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CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.
Charlie Kirk & Christianity
- Thread starter redraven
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- Dec 3, 2006
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- Dec 3, 2006
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Akita Suggagaki
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I thought that war was supposed to be over on day one of his new administration.
Donald Trump has repeatedly said he could settle the war between Russia and Ukraine in one day if he’s elected president again.
Donald Trump has repeatedly said he could settle the war between Russia and Ukraine in one day if he’s elected president again.
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stevevw
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I guess it depends on what context you look at Kirk. He was political and Christian. But I am not sure they mix. I mean its hard to speak about Christian beliefs and values in todays society fullstop even if your not into politics.
In the past people could testify or proclaim their beliefs and this was echoing the braoder society because it was more God centered. Then Christianity was seen as just one of many beliefs in the public square where all beliefs were tolerated.
Now Christianity is like a trigger for a growing number and especially young people. So Kirk being able to more or less go into the lions den of secular ideas and politics was an amazing achievement. He had constant death threats. I could only imagine that someone who persists in putting themselves in such a situation had tremendous faith that he knew anytime he could be taken out.
In the past people could testify or proclaim their beliefs and this was echoing the braoder society because it was more God centered. Then Christianity was seen as just one of many beliefs in the public square where all beliefs were tolerated.
Now Christianity is like a trigger for a growing number and especially young people. So Kirk being able to more or less go into the lions den of secular ideas and politics was an amazing achievement. He had constant death threats. I could only imagine that someone who persists in putting themselves in such a situation had tremendous faith that he knew anytime he could be taken out.
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stevevw
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I think the framing of Kirk in terms of the political and the Christian is a false analogy. Selecting out specific comments as a representation of the whole person is wrong. A person can be a Christian and hold a misinformed opinion.
But if we just look more generally by the actions then we can see that at the very least Kirk was also engaging with people who opposed his beliefs. Regardless of which Christian was sitting there expressing Christian beliefs in such an environment will trigger some. If not many in a climate this is basically designed to hate Christian values in an increasing progressive culture.
This is evidence in that its not just Kirk but a growing number of those who hold similar beliefs. This was happening well before Kirks death.
But what I think has happened in relation to Christians is that this has impacted them and even frightened them. Not just Christians but anyone who held a similar belief or opinion. And we have seen the rise in political violence.
Kirks death was just a symptom of something bigger. A culture wide divide and war on ideological beliefs about how society and the world should be ordered.
In that sense I think this is causing Christians to rethink their beliefs. Or rather reprove their beliefs in that they are either for Christ or with the world. But also that they ensure to be as close to a good example of Christ in that we have seen that violence begets violence which is completely contradictory to Christ. In a time where Christianity is being tested those who are truely with Christ will become like Him.
But if we just look more generally by the actions then we can see that at the very least Kirk was also engaging with people who opposed his beliefs. Regardless of which Christian was sitting there expressing Christian beliefs in such an environment will trigger some. If not many in a climate this is basically designed to hate Christian values in an increasing progressive culture.
This is evidence in that its not just Kirk but a growing number of those who hold similar beliefs. This was happening well before Kirks death.
But what I think has happened in relation to Christians is that this has impacted them and even frightened them. Not just Christians but anyone who held a similar belief or opinion. And we have seen the rise in political violence.
Kirks death was just a symptom of something bigger. A culture wide divide and war on ideological beliefs about how society and the world should be ordered.
In that sense I think this is causing Christians to rethink their beliefs. Or rather reprove their beliefs in that they are either for Christ or with the world. But also that they ensure to be as close to a good example of Christ in that we have seen that violence begets violence which is completely contradictory to Christ. In a time where Christianity is being tested those who are truely with Christ will become like Him.
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Kirk didn't behave the way a Christian should behave. I don't view him as a Christian.
Deep down he struck me as someone who was both ignorant and deeply insecure.
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This is utter nonsense which excuses Kirk from the things he said. He said extremely offensive things time and time again.
Kirk is 100% responsibile for the comments he made and they are a reflection of his lack of character.
I personally believe he may have been mentally ill and should have seen a psychiatrist. He was suggesting public executions and other outrageous things. These cannot be ignored. Go look up on Youtube where he's talking about that and see for yourself.
He is someone who used Christianity as a cover for his bigoted opinions. In reality he did not behave like a Christian.
I wrote a few opinion pieces on Kirk after his passing. I was hoping they'd be published in a newspaper for broader readership.
I published them online nonetheless. Here is one which is more refined:
American Trump mouthpiece Charlie Kirk
was assassinated in an act of violence
that should be condemned. Having said this,
Mr. Kirk made many comments that were
deeply offensive and objectively untrue.
One such comment was his claim that Ukraine
was 'not a democracy', a view that misrepresents
reality. Charlie Kirk was in over his head on international
affairs. He was a Trump yes man. He naively
inspired a lot of animosity. Mr. Kirk
should not have been killed, but his views
were far too dogmatic and distorted by Trump
and Putin talking points. Mr. Kirk believed the Bible
was the ultimate truth. The Bible indicates that lying is sinful
and this is how Mr. Kirk spoke about Ukraine.
He had a large platform and used it irresponsibly.
Some people talk too much and study too little.
And here is one which is more blunt and to the point:
Charlie Kirk's rhetoric about Ukraine was more Satanic than in line with someone who followed Jesus. Charlie Kirk suggested that Putin had shown "extraordinary restraint".
Putin is a pedophile who has abducted 20 thousand Ukrainian children, murdered tens of thousands of innocent Ukrainians - many who have been tortured and burned alive. Putin's army is responsible for raping numerous women, castrating male soldiers and gouging their eyes out.
Yet according to Charlie Kirk, Putin showed extraordinary restraint.
Charlie Kirk was full of sh*t claiming to be a follower of Jesus Christ.
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stevevw
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This all sounds personal and subjective. So what about the many people who align with Kirk. Are they also not Christians.
Not that I am saying either opinion is correct but that this idea that some are not Christians and others are can be taken many ways dependning on a persons tilt whatever that is.
I think this is identity politics. Just like Kirk is not a true Christian belonging to the true Christian identity. There are other Christian identities within Christianity that war just like in secular society.
Like X politician is not a true Dem or Repulican or instead is a Nazi or white supremisist or Woke or Trans or a Women or male or black or Queer. Everything is determined by the identity and its ever changing morals and criteria for whats fits the moral and immoral identity of each group. According to the ideology they subscribe to.
Thats why I think as with the early church. Don't get too involved in the political arena. Just say the truth of the gospel warts and all and let people take it or leave it. Walk away. Don't get too bogged down in the politics and arguements as in the end its bel;ief and the spirit. Not some logical or reasoned arguement. Though that can dispell misconceptions many have today.
If they are interested they will come looking. God will be the one who awakens them. But if they are hostile Christ said pack up your stuff and go to the next town who may be more open.
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You say my comment is personal and subjective, but if you objectively look at how Kirk behaved - as I gave examples of earlier in the thread and as others have noted both in this thread and in many other forums, it's objectively true he often behaved contrary to the teachings of the bible and of Christ.
It sounds like you are saying I'm subjective because I condemn him for his behavior, yet his behavior is something which is objective.
When his behaviour objectively does not match what he claims to be - a Christian - then it is not subjective to say he didn't behave as a Christian.
This is not only the issue many have with Kirk, but the 'Christian faith' in general and all religion for that matter.
The behaviour should match the label. People cling to religion as a matter of convenience and cling to the faith when it is convenient for them while behaving in ways that clearly contradict the teachings of the faith they claim to be. Then they are seen as hypocrits and are no longer believable.
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