh day present seven bulls, two rams, and fourteen lambs in their first year without blemish, 33 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bulls, for the rams, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 34 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

35 ‘On the eighth day you shall have a sacred[a] assembly. You shall do no customary work. 36 You shall present a burnt offering, an offering made by fire as a sweet aroma to the Lord: one bull, one ram, seven lambs in their first year without blemish, 37 and their grain offering and their drink offerings for the bull, for the ram, and for the lambs, by their number, according to the ordinance; 38 also one goat as a sin offering, besides the regular burnt offering, its grain offering, and its drink offering.

39 ‘These you shall present to the Lord at your appointed feasts (besides your vowed offerings and your freewill offerings) as your burnt offerings and your grain offerings, as your drink offerings and your peace offerings.’ ”

Studyman said:

I pointed out to you, Paul's teaching which clearly shows you that Abraham, or those before him, was not under the Levitical Priesthood "Animal Sacrifices for sins", as this Priesthood Covenant wasn't "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham, which the very NAME of the temporary Priesthood proves since Levi was not even born until centuries after Abraham was dead and buried. This is undisputed Biblical Fact. You are free to dispute it, ignore it, whatever, I was only pointing it out.

I also pointed out to you both Abraham's words, and Jesus' Words which show me that Abraham knew of the Christ, and His Purpose. I think Jesus telling me Abraham "Saw His Day" meant that Abraham understood that HE would be the Lamb that God provides who would offer His Life for Abraham's sins. Abel, Noah and Abraham all gave free will offerings to God that God accepted. If you were interested in seeking Biblical Truth, you would study to understand why.

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Interesting you say this when you won't even admit what you said about who wrote the Ten Commandments. But if we are going to go by the Bible, Abraham sacrificed animals according to Scriptures.

He built an alter to the Lord Gen12:7-8

Gen 15:9 So He said to him, “Bring Me a three-year-old heifer, a three-year-old female goat, a three-year-old ram, a turtledove, and a young pigeon.” 10 Then he brought all these to Him and cut them in two, down the middle, and placed each piece opposite the other; but he did not cut the birds in two. 11 And when the vultures came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away.

Abraham sacrificed a Ram in place of Isaac Gen22:13

Just like circumcision was given to Abraham- Jesus Himself referred to it as the law of Moses John7:23 (what was outside the ark of the covenant) as did Paul Acts 15:1. Jesus referred to the Ten Commandments as the commandments of God Mat15:3-14 Mark7:7-13

Just like the Ten Commandments was officially written at Mt Sinai we see that they were already in existence much sooner Exo20:11 Exo 16:26-28 Rom4:15

Studyman said:

Of course your post is foolishness. The Feasts of the Lord were never about the blood of animals. They were always shadows of things yet to come.

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Until you read the Scriptures. I will agree they were shadows until the Seed- God did away with all animal sacrifices Heb10:1-17 which would include the feasts days because killing animals is saying the blood of Jesus was not enough to cover our sins, why they all pointed to Him and came after the fall, not before.

Studyman said:

And Passover and Feast of Unleavened bread were given to Israel before the Levitical Priesthood, before the 10 Commandments, and before the Sabbath.

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We must be reading different Bibles because there is no record of animal sacrifices and feasts days before the fall. The Sabbath very much was part of Creation and part of God's perfect plan before sin Exo20:11

Studyman said:

You keep saying God does things for a reason. And you preach that the Sabbath has "more value" to God because it is part of the 10 Commandments, or it was enumerated at creation. But you don't want to talk about the Christ's Passover, slain from the foundation of the world.

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The Sabbath was part of Creation where there was no sin in God's perfect plan, there would be no Passover had there not been for sin.

Studyman said:

I addressed it specifically, I asked you 3 questions but you refused to answer them. I posted the exact scriptures of this event for your review and discussion but you didn't even acknowledge them.

