• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

SO HOW DO YOU KNOW YOU ARE SAVED ??

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
13,240
1,412
sg
✟281,543.00
Country
Singapore
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I am begotten by God. I did not do any work to be saved.

That means you believe salvation/eternal life, is by faith alone, without works.

Then I replied to BelieveItOarKnot of his comment that Jesus will reward those who give a cup of water to His brethren. The reward for blessing Jesus' brethren is the Matthew 25 judgment which corresponds to the Revelation white throne judgment. That judgment is for those who have blessed Jesus' brethren. None of us who are born of, adopted by, God will be judged at the white throne. Those of us who are born of God will live in heaven and have spiritual bodies. Those who enter eternal life from the white throne judgment will live on the new earth, not be allowed entry into heaven and still be flesh and blood. Yes, their work of blessing Jesus' brethren earned them a place on the new earth.

So to you, what differentiate your salvation from those who face the white throne judgement?

How come you could eternal life without works, but they had to bless Jesus's brethren to enter eternal life?
 
Upvote 0

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
Jun 2, 2024
1,740
183
71
Florida
✟69,108.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
AND Since being BORN AGAIN. , you have NEVER SINED ??

And do. you have a verse for that FEAT. ??

And you know where that ARENA IS WITH A VERSE ??

dan p
Simple principle Dan.

There's a person and THEN there's also the tempter or his own walking in the same pair of shoes

Don't know how anyone can read the Gospels and miss that fact, but then again denial is what devils do
 
Upvote 0

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
Jun 2, 2024
1,740
183
71
Florida
✟69,108.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
And you did not reply to the question in. post # 1. ??

dan p
What? You didn't like my cup of water never losing reward salvation citing?
 
Upvote 0

fli

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2005
523
87
82
missouri
✟460,537.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
That means you believe salvation/eternal life, is by faith alone, without works.



So to you, what differentiate your salvation from those who face the white throne judgement?
I obeyed God's rule to be blessed by Him with eternal life.

John 16:8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me; 10 of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; 11 of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged. NKJV

(By the way Dan Perez the Holy Spirit's conviction, to the world, above tells me that John 3:16 applies to me. Even without that, because John 3:16 and 17 specified that God did it for the world, not Just Israel. proves the promise is to the world. The only sin that sends people to hell is not believing that God sent Jesus to save them.)

The holy Spirit convicted me of my being a sinner because I did not believe in Jesus. The Holy Spirit convinced me that Jesus was the Son of God and that He died for my sins and was resurrected for my justification. He also told me that Satan and those who continued to believe Satan's lie, that God did not want us to be like Him, would be judged with Satan. So all I, and everyone who believed God, had to do was believe in Jesus and we would live eternally in Heaven.

How come you could eternal life without works, but they had to bless Jesus's brethren to enter eternal life?
They did not obey the rule to receive eternal life.

Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation. NKJV

The first-time men die, they die because of they are sinners. Those who die in Jesus are not sinners.

John 3:18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. NKJV

Above is the judgment for all the first time they die. There is no judgment for those who die in Jesus. Because when we die physically we are in Jesus and He was judged to be sinless. All those who die, the first time, not in Jesus are judged to be sinners and will be cast into hell. The first time they died they paid for their sins.

So, the first judgment is based only on believing in Jesus or not. However, they did qualify for consideration for being blessed at the white throne.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years. NKJV


At the rapture all the dead in Jesus will receive their new spiritual bodies and will reign with Jesus for a thousand years. After a 1000 years and a brief war God will resurrect the rest of the dead to be judged for their works.


Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." NKJV


Above are the criteria those who are judged at the white throne will be judged by. God made a promise to all the families of the earth they would be blessed by Abraham's seed. That was Jesus and Israel. All the world was blessed by Jesus because they were offered eternal life through His sacrifice. If they chose to not accept the offer God still offered them a chance to be blessed by Jesus at the white throne.

Mark 9:40 For he who is not against us is on our side. 41 For whoever gives you a cup of water to drink in My name, because you belong to Christ, assuredly, I say to you, he will by no means lose his reward. NKJV

Anyone not against Jesus, or His brethren (Israel) is offered eternal life on earth by Jesus when He judges them at the white throne. So, you can see Jesus died for the entire world. There were requirements for both offers. One, to believe, required no work. The other required that you are not against Jesus, which required work. Anyone against Jesus would cause continual war on the new earth, and those who were not against Jesus could not live in peace. I thank God that He has requirements for both.

Those who believe in Jesus their spiritual mind and the love of Jesus is perfected in them. That means they agree with God's laws and will abide by those laws. Because the love of Jesus is perfected in us, we all will love just as Jesus loved. He loved the Father as well as loved everyone else enough to die for them. With everyone in heaven loving like Jesus loved and obeying all the laws it will be heaven for everyone living there. Those who did not believe in Jesus could not have Jesus' love perfected in them. Without His love in them they would cause war in heaven.

For those who live on the earth I want them to be happy. If God let those who were against Jesus live on the earth they would resent God as well as those who were not in agreement with them. There would be continual war on the new earth. God has the rules for the good of those He will bless. The way the world is now without God being in charge, should convince everyone of the advisability of the need to have God in charge.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
13,240
1,412
sg
✟281,543.00
Country
Singapore
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
There were requirements for both offers. One, to believe, required no work. The other required that you are not against Jesus, which required work. Anyone against Jesus would cause continual war on the new earth, and those who were not against Jesus could not live in peace. I thank God that He has requirements for both.

So you are saying there are 2 different offers to eternal life at the same time?

"One, to believe, required no work", which you have.

"The other required that you are not against Jesus, which required work", which others have.

Why can't the others have the same offer you had?
 
