Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

HARK! · 2025-11-09T19:48:27-0600

Hentenza said:
And you continue to get it wrong.

I provided the evidence which you have failed to refute with evidence.

Simply denying it without any evidence for a refutation is not how logical arguments work.

Hentenza · 2025-11-09T20:03:55-0600

HARK! said:
I provided the evidence which you have failed to refute with evidence.

I’ve refuted every bit of it.

HARK! said:
Simply denying it without any evidence for a refutation is not how logical arguments work.

I have provided plenty of evidence. So I guess that means that you are not going to reply to any of my posts that I spend time replying to this morning? Like posts 320, 321, 324, 327, and 328?

HARK! · 2025-11-09T20:48:23-0600

Hentenza said:
It is quite clear but you are arguing the wrong side of the verse.

“But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, but it is the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe;

The verse is very clear that APART from the law the righteousness of God has been revealed. Did you get that part “apart from the law”?

So how do you reconcile your interpretation of that verse with this one?:

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Hentenza said:
Your secular definition of righteousness falls in light of the redemptive sacrifice of our Lord.

I didn't realize that divine law was secular.

(CLV) Dt 4:8
And what great nation is there which has statutes and ordinances so righteous as all this law that I am putting before you today?

(CLV) Pr 21:15
A rejoicing to the righteous one is the execution of right judgment, Yet an undoing to those who contrive| lawlessness.

(CLV) Pr 29:6
In the transgression of an evil man is a trap, Yet the righteous one may run and rejoice.

(CLV) Pr 29:16
When the wicked increase- transgression |increases, Yet the righteous shall see their downfall.

(CLV) Isa 29:20
For the terrifier will reach his limit, And the mocker will be finished, And all who are alert for lawlessness will be cut off,

(CLV) Isa 29:21
Those who make a person a sinner with a word, And for the arbitrator in the gateway they lay a trap And are turning aside the righteous into a chaos.

(CLV) Ezk 3:20
Again, when a righteous one turns back from his righteousness and does iniquity when I put a stumbling block before him, he shall die. If you do not warn him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous acts which he had done shall not be remembered, but his blood I shall seek to exact from your hand.

(CLV) Ezk 3:21
Yet you, if you do warn him, this righteous one, by no means to sin, and he, the righteous one, does not sin, he shall live, yea live for taking warning, and you will have rescued your soul.

(CLV) Ezk 18:9
He walks in My statutes and observes My ordinances, to do truth; he is righteous; he shall live, yea live, averring is my Lord Yahweh.

(CLV) Ezk 18:20
The soul that is sinning, it shall die; the son shall not bear the depravity of the father, and the father shall not bear the depravity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous one shall be reckoned onto him, and the wickedness of the wicked one shall be reckoned onto him.

(CLV) Ezk 18:24
Yet when the righteous one turns back from his righteousness and commits iniquity like all the abhorrences which the wicked one commits, shall he do so and live? All his righteous acts which he did shall not be remembered; in his offense with which he offended and in his sin with which he sinned, in them shall he die.

(CLV) Ezk 18:26
When the righteous one turns back from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he will die for it; in his iniquity which he commits he shall die.

(CLV) Ezk 33:12
Yet you, son of humanity, say to the sons of your people: The righteousness of the righteous one shall not rescue him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked one, he shall not be caused to stumble by it in the day he turns back from his wickedness, and the righteous one cannot live by it in the day he sins.

(CLV) Ho 14:9
Who is wise shall also understand these things. These being understood, he shall also acknowledge them. For upright are the ways of Yahweh, And the righteous, they shall walk in them. Yet the transgressors, they shall be stumbled in them.

(CLV) Am 2:6
Thus says Yahweh: Due to three transgressions of Israel, And due to four, I shall not turn it back, Because they sold the righteous for silver, And the needy for the sake of a pair of sandals;

HARK! · 2025-11-09T20:56:49-0600

Hentenza said:
I’ve refuted every bit of it.

Nope.

I refuted your failed attempts, or lack thereof, at refutations.

So far I have not seen anything that would indicate to me that you have even a rudimentary understanding of Ancient Hebrew.

HARK! · 2025-11-09T21:00:33-0600

Hentenza said:
So I guess that means that you are not going to reply to any of my posts that I spend time replying to this morning? Like posts 320, 321, 324, 327, and 328?

Wow!

Really?

I'm responding to your posts in the order that you posted them.

You'll have to be patient. I have other things going on in my life

HARK! · 2025-11-09T21:14:33-0600

Hentenza said:
This is about the birth of John the Baptist. How do these verses help you? Jesus was not even born yet so of course they were still under the law. Proper application of the elements of hermeneutics is important.

