Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw fake electors plot in 7 states

essentialsaltes · Nov 10, 2023

Arizona fake electors led vocal campaign to overturn the 2020 election – they’re now part of a ‘robust’ state investigation

Much attention has been drawn to the fake elector schemes in Georgia and Michigan where local and state authorities charged some participants for election crimes this past summer. But in no other state were there fake electors more active in publicly promoting the scheme than in Arizona.

Now those fake electors find themselves under new legal scrutiny as the Arizona attorney general announced a broad investigation into their actions and their public campaign that could open the electors up to increased legal liability, according to experts who spoke with CNN.

Five vocal fake electors

The most publicly vocal of the fake electors, Kelli Ward called the group the “true electors,” and provided play-by-play updates on the Arizona Republican Party’s YouTube. Falsely saying the state’s electoral votes were “contested,” even though legal challenges to the count had been dismissed, she urged supporters to call on Arizona’s state legislature to decertify the state’s results.

Ward’s comments were echoed in tweets by her husband, Michael, also an elector and a gadfly in Arizona politics known for spreading conspiracy theories.

“It’s pretty simple: The President of the United States Senate (VP) has the awesome power of acknowledging a specific envelope of electoral votes when there are two competing slates— or none at all,” wrote [RNC Committeeman] Bowyer in a December 28 tweet.

“We don’t live in a Democracy. The presidential election isn’t democratic,” he added when receiving pushback.

“Be a modern Son of Liberty today,” he said late in the morning of January 6 – a post he deleted following the riot at the Capitol.

“On January 6th, vice President Mike Pence gets a choice on which electors he’s going to choose,” [Then-state Rep.] Kern told the Epoch Times in an interview in December.

Kern was in DC that day and shared a photo from the Capitol grounds as rioters gathered on the steps of the Capitol.

Later Kern was seen in a restricted area of the Capitol steps during the riot. There is no indication he was violent, and he has not been charged with any crime.

essentialsaltes · Dec 7, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
Wis. Democrats file first-of-its-kind suit vs. fake Trump electors

Three Democratic voters in Wisconsin, including two who served as electors for President Biden in 2020, filed suit Tuesday against 10 supporters of Donald Trump in the state, arguing the group engaged in a civil conspiracy to violate state and federal law when they declared themselves presidential electors in 2020 even though Biden won the state’s popular vote.

Trump’s Wisconsin Electors Admit Biden Won in Election Suit Settlement

The final settlement included no ... fine but contained an admission by the electors that Biden was the rightful winner of the 2020 election and an agreement to help the Department of Justice with other cases pertaining to efforts to overturn Biden’s victory.

“We oppose any attempt to undermine the public’s faith in the ultimate results of the 2020 presidential election,” the electors said in the settlement.

Hans Blaster · Dec 8, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
Trump’s Wisconsin Electors Admit Biden Won in Election Suit Settlement
The final settlement included no ... fine but contained an admission by the electors that Biden was the rightful winner of the 2020 election and an agreement to help the Department of Justice with other cases pertaining to efforts to overturn Biden’s victory.

“We oppose any attempt to undermine the public’s faith in the ultimate results of the 2020 presidential election,” the electors said in the settlement.

Of all of the fake elector related litigation (including charges against fake electors in some states), this settlement is the most important.

Not only are they cooperating, but they have officially withdrawn all prior claims and filings related to their claims. The released evidence clearly shows the fake electors acknowledging at the time in their own internal communications, being organized by Ken Chesebro and Rudy, and being told not to contact media outlets.

essentialsaltes · Dec 14, 2023

New evidence shows Trump's "fake electors" expressed legal reservations to Rudy Giuliani

A group of Republicans in Pennsylvania — where Joe Biden won in 2020 by 1 percentage point — had hesitations about authorizing certificates claiming to be the state's official presidential electors, the documents show. They expressed legal concerns during a Dec. 12, 2020 conference call with personal Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani and campaign official Mike Roman, according to emails about the conversation.

To assuage those concerns, Chesebro authored alternative language for the Pennsylvania and New Mexico electoral certificates that stipulated the Republicans in those states weren't official electors but "might later be determined" to be, according to an email.