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The first question sadly, you replaced Moses for God and have yet to acknowledge this. I see we can't reason together if we do not allow the Scriptures to define itself. I wish you well.

boughtwithaprice said:

Sabbath blessings, your arguments from scripture would have more weight if I were arguing for the abolishment of the Sabbath. That is not true. I say with the Apostles and New Testament scripture that the Sabbath has been fulfilled in Christ Jesus

Do you have any apostolic teaching where they tell us we must continue to keep the Jewish sabbath? If not, then you are speaking of your own inference on the scriptures.
Should we obey Apostles or the inferences of those that claim to be Apostles?

I have read the book From Sabbath to Sunday that was recommended to me by Bob Ryan.
In it, I find no concrete Apostolic teaching that uses Scripture as you do. There are plenty of negative critiques of Iraneus, Justin Martyr and other first and second century Church fathers, but no Apostle can be recorded claiming Christians must worship on the Sabbath


Do you know of or have any such teaching?

The council of Jerusalem in the book of Acts does not even mention the Sabbath. To you, it is the implied, but the Apostles and early Church Fathers contradict that assessment. Why is that?

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I have presented my arguments with Scripture, you have presented your arguments with your own words.

There is no such thing as the Jewish Sabbath. People use this to try to lower what the Sabbath is really about- God's holy day, the holy day of the Lord thy God thus saith the Lord. Isa58:13 made for man, the word Jesus used means mankind in Greek and Adam in Hebrew. mat2:27 that started at Creation thus saith the Lord Exo20:11 when there was not Jew or Israel just man and God.

I do not need to prove the Sabbath is a commandment of God, because God said so and I have provided a plethora of Scripture. You would need to prove where God said we do not need to keep the Sabbath commandment and where He transferred the power that comes with the Sabbath- His sanctification and blessings from the Sabbath, to the first day. God already spoke on this matter, He wrote it Himself, if we can't believe God's own Testimony Exo31:18 and said He would not alter His words Psa89:34 not a jot or tittle Mat5:18-19, what I say will not mean anything.

Take care.

SabbathBlessings said:

I understand that may be your view, but what I care about is what does the Scriptures state, are the feasts days about animal sacrifices. I am not sure if we are reading the same Bible but the annual feast days were all about animal sacrifices and atonement.
So I going to ask you again, why would God kill innocent sheep and goats before there was sin, just for fun?

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I never said, nor does the Bible say, that God killed innocent sheep and goats "before there was sin".

It is my understanding of Scripture, not just a verse here or there, but "ALL" Scriptures, that God desires obedience, respect, honor towards HIM, which is only a reasonable expectation given our very existence is 100% founded in His Mercy and Love to create us in the first place.

I will ask you a question whose answer is necessary before an honest discussion of Scriptures between us can conclude. I answered your question, there is no atonement or Blood (The life of a being) needed, when there is no transgression.

So here is a question for you, and we will see if you will answer.

"In your understanding, Did God know Adam and Eve would sin when HE placed them in the garden"?

We will see if you are really interested in real fellowship and discussion of Scriptures.

Studyman said:

I never said, nor does the Bible say, that God killed innocent sheep and goats "before there was sin".

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That's strange, previously you indicated the feasts days started at Creation and as we can see from Scripture, which sadly you did not acknowledge when you said they didn't have to do with the blood of animals when they did. So if they started at Creation, than animals were killed before sin, for no reason.

So back to my original point, there would be no feast days had it not been for sin, therefore God did not treat them the same as the weekly Sabbath that did start at Creation Exo 20:11 according to God's perfect plan before sin. So its not "me" judging God's laws, He made this determination, not me.

Studyman said:

It is my understanding of Scripture, not just a verse here or there, but "ALL" Scriptures, that God desires obedience, respect, honor towards HIM, which is only a reasonable expectation given our very existence is 100% founded in His Mercy and Love to create us in the first place.