Because his parents were צדיק righteous/just before Yahshua was conceived in the womb.

You might like this one too.:

(CLV) Gn 6:9
These are the genealogical records of Noah. Noah was a righteous man; he became flawless in his generations; with the One, Elohim, Noah walked.

YHWH called people righteous many, many, times throughout scripture.

This one might help too.:

(CLV) Php 3:6
in relation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in relation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.

Fervent · 2025-11-09T21:24:02-0600

HIM said:
You don't see that the issue is using words and phrases that are not in the text. makes it a paraphrase or even worse a commentary.'

There are no English words in the text, and translation is not solving a cypher where you just swap words in one language for words in another. It doesn't make it a paraphrase, because a paraphrase is only a paraphrase if it uses a same-language Bible as its source. It's a dynamic equivalence translation, which is how true translations work.

HIM said:
But call it what you want. A spade is still a spade.

Your fallacious understanding of translation doesn't make your misuse of a word true.

HARK! · 2025-11-09T21:28:18-0600

Hentenza said:
works of the Law

(CLV) Ja 2:24
You see that by works a man is being justified, and not by faith only.

James, brother of Yahshua, of the inner circle of the Apostles, purported the head of the ecclessia after Yahshua's ascension, claims that works play a part in our justification, along with faith.

(CLV) Ro 3:28
For we are reckoning a man to be justified by faith apart from works of law.

Paul, a Torah scholar, having studied under Gamaliel, and sent by Yahshua from the road to Damascus that we are not justified by works of the law. I don't believe for a moment that Paul was contradicting James; or James would have surely corrected him.

Clearly works are different than works of the law.

(CLV) Ro 2:13
For not the listeners to law are just with God, but the doers of law shall be justified.

Here, Paul, in the same letter that the doers of the law will be justified. I don't believe for a moment that Paul is contradicting himself. I don't believe that he was suffering from mental dysfunction; and that he couldn't remember what he had written several paragraphs before.

Clearly the law, and works, are different than works of the law.

I don't see "Works of Law" mentioned in the Torah. I don't see any mention of it by Yahshua. Paul is the only one in the Bible to use this expression.

Where is Paul getting this?

It is mentioned up to 6 times, 4 times in Galatians, and maybe 2 times in Romans.
Galatians 2:16, 3:2, 3:5, 3:10 Romans 3:27, 9:32

It is also mentioned in the Qumran Scrolls.
Q394 (4QMMTa) 4QHalakhic Letter
Dead Sea Scrolls Project: 4QMMT

Definition of halacha
: the body of Jewish law supplementing the scriptural law and forming especially the legal part of the Talmud
Definition of HALACHA

Yahshua rebuked putting the traditions of men over the Torah. Yahshua kept the Torah and called us to follow his example. Paul followed yahshua's example and called us to follow his example.

Remember that dogma (such as the Talmud) was nailed to the torture stake, not Yah's eternal Torah.

Hentenza · 2025-11-10T09:15:58-0600

HARK! said:
So how do you reconcile your interpretation of that verse with this one?:

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Nothing to reconcile. The verse plainly teaches that the righteousness of those charged with teaching and keeping the law is not very good. But with Christ our righteousness abounds.

HARK! said:
I didn't realize that divine law was secular.

Your definition from Marriam Webster is.

HARK! said:
(CLV) Dt 4:8
And what great nation is there which has statutes and ordinances so righteous as all this law that I am putting before you today?

(CLV) Pr 21:15
A rejoicing to the righteous one is the execution of right judgment, Yet an undoing to those who contrive| lawlessness.

(CLV) Pr 29:6
In the transgression of an evil man is a trap, Yet the righteous one may run and rejoice.

(CLV) Pr 29:16
When the wicked increase- transgression |increases, Yet the righteous shall see their downfall.

(CLV) Isa 29:20
For the terrifier will reach his limit, And the mocker will be finished, And all who are alert for lawlessness will be cut off,

(CLV) Isa 29:21
Those who make a person a sinner with a word, And for the arbitrator in the gateway they lay a trap And are turning aside the righteous into a chaos.

(CLV) Ezk 3:20
Again, when a righteous one turns back from his righteousness and does iniquity when I put a stumbling block before him, he shall die. If you do not warn him, he shall die in his sin, and his righteous acts which he had done shall not be remembered, but his blood I shall seek to exact from your hand.