"Mike, I think the language at the start of the certificate should be changed in all the states," Chesebro wrote in a text message to Roman on Dec. 12, 2020. "Let's look at the language carefully."

"I don't," responded Roman, the Trump campaign's director of Election Day operations.

"I can help with drafting in a couple hours," Chesebro replied.

"[blank] these guys," Roman messaged back.

perplexed · Dec 16, 2023

essentialsaltes said:
"[blank] these guys," Roman messaged back.

Golly, if Roman decided you are blanked you are totally blanked

perplexed · Dec 16, 2023

I do find this very interesting but I am unclear on exact details about the
fake electors in the 2020 election and the alternate electors in the 1960 election
I would like for the people that are more knowledgeable to tell me where I am wrong

My understanding of the Georgia "fake electors" in the 2020 election

Mike Pence looked at the "certificate of ascertainment saying Biden won Georgia"

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/2020/ascertainment-georgia.pdf

and the
"certificate of ascertainment saying Trump won Georgia"

https://www.archives.gov/files/foia/ga-full.pdf

Mike pence said he had to ignore the certificate saying Trump won because it was missing the Governor's signature (there is a space for the Governor to sign on page 10 but it is not signed"

there were very different to the "certificates of ascertainment" sent to congress by Jan 6 1961,

Overview of the alternate electors for Hawaii in the 1960 election
Richard Nixon was vice President and he had a problem on Jan 6 1961 because there 3 certificates of ascertainment from Hawaii
2 of the certificates were sent in before a close recount resolved
1 certificate saying Kennedy won not signed by the governor

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017e-d45f-d1c5-a7ff-d6ffa18c0000

and 1 certificate said Nixon won that was signed by the governor
There was also a certificate signed by the governor saying Kennedy won, this certificate sent in after the court decided that Kennedy had won

There was an also an Affidavit From the Governor making it clear that Kennedy won Hawaii

So Nixon Told Congress Kennedy won Hawaii and since there were no objections there was no issue.

SimplyMe · Dec 16, 2023

perplexed said:
I do find this very interesting but I am unclear on exact details about the
fake electors in the 2020 election and the alternate electors in the 1960 election
I would like for the people that are more knowledgeable to tell me where I am wrong

My understanding of the Georgia "fake electors" in the 2020 election

Mike Pence looked at the "certificate of ascertainment saying Biden won Georgia"

https://www.archives.gov/files/electoral-college/2020/ascertainment-georgia.pdf
and the
"certificate of ascertainment saying Trump won Georgia"

https://www.archives.gov/files/foia/ga-full.pdf
Mike pence said he had to ignore the certificate saying Trump won because it was missing the Governor's signature (there is a space for the Governor to sign on page 10 but it is not signed"

there were very different to the "certificates of ascertainment" sent to congress by Jan 6 1961,

Overview of the alternate electors for Hawaii in the 1960 election
Richard Nixon was vice President and he had a problem on Jan 6 1961 because there 3 certificates of ascertainment from Hawaii
2 of the certificates were sent in before a close recount resolved
1 certificate saying Kennedy won not signed by the governor

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=0000017e-d45f-d1c5-a7ff-d6ffa18c0000
and 1 certificate said Nixon won that was signed by the governor
There was also a certificate signed by the governor saying Kennedy won, this certificate sent in after the court decided that Kennedy had won

There was an also an Affidavit From the Governor making it clear that Kennedy won Hawaii

So Nixon Told Congress Kennedy won Hawaii and since there were no objections there was no issue.

The difference is that in 1960, as you point out, the results of the election in Hawaii was unresolved. As such, the state had both parties turn in certificates since they had hit the day the Constitution mandated for the Electoral College ballot needed to be sent to Congress. Because Nixon had won the initial count, the governor signed the ballot claiming he won but the state sent both in, in case Kennedy ended up winning, since the vote was so close.

When Kennedy ended up winning, after the recount, the state instructed Congress that Kennedy's ballot should count and they resubmitted the Kennedy ballot with the governor's signature -- though technically it was sent too late. Nixon, as VP, counted the Kennedy ballot from Hawaii since he knew that Kennedy had been declared the winner by the state. Congress also did not object, since they also knew that Hawaii had officially declared Kennedy the winner after the recount completed.

