CNN Dem Panelist Shocks Jennings with Major Admission on Lawfare Against Trump

The vast majority of television I watch is sports,. Specially college. Pregame, post-game, and halftime you have about 4 or 5 people on a panel who just say things because they are paid for that segment to say things. No matter if it's right, wrong or indifferent. They should be taken with a large grain of salt. For anyone to not understand come bankruptcies, Trump Org fraud, Trump University fraud, Trump Foundation fraud, and all his indictments, to not understand this is what Trump brings on himself makes me question what alternative universe they live in. It's like some parent defending their child's innocence and they are just being picked on. Then you read their life choices and a rap sheet as long as I-90.

Clare73 said:

That's how democracy works.

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Indeed. I don’t blame the president for normalizing his bad behavior. I blame his voters and a slight majority of the country for not having better discernment.

GoldenBoy89 said:

Indeed. I don’t blame the president for normalizing his bad behavior. I blame his voters and a slight majority of the country for not having better discernment.

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In a demcracy, "what is better" is what the voters decide.

Clare73 said:

In a demcracy, "what is better" is what the voters decide.

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Lol no.

GoldenBoy89 said:

I gotta unfortunately disagree. He’s the president of the United States and has been reelected well after learning everything we know about his character. This is sadly normal now and I don’t see us coming back from this style of politics anytime soon. Too many people support his style and not nearly enough care to counter it within his party or from the outside.

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As I read this, I realize that the Gavin Newsom insta account is an example of what you're saying so....


Fair enough.

Clare73 said:

That's how democracy works. . .the majority of the electorate govern.

Got a better system?

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He's talking about "Style" not "System".

There's a big difference.

Clare73 said:

In a demcracy, "what is better" is what the voters decide.

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"What they hope is better".

There are a LOT of people who are not happy with how things have played out with trump (I'm thinking of a few "Leopards eating my face" examples with farmers and folks married to central Americans). They voted for something they thought was "Better". I would argue their discernment is PARTICULARLY bad.

rambot said:

I tend to think of rapists who brag about assaulting women and make fun of handicapped people as ethically compromised. Especially if they also try to catch glimpses of teenagers changing backstage at beauty pagents before jetting off to hang out with his really GREAT friend who traffics teenagers. A preponderance of suggestive evidence when there are also direct accusations, is not something you can just "dismiss out of hand cause you don't like it".

And if a Democrat did those things, you would (rightfully) also say they were awful people.

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That's memorized misleading dialog that gets repeated verbatim. As if people have let themselves be programmed.

Servus said:

That's memorized misleading dialog that gets repeated verbatim. As if people have let themselves be programmed.

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"no! You don't unnerstand!" That's the Trump supporters response.

"You liberals just don't get it." We've seen the pattern of it for ever...and he says it loud. But "We" are attacking him. From the very very first indiscretion and all the dozens since.

All of it is true.
None of that is false.

It gets repeated ad nasueum because you folks keep being surprised that we are critical of trump.

It's because he has done awful things.


You're incredulous that people don't like him for doing those things. We're incredulous that people try to twist reality and his own words to pretend these events don't speak to who he is.


Seriously, I've asked this question half a dozen times and nobody has ever said one word in response:
What fruits of the spirit do we see coming from trump? Which ONE? Any? Forebearance? He CELEBRATES the opposite of that.
Kindness? He advocates for hte opposite.
Faithfulness?
Gentleness? Nah
Self-Control? I can't imagine less in control.
Goodness? Depends on how vague you're willing to be.
Love? Does his fidelity record reflect positively on this or negatively?
Joy? The only time I see him smile is when he's insulting someone or ...dancing...or MAAAYBE sometimes soaking in the adoration and worship of his particularly strong fans.

rambot said:

"no! You don't unnerstand!" That's the Trump supporters response.

"You liberals just don't get it." We've seen the pattern of it for ever...and he says it loud. But "We" are attacking him. From the very very first indiscretion and all the dozens since.

All of it is true.
None of that is false.

It gets repeated ad nasueum because you folks keep being surprised that we are critical of trump.

It's because he has done awful things.


You're incredulous that people don't like him for doing those things. We're incredulous that people try to twist reality and his own words to pretend these events don't speak to who he is.


Seriously, I've asked this question half a dozen times and nobody has ever said one word in response:
What fruits of the spirit do we see coming from trump? Which ONE? Any? Forebearance? He CELEBRATES the opposite of that.
Kindness? He advocates for hte opposite.
Faithfulness?
Gentleness? Nah
Self-Control? I can't imagine less in control.
Goodness? Depends on how vague you're willing to be.
Love? Does his fidelity record reflect positively on this or negatively?
Joy? The only time I see him smile is when he's insulting someone or ...dancing...or MAAAYBE sometimes soaking in the adoration and worship of his particularly strong fans.

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The issue is often what gets repeated is either inaccurate or distorted.

As for what you are looking for, have you ever even searched for Trump displaying acts of kindness or gentleness etc?

Servus said:

You're thinking two dimensionally. Think of possibilities other than one that rules out the possibility.

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There is no real, actual possibility that all the evidence presented in Trump's falsified documents trial was faked. None. Period. Nada. Not given the intense scrutiny such a high profile case garners; plus which, as has been noted, not even Trump's legal team alleged that.

So...how possible is your imagined scenario, that Trump was framed somehow? Less likely than Kubrick faking the moon landing.

-- A2SG, though it would have been cool to see Jack Nicholson play Buzz Aldrin....