(CLV) Ezk 3:21
Yet you, if you do warn him, this righteous one, by no means to sin, and he, the righteous one, does not sin, he shall live, yea live for taking warning, and you will have rescued your soul.

(CLV) Ezk 18:9
He walks in My statutes and observes My ordinances, to do truth; he is righteous; he shall live, yea live, averring is my Lord Yahweh.

(CLV) Ezk 18:20
The soul that is sinning, it shall die; the son shall not bear the depravity of the father, and the father shall not bear the depravity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous one shall be reckoned onto him, and the wickedness of the wicked one shall be reckoned onto him.

(CLV) Ezk 18:24
Yet when the righteous one turns back from his righteousness and commits iniquity like all the abhorrences which the wicked one commits, shall he do so and live? All his righteous acts which he did shall not be remembered; in his offense with which he offended and in his sin with which he sinned, in them shall he die.

(CLV) Ezk 18:26
When the righteous one turns back from his righteousness and commits iniquity, he will die for it; in his iniquity which he commits he shall die.

(CLV) Ezk 33:12
Yet you, son of humanity, say to the sons of your people: The righteousness of the righteous one shall not rescue him in the day of his transgression; as for the wickedness of the wicked one, he shall not be caused to stumble by it in the day he turns back from his wickedness, and the righteous one cannot live by it in the day he sins.

(CLV) Ho 14:9
Who is wise shall also understand these things. These being understood, he shall also acknowledge them. For upright are the ways of Yahweh, And the righteous, they shall walk in them. Yet the transgressors, they shall be stumbled in them.

(CLV) Am 2:6
Thus says Yahweh: Due to three transgressions of Israel, And due to four, I shall not turn it back, Because they sold the righteous for silver, And the needy for the sake of a pair of sandals;

Great verses but spoken to Israel not the church. The church is not Israel.

Hentenza · 2025-11-10T09:18:11-0600

HARK! said:
Nope.

I refuted your failed attempts, or lack thereof, at refutations.

So far I have not seen anything that would indicate to me that you have even a rudimentary understanding of Ancient Hebrew.

Your opinion does not count. I have addressed and refuted every stitch of your interpretation that you have posted. Tell you what, point me to a post of yours that I have not addressed.

Hentenza · 2025-11-10T09:19:13-0600

HARK! said:
Wow!

Really?

I'm responding to your posts in the order that you posted them.

You'll have to be patient. I have other things going on in my life

Great thanks. Your post gave the impression that you were bailing out.

SabbathBlessings · 2025-11-10T09:26:13-0600

Hentenza said:
Your opinion does not count. I have addressed and refuted every stitch of your interpretation that you have posted. Tell you what, point me to a post of yours that I have not addressed.

Saying one disagrees with the Scriptures is not the same as them being refuted.

Hentenza · 2025-11-10T09:28:20-0600

HARK! said:
Because his parents were צדיק righteous/just before Yahshua was conceived in the womb.

Yep. God’s election to further His plan. But nothing here about the law and the church.

HARK! said:
You might like this one too.:

(CLV) Gn 6:9
These are the genealogical records of Noah. Noah was a righteous man; he became flawless in his generations; with the One, Elohim, Noah walked.

YHWH called people righteous many, many, times throughout scripture.

Great but told to Israel not to the church. The church is not Israel.

HARK! said:
This one might help too.:

(CLV) Php 3:6
in relation to zeal, persecuting the ecclesia, in relation to the righteousness which is in law, becoming blameless.

Thus I’d like shooting fish in a barrel. Did you not keep reading or even looked at what Paul was talking about here?

“although I myself could boast as having confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he is confident in the flesh, I have more reason: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the Law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to the righteousness which is in the Law, found blameless. But whatever things were gain to me, these things I have counted as loss because of Christ. More than that, I count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them mere rubbish, so that I may gain Christ, and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; if somehow I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭3‬:‭4‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Philippians 3:4-11 although I myself could boast as having confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he is confident in the flesh, I have more reason: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of th | New American Standard Bible

although I myself could boast as having confidence even in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he is confident in the flesh, I have more reason: circumcised the eighth day, of the nation of Israel, of th

bible.com

Verse 6 talks about how Paul used to be and verse 9 talks about how he is now. Paul was a Pharisee and delighted on the law but now he realizes that there is no righteousness on the law. So yes these verses might help you.

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Yes

No

Maybe

שמע

I will fear no evil for You are with me

שמע

שמע

שמע

שמע

Well-Known Member

שמע

I will fear no evil for You are with me

I will fear no evil for You are with me

I will fear no evil for You are with me

Well-Known Member

I will fear no evil for You are with me

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