The difference in 2020 is that the states did not turn in the alternate ballots. Instead, the Trump campaign had these "electors" meet and send in the alternate ballots, despite the fact the states had declared Biden the official winner of the elections in their state. The idea was that VP Pence could "chose" to count the Trump campaigns electors, rather than the official ballot from the state. Two ideas were in play: first, if enough of Congress would go along with this plan, Trump would "win" the election. Second, even if Congress refused to accept the ballots, it would prevent Biden from getting enough Electoral Votes to win the election, if the official votes from the swing states were not counted, and the House would vote to elect the new President.

If the House votes after there is no winner in the Electoral College, each state gets one vote. Basically, each Congressperson votes and it is tallied by state -- so if the total of the vote of California Congresspeople were to vote for Biden, Biden would get one vote from California. In this way, even though Democrats had a slim majority in the House at the time, Trump would likely still win, as the Republicans had a majority of Congresspeople from each state. It was a plan by the Trump campaign to overturn the results of the election by having the VP choose the "alternate" votes that were not authorized by the state, the fraudulent votes. This is why states have started charging the fake electors, since they "lied" on the forms where they claimed they were the duly elected Electors from the state.

Of course, Pence refused to accept the alternate electors, instead accepting the ones sent in by the states, which largely foiled Trump's plan.

essentialsaltes · Dec 28, 2023

Exclusive: Recordings, emails show how Trump team flew fake elector ballots to DC in final push to overturn 2020 election

Two days before the January 6 insurrection, the Trump campaign’s plan to use fake electors to block President-elect Joe Biden from taking office faced a potentially crippling hiccup: The fake elector certificates from two critical battleground states were stuck in the mail.

The new details provide a behind-the-scenes glimpse of the chaotic last-minute effort to keep Donald Trump in office.

These details largely come from pro-Trump attorney Kenneth Chesebro, who was an architect of the fake electors plot and is now a key cooperator in several state probes into the scheme.

Emails obtained by CNN corroborate what Chesebro told Michigan prosecutors: He communicated with the top Trump campaign lawyer, Matt Morgan, and another campaign official, Mike Roman, to ferry the documents to Washington on January 5.

From there, Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin and a Pennsylvania congressman assisted in the effort to get the documents into Pence’s hands.

[Chesebro told investigators that Roman connected him with an aide for a Pennsylvania GOP lawmaker that he believed was Rep. Scott Perry to turn over the documents. Chesebro wasn’t certain which congressman the staffer worked for – and the January 6 report says a staffer for a different Pennsylvania Republican, Rep. Mike Kelly, helped shuttle the documents that day.]

Asked about the episode, a spokesperson for Johnson pointed to his previous comments, where he said, “my involvement in that attempt to deliver spanned the course of a couple seconds,” and that, “in the end, those electors were not delivered.”

Email from Joshua Findlay [at the time on the Trump campaign legal team, but later (get this) the RNC national director for election integrity] to Chesebro helpfully points out the (ir)responsible parties in each state.

essentialsaltes · Mar 4, 2024

essentialsaltes said:
Wis. Democrats file first-of-its-kind suit vs. fake Trump electors

I don't think this is the same lawsuit, but this certainly fits in this thread.

Text messages shed new light on scope of fake electors plot after 2020 election

The new materials were disclosed after Chesebro and former Trump lawyer Jim Troupis, who are both from Wisconsin, settled a lawsuit brought by Wisconsin’s real Democratic electors from 2020.

Right-wing attorney Kenneth Chesebro, who helped devise the Trump campaign’s fake electors plot, continued proposing ways to overturn the 2020 presidential election even after the US Capitol attack on January 6, 2021, according to texts and emails made public Monday as part of a lawsuit.

Chesebro told Troupis in late 2020 that it was “really not necessary” to link the GOP electors to ongoing litigation. “Having the electors send in alternate slates of votes on Dec. 14 can pay huge dividends even if there is no litigation pending on Jan. 6,” Chesebro said in an email.