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No one is disputing this, it seems like you are trying to change the argument and I can see why. If you are trying to make a case for sacrificing animals as in the feast days that Jesus fulfilled in Him- shadows pointing to Him, no more animal sacrifices Heb10:1-14 Not sure how one would keep them anyway, at least according to the Bible, as there is no more earthy sanctuary. The blood of Jesus and His great sacrifice for our sins was a one time Sacrifice Heb10:10 He became our Passover Lamb, the only Lamb that can take away our sins. If one feels this is not sufficient by all means keep the feast days and animal sacrifices.

Studyman said:

I will ask you a question whose answer is necessary before an honest discussion of Scriptures between us can conclude

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Interesting coming from the one who said Moses wrote the Ten Commandments on stone with his finger when it was God Exo34:28 Exo31:18 and the feast days has nothing to do with animals or blood when Scriptures clearly say the opposite. I would have more respect if you would own this but instead trying to turn it around.

Studyman said:

. I answered your question, there is no atonement or Blood (The life of a being) needed, when there is no transgression.

So here is a question for you, and we will see if you will answer.

"In your understanding, Did God know Adam and Eve would sin when HE placed them in the garden"?

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God knows everything, but just because God knows everything does not mean he does not allow people to make their own decisions, nor does it mean He started animal sacrifices before sin, we would need Scripture for that.

Studyman said:

We will see if you are really interested in real fellowship and discussion of Scriptures.

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It takes two for that and owning up to our words.

SabbathBlessings said:

These feasts of the Lord "were all about the blood of animals" at least if we are going to go by what the Scripture states.

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I will not join you to Judge God as a God that only cares about the "Blood (Life) of Animals" concerning His Words Jesus said to "Live by". I have come to understand that the Blood of the Passover Lamb placed on the two side posts and the lintel of our home, symbolizes placing the life of Jesus, the unblemished Lamb of God, in our mind (Let this mind of Christ be in us) and in our works. ( That we walk, even as HE walked)

The first church of God under HIS Prophesied New High Priest, honored and respected God in Passover, His Feast of Unleavened Bread and Feast of Weeks, understanding that God created His Feasts for them, and Blessed them in their obedience, not because HE desired the Blood of Animals and Sacrifice, as you have been taught and are promoting to others. But because God has a purpose and intent for everything HE does and it is not because God is "all about the blood of animals". This Church of God "kept the feast" of Passover, Feast of Unleavened bread, and Pentecost, and never killed a single animal, and God Gave them His Holy Spirit, as Peter teaches, "Because they obeyed Him".

1 Cor. 5: 6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? 7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: 8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

This has always been essential in God's Salvation plan. The "New man", unleavened. Abraham's Life represented this very journey.

So from the very beginning, because I am convinced God actually knew Adam and Eve would sin even before He even created them, God had a Salvation plan which included repentance of sin, a covering for sin, and a journey to unleavened perfection, as it is written:

Gen. 17: 1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect. 2 And I will make my covenant between me and thee, and will multiply thee exceedingly.

All the way to the Last Great Day of the Feast, that Jesus taught to the people, "blessed are those who hunger and thirst for Righteousness".

All Feasts of the Lord despised and rejected by this world's religious system, replaced by Halloween, Day of the Dead, Good Friday and Xmas, all man made high days which generate untold wealth and riches to the merchants of this world.

And why? In part because they have been taught by "another voice", that God's Feasts are "all about animal blood".

I don't believe, when all of the Scriptures are considered, that God is into the blood of animals at all.

But you are free to adopt any religious philosophy you want, just as Eve was free to.

Re 1 Cor 5:7 “Let us keep the feast, NOT with old leaven,
neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness;
but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.”

Paul is saying not to keep the feast with old leaven

- not literal animals
-not the old Passover system

leaven is sin, unleavened bread is sincerity and truth.

Paul is not telling anyone to keep the literal Passover he is using it as a metaphor for spiritual living with sincerity and truth.

Jesus did away with animal sacrifices at the Cross, Heb10:1-14, if one however wishes to continue doing so, that can be between them and God.

Be blessed.