Upvote 0

fli

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2005
523
87
82
missouri
✟460,537.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So you are saying there are 2 different offers to eternal life at the same time?

"One, to believe, required no work", which you have.

"The other required that you are not against Jesus, which required work", which others have.

Why can't the others have the same offer you had?
Everyone can take advantage of one or the other, although only the elect will succeed in believing in Jesus. The church does not teach both offers. The only one they tell people about is believe in Jesus to be saved.
 
Upvote 0

Guojing

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2019
13,240
1,412
sg
✟281,543.00
Country
Singapore
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The church does not teach both offers. The only one they tell people about is believe in Jesus to be saved.

So what do you mean by this?

There were requirements for both offers. One, to believe, required no work. The other required that you are not against Jesus, which required work. Anyone against Jesus would cause continual war on the new earth, and those who were not against Jesus could not live in peace. I thank God that He has requirements for both.
 
Upvote 0

BelieveItOarKnot

Rom 11:32-God bound everyone to disobedience so...
Jun 2, 2024
1,740
183
71
Florida
✟69,108.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Widowed
Matthew 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' 37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink? 38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' 40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.' NKJV

That is Jesus speaking and those granted eternal life from the white throne judgment earned it by being kind to Jesus' brethren.


The begotten of God are not Judged at the white throne. Those who die in Jesus were judged for sins when Jesus died. When they die physically in Jesus they are judged for rewards.



Matthew 25: 41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: NKJV

Neither Jesus or I are promoting burning the unsaved. Jesus is stating a fact. I believe Jesus whereas, you only choose what tickles your ears to believe.

Matthew 25:31 "When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. 34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in; 36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.' NKJV

That is the judgment where Jesus' saves all those deserving of Salvation.
Deserving? Clearly "all of Israel" shall be saved inclusive of enemies of the Gospel.

The individuals did exactly nothing to "deserve" their salvation. Romans 11:26-32 other than to be genetically lucky enough to have believing forefathers of faith.
Genesis 12:1 Now the Lord had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you. 2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing. 3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed." NKJV

That is the promise God made to save the world. All those who believed in Jesus would receive eternal life in heaven. Those who blessed Adram's descendants would be blessed by Him. They get eternal life on the earth in flesh bodies and cannot enter heaven.
The "Bible" tells me that anyone who loves knows God and is born of God, recipes and incantations involing Jesus, notwithstanding. There is no technical difference between Jesus/God and Love. Love of any kind comes from God to start with and, in addition to that, Jesus advised us that we ALL have ONE Father, God, in Matt. 23:9.

I'd suggest being saved is not complicated whatsoever using that measure, of 1 John 4:7, Matt. 23:9 and others such as Jesus actually being The Savior of the world who presumably gets the job done, and this not of ourselves.
Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. NKJV

He had to work to save His body.
Jesus was not saved by "works." He was and Is God, Perfect from before eternity and after.

"I Am" never changed nor did He have to.
 
Upvote 0

fli

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2005
523
87
82
missouri
✟460,537.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
So what do you mean by this?

The church is only required to teach and tell the world of salvation by being redeemed by Jesus. Every time I have heard a teaching about the white throne judgment is that no one is saved from the white throne judgment. The teaching that I have heard about the Matthew 25 judgment is Jesus judges people who enter the 1000 years when He sits on His throne on the earth.
Deserving? Clearly "all of Israel" shall be saved inclusive of enemies of the Gospel.

The individuals did exactly nothing to "deserve" their salvation. Romans 11:26-32 other than to be genetically lucky enough to have believing forefathers of faith.

The "Bible" tells me that anyone who loves knows God and is born of God, recipes and incantations involing Jesus, notwithstanding. There is no technical difference between Jesus/God and Love. Love of any kind comes from God to start with and, in addition to that, Jesus advised us that we ALL have ONE Father, God, in Matt. 23:9.

The New Testament begins when Jesus died. All that is said does not apply to the church. In Matthew 23:9 Jesus is speaking to the Israelis of His time on earth. Exodus 4:22 Israel was set aside as His people, His bride, and His children. It was not until the NT that we discovered not all Israel was Israel. Not all people on earth are His children. After Jesus died only those who believe in Jesus and walk in the Spirit are His children.

When did I ever mention any recipes or incantations? Please show me just where I cited anything other than scripture to justify my conclusions. Since you have accused me of this, I do expect you to prove it.
I'd suggest being saved is not complicated whatsoever using that measure, of 1 John 4:7, Matt. 23:9 and others such as Jesus actually being The Savior of the world who presumably gets the job done, and this not of ourselves.

Jesus was not saved by "works." He was and Is God, Perfect from before eternity and after.

"I Am" never changed nor did He have to.
I never said that Jesus was saved by His works. Jesus saved His body, the church, by His works.

Hebrews 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone. NKJV

Jesus suffered death, which He could have avoided as He never sinned. He suffered death so those who believed in Him did not suffer eternal death. Because He died in obedience to the Father's wish, God gave Him the right to save the world. He chose to save all who believed in Him (the redeemed, all true Israel) and also save those who showed Him and His brethren kindness (the white throne judgment). Two different groups.
 
Upvote 0

Dan Perez

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2018
4,714
401
88
Arcadia
✟266,749.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Simple principle Dan.

There's a person and THEN there's also the tempter or his own walking in the same pair of shoes

Don't know how anyone can read the Gospels and miss that fact, but then again denial is what devils do
An if I do not believe what the GOSPELS say. , Like LUKE. I am a DEVIL ??

Then If you do not be believe Rom 10:9. and 10. are you then. are you. a. CODSWALLOP. ??

dan p
 
Upvote 0