Congress could seat the pro-Trump electors “even if Trump lost all the legal cases, and none are still pending,” Chesebro wrote in the email to Troupis on December 8, 2020. ['We could just, you know... cheat']

“Jim, can you send my December 6 memo to (Trump lawyer) Justin Clark … messaging on Jan. 6 being the real date is key,” Chesebro wrote to Troupis on December 7, 2020.

“I have sent it to the White House this afternoon. The real decision makers,” Troupis responded, though he didn’t identify who at the White House received the memo.

essentialsaltes · Apr 5, 2024

essentialsaltes said:
Arizona fake electors led vocal campaign to overturn the 2020 election – they’re now part of a ‘robust’ state investigation
Now those fake electors find themselves under new legal scrutiny as the Arizona attorney general announced a broad investigation into their actions and their public campaign that could open the electors up to increased legal liability, according to experts who spoke with CNN.

Reps. Andy Biggs and Paul Gosar of Arizona received subpoenas as part of a probe into a scheme that attempted to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in the state, according to a Politico report published Thursday.

The investigation by Arizona Attorney General Kris Mayes is similar to those in other states Donald Trump lost, where the former president and his allies attempted to advance slates of pro-Trump electors for recognition in the Electoral College.

It’s just the latest subpoenas Mayes has issued in the investigation. Last month, she subpoenaed former Trump campaign aide Michael Roman.

essentialsaltes · Oct 18, 2024

More than a dozen Republicans who served as "fake electors" in 2020, including some who are facing criminal charges, are reportedly serving as official Donald Trump electors in battleground states this year, while another 16 electors from those states say president Joe Biden's election win was fraudulent.

Altogether, election deniers and fake electors make up more than a third of the 82 electors chosen this year to support the former president in the seven states where he tried to overturn his 2020 loss [with fake or alternate electors].

DaisyDay · Oct 19, 2024

essentialsaltes said:
More than a dozen Republicans who served as "fake electors" in 2020, including some who are facing criminal charges, are reportedly serving as official Donald Trump electors in battleground states this year, while another 16 electors from those states say president Joe Biden's election win was fraudulent.

Altogether, election deniers and fake electors make up more than a third of the 82 electors chosen this year to support the former president in the seven states where he tried to overturn his 2020 loss [with fake or alternate electors].

How is it they were not criminally prosecuted?

essentialsaltes · Oct 19, 2024

DaisyDay said:
How is it they were not criminally prosecuted?

Cases are ongoing in the five (of seven) states where the Trump elector documents did not add a proviso about their provisional nature.

essentialsaltes said:
Nevada fake electors won't stand trial until January 2025 under judge's new schedule

essentialsaltes said:
[Georgia] ‘No legal basis’: Trump RICO co-defendant loses motion to dismiss charges after arguing the indictment’s references to ‘false Electoral College votes’ were too prejudicial

essentialsaltes said:
Michigan AG executes search warrants on Google and X in ongoing 2020 fake electors probe

essentialsaltes said:
The Wisconsin attorney general on Tuesday filed charges against three allies of Donald Trump accused of taking part in the effort to put forth a slate of fake electors and usurp the 2020 presidential election, according to online court records.

essentialsaltes said:
Arizona judge sets 2026 trial date for Trump allies accused of trying to subvert the 2020 election

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-10T08:33:25-0600

Trump has pardoned them all (but these are all state crimes, so it has very little effect)

Updates: [quotes from individual state wiki pages]

Nevada:
Prosecutors refiled the charges in Carson City in December 2024 to resolve the venue issue. Because the statute of limitations for the filing false instruments charges had expired in December 2023, state prosecutors were not able to initiate a new case on those charges, although the forgery charges have a statute of limitations that is one year longer.

Georgia:
Sidney Powell, Ken Chesebro, Jenna Ellis and Scott Hall pled guilty, receiving years of probation, community service, and 4 figure restitution fines.

The trial for the 15 remaining defendants remained unscheduled while the Georgia Court of Appeals removed Fani Willis from the case and then while the Supreme Court of Georgia chose not to hear her appeal.