Servus said:

You don't understand my argument. Because you think it's that documents were faked. Which is actually what another person came up with and started arguing against it as if I had come up with it (a strawman). If you'll look back at what I myself actually said, you'll see that I said misleading evidence or creating a false narrative.

In the movie Kramer vs Kramer, which is about a courtroom custody battle, a lawyer used a playground injury the child received while in the father's custody, as evidence that the man was an unfit parent. The evidence ie the injury was real. It wasn't faked. But is was misleading evidence used to create a false narrative.

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Okay, so you now imagine that the evidence wasn't faked, that Trump actually did falsify business documents...but that fact is somehow misleading, in some way? Or has somehow been presented in a misleading manner?

Now I can't even use the Kubrick example, because the likelihood of this possibility is so off the charts unlikely, it boggles the mind. Please try to explain how the fact that Trump actually did falsify business documents, knowingly and voluntarily, is somehow misleading and does not prove his guilt beyond a reasonable doubt? And, by the way, somehow means he was "framed."

-- A2SG, this should be good....

Servus said:

The issue is often what gets repeated is either inaccurate or distorted.

As for what you are looking for, have you ever even searched for Trump displaying acts of kindness or gentleness etc?

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I'm asking for answers. A single act is nothing. Fruits. With an s.

I did just see him call a woman piggy without apologizing or regretting or anything that could come as s fruit of the spirit.

Servus said:

I did not say falsified documents or faked. You keep setting up that strawman to keep knocking down. You might as well change it up a little and say there's no evidence that the judge was from Mars. Just keep inventing things I didn't say.

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Your premise was suggesting that Trump was framed, somehow. For that to be the case, the evidence that Trump falsified business documents would have to be faked. Evidence, by the way, that Trump's legal team never tried to refute, and the jury found convincing beyond a reasonable doubt. The likelihood of this being the case is extremely low.

Your other suggested scenario, that the facts of the case are somehow misleading and that constitutes a frame, is even less probable.

But if you wish to explain how Trump could possibly have been framed, given the facts involved, I'd love to hear it. As it stands, that Trump was framed is so unlikely that, well, I've already established how it compares to the theory that Kubrick faked the moon landing.

-- A2SG, suppose I could also bring up Bigfoot, if we needed an alternate example....

A2SG said:

Your premise was suggesting that Trump was framed, somehow. For that to be the case, the evidence that Trump falsified business documents would have to be faked. Evidence, by the way, that Trump's legal team never tried to refute, and the jury found convincing beyond a reasonable doubt. The likelihood of this being the case is extremely low.

Your other suggested scenario, that the facts of the case are somehow misleading and that constitutes a frame, is even less probable.

But if you wish to explain how Trump could possibly have been framed, given the facts involved, I'd love to hear it. As it stands, that Trump was framed is so unlikely that, well, I've already established how it compares to the theory that Kubrick faked the moon landing.

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Maybe if you didn't usually misinterpret what I say and didn't add in what I didn't say, I'd have some hope of a proper discussion rather than the usual rabbit hole.

rambot said:

I'm asking for answers. A single act is nothing. Fruits. With an s.

I did just see him call a woman piggy without apologizing or regretting or anything that could come as s fruit of the spirit.

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I've heard him say nice things to people including women, offering lots of praise and encouragement, many times. But if one is only tapped into an anti-trump hate media, they're never going to see any of that because of course those kinds of outlets would never show it.

Servus said:

Maybe if you didn't usually misinterpret what I say and didn't add in what I didn't say, I'd have some hope of a proper discussion rather than the usual rabbit hole.

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If I've misinterpreted or misunderstood your point, you've had more than enough opportunity to explain it better, or show me what I got wrong. Instead, you simply call my points strawmen and ignore them.

And since you've gone out of your way to miss my points, let me try to explain your point better, and see where we stand.

Your point, that even if Trump were framed, it wouldn't change our minds about him, misses one key, salient point: he wasn't framed. He did what he was accused of doing, and the evidence of that convinced a jury beyond a reasonable doubt. And that's not all. Trump has been accused of many other crimes and misdeeds, a good number of them proven in a court of law. Fraud, defamation, sexual assault, just to name a few, and there are others going back well before his entrance into politics. His life has been public long before he descended in that escalator.

So, your implied premise that our criticism of Trump comes from bias alone is incorrect. One can easily object to Trump based on Trump's actions, and his character as has been observed and reported on for decades. The 34 felony convictions is just the tip of the iceberg.

So, of course if someone came out and said Trump was framed, it wouldn't make a difference. A negative view of Trump doesn't come from that one single trial where he was proven guilty of 34 felonies, it comes from a much larger body of evidence of dubious and questionable behavior over the years, including a previous term as president. Add to that, the fact that the possibility of him being framed for those crimes is so monumentally unlikely, it's frankly laughable. That doesn't help your premise.

Trump being framed is about as likely as Trump singlehandedly curing cancer, another ridiculous scenario some have come up with to pretend that a justifiable and understandable objection to Donald Trump could not possibly come from the man himself, but must be due to an irrational bias. That's a false premise.

-- A2SG, the real difference between Trump detractors and Trump supporters is the former choose not to ignore reality, while the latter has to......

GoldenBoy89 said:

Lol no.

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That explains a lot. . .

rambot said:

He's talking about "Style" not "System".

There's a big difference.

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"Style" and three bucks will get you a cup of coffee.

rambot said:

"What they hope is better".

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That's as good as it gets on planet Earth.