Mchigan:
On September 9, 2025, 54-A District Court Judge Kristen D. Simmons dismissed the charges against all 15 remaining defendants. She found that the prosecution had not presented enough evidence that the defendants had intention to commit fraud, as opposed to the ringleaders of the plot, who had not themselves been indicted.

Wisconsin:
In August 2025, the judge denied a motion to dismiss the case

In a civil case, the ten Trump electors reached a settlement with the plaintiffs on December 6, 2023, acknowledging that their votes were cast on December 14, 2020, at the behest of the Trump campaign and the Republican Party of Wisconsin, and were part of an effort to overturn the results of the 2020 election and disrupt the peaceful transition of power

Arizona:
On August 6, 2024, Loraine Pellegrino, one of 11 Arizona Republicans who falsely claimed to be legitimate presidential electors for Donald Trump, pled guilty to one count of filing a false instrument.[46] The deal included 3 years of unsupervised probation and no jail time.
On August 5, 2024, Jenna Ellis reached a cooperation agreement with Attorney General Kris Mayes. Ellis signed the agreement the same day.[48] All charges were dropped, and she must cooperate with the prosecution

New Mexico and Pennsylvania: these states' documents (unlike the 5 above) clearly outlined the slate was dependent on a judgment declaring Trump the winner. No charges were ever filed.

wing2000 · 2025-11-10T09:48:52-0600

essentialsaltes said:
Trump has pardoned them all (but these are all state crimes, so it has very little effect)

...warm fuzzies for his supporters?

friend of · 2025-11-10T12:51:06-0600

wing2000 said:
...warm fuzzies for his supporters?

Biden did the same thing

Say it aint so · 2025-11-10T12:55:20-0600

friend of said:
Biden did the same thing

No. Biden or no one in Biden's circle tried to steal the election. Yes, they did pardon people who were on Trump et al enemies list, and Trump et al are proving why that was. None of these people with Biden as president were even gone after by his DOJ.

essentialsaltes · 2025-11-10T13:26:35-0600

friend of said:
Biden did the same thing

It is hardly the same thing

Trump protected the people who tried to steal an election for him.
Biden protected the people investigating the people who tried to steal an election for Trump. (and his son)

wing2000 · 2025-11-10T13:59:06-0600

friend of said:
Biden did the same thing

Biden pardoned people who were convicted by state courts? Do tell...

friend of · 2025-11-10T16:52:22-0600

essentialsaltes said:
It is hardly the same thing

Trump protected the people who tried to steal an election for him.
Biden protected the people investigating the people who tried to steal an election for Trump. (and his son)

What about all the pardons Biden's autopen signed?

Trump campaign officials, led by Rudy Giuliani, oversaw fake electors plot in 7 states

Fact-Based Lifeform

Arizona fake electors led vocal campaign to overturn the 2020 election – they’re now part of a ‘robust’ state investigation​

Five vocal fake electors​

Fact-Based Lifeform

Trump’s Wisconsin Electors Admit Biden Won in Election Suit Settlement​

I march with Sherman

Trump’s Wisconsin Electors Admit Biden Won in Election Suit Settlement​

Fact-Based Lifeform

New evidence shows Trump's "fake electors" expressed legal reservations to Rudy Giuliani​

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Veteran

Fact-Based Lifeform

Exclusive: Recordings, emails show how Trump team flew fake elector ballots to DC in final push to overturn 2020 election​

Fact-Based Lifeform

Text messages shed new light on scope of fake electors plot after 2020 election​

Fact-Based Lifeform

Arizona fake electors led vocal campaign to overturn the 2020 election – they’re now part of a ‘robust’ state investigation​

Fact-Based Lifeform

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State

Fact-Based Lifeform

Nevada fake electors won't stand trial until January 2025 under judge's new schedule​

[Georgia] ‘No legal basis’: Trump RICO co-defendant loses motion to dismiss charges after arguing the indictment’s references to ‘false Electoral College votes’ were too prejudicial​

Michigan AG executes search warrants on Google and X in ongoing 2020 fake electors probe​

Arizona judge sets 2026 trial date for Trump allies accused of trying to subvert the 2020 election​

Fact-Based Lifeform

E pluribus unum

A private in Gods army

Well-Known Member

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