The Thing Most Sabbath Keepers Do not Talk About.

Carl Emerson said:

The problem is that our orientation should be towards the Lord not the Law.

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The Lord is the one who said He puts His Laws in our hearts and minds Heb8:10m He eternalized them so they should be part of who we are if we love and cooperate with Him . So if our orientation was towards God, wouldn't we do what God is asking of us? You make it sound as if God is against His own Covenant Heb8:10. Do we tell God what His covenant and Laws are or does God tell us? This again seems to be the root of the issue here.

Carl Emerson said:

He set us free from the curse of the Law and we need to embrace His Life.

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Yes, not everyone accepts His free gift because they like their sins more than their love for Jesus John 3:19-21

Carl Emerson said:

Walking with Him in the Spirit more than fulfils the Law

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No one is walking in His Spirit by breaking His laws this is called being in the flesh and an enmity to God Rom8:7-8, this is what the Holy Spirit is trying to call us out from our rebellion, sin and disobedience if we hear Him Heb3:7-13. His Spirit is given to those who love John14:15-18 and obey Him Acts5:32. The Holy Spirit is not against the Laws He wrote on Stone and than placed them in our hearts and minds for His New Covenant believers. This whole argument that the Holy Spirit is against Gods owns Laws is not a biblical one Isa8:20

SabbathBlessings said:

So if our orientation was towards God, wouldn't we do what God is asking of us?

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Yes... exactly - obedience to the Spirit within fulfils every intent of the Law.

But we don't worship the Law as the Jews do, even today.

Sadly some among us refuse to move on.

Carl Emerson said:

Yes... exactly obedience to the Spirit within fulfils every intent of the Law.

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Not if we are disobeying them. 1John3:4 James2:11 Heb10:26-30

That's why not every believer who says Lord Lord will enter His Kingdom according to Jesus Mat7:21-23 Rev22:14-15 1John2:3-4

SabbathBlessings said:

Not if we are disobeying them. 1John3:4 James2:11 Heb10:26-30

That's why not every believer who says Lord Lord will enter His Kingdom according to Jesus Mat7:21-23 Rev22:14-15 1John2:3-4

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How can obeying the Spirit possibly violate the intent of the Law ?

Jesus was watching what the Father was doing in order to see the way of righteousness.

The Law was never able to be a substitute for the personal Word of God to the believer.

Carl Emerson said:

How can obeying the Spirit possibly violate the intent of the Law ?

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The Spirit is the One who wrote the law of God in the believers heart. Heb8:10 Not obeying the law of God is not someone who is abiding in the Spirit.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We receive the Holy Spirit on the condition if we love Him and keep His commandments He enables us to do this, but it first requires our cooperation.

John 14: 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

So if we are arguing against the Law of God and what He wrote in our hearts, His laws, than we should consider more time in prayer asking God to change our will for His will and change our heart from stone to a heart of flesh Eze 36:26 to receive what He writes on our hearts and be willing to do so.

SabbathBlessings said:

The Spirit is the One who wrote the law of God in the believers heart. Heb8:10 Not obeying the law of God is not someone who is abiding in the Spirit.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

We receive the Holy Spirit on the condition if we love Him and keep His commandments

John 14: 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

So if we are arguing against the Law of God and what He wrote in our hearts, His laws, than we should consider more time in prayer asking God to change our will for His will and be willing to do so.

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Sorry but you didn't respond to my question...

How can obeying the Spirit possibly violate the intent of the Law ?

Carl Emerson said:

Sorry but you didn't respond to my question...

How can obeying the Spirit possibly violate the intent of the Law ?

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I did. You just don't seem to like the answer the Scriptures tell us plainly. I know it sounds good to think we are abiding in His Spirit without obeying His laws, but the Scriptures clearly says something different.

That's about all I can do post the Scripture, so I will just agree to disagree and it will get sorted out in God's time.

Be well.

SabbathBlessings said:

I know it sounds good to think we are abiding in His Spirit without obeying His laws

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I have been careful not to say that.

But obeying Laws is not enough - Jesus said that to the rich young ruler.

Give to the poor and follow me was the requirement.

But you continue to put the cart before the horse - you don't speak of the essential component in obedience which is to follow Jesus. All you can present is following Law - not following Jesus - that is a serious error.

Carl Emerson said:

I have been careful not to say that.

But obeying Laws is not enough - Jesus said that to the rich young ruler.

Give to the poor and follow me was the requirement.

But you continue to put the cart before the horse - you don't speak of the essential component in obedience which is to follow Jesus. All you can present is following Law - not following Jesus - that is a serious error.

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The rich young ruler went away sad, because while he was obeying the commandments to love our neighbor, he neglected the commandments to love God and placed his great riches over following God, breaking the very first commandment. Exo20:3. No where in this teaching did Jesus say obeying the commandments was not enough or not what he should be doing. He said the opposite if we want to enter into life, keep the commandments and started quoting from the Ten Commandments. Mat 19:17-19

Jesus followed and obeyed the commandments, John15:10 so you keep saying we should follow the Lord , but in doing that one would be keeping the commandments and obeying what the Lord asks of us.

Did Jesus put the cart before the horse by asking IF you love Me, keep My commandments and then He will give us the Helper? When one has a harden heart to the law of God, He has nowhere to place His Spirit enabling the believer to keep what He placed in the heart, what God wrote in the heart, His laws, right where sin begins. God will never force Himself on us, we have to let Him in and cooperate with Him. So no, our decision to obey God because we love Him comes first before the Spirit abides in us.

Why these are all conditional….

1 John3: 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

John 15:10 If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love.
1 John2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

John 14: 15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

Acts 5:32 And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him.”

You keep arguing from your own perspective and ideas, I think we need to get back to what the Bible says, the Bible is clear on this matter.

SabbathBlessings said:

The rich young ruler went away sad, because while he was obeying the commandments to love our neighbor, he neglected the commandments to love God and placed his great riches over following God

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Jesus said he knew the Commandments.

Scripture doesn't support the suggestion he didn't.

Do you think he was lying when he claimed he kept them ? ?

Carl Emerson said:

Then how do you understand Galatians 3? Why was he rebuking them when he said...

10 For all who are of works of the Law are under a curse. ???

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Studyman said:

This is the foundation of your error, that the Pharisees were trying get the Galatians to obey God's Laws.

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Galatians 3 is understood by understanding the immediate context of the passage and over all premise of the letter.
The Faith of Abraham and we the church having this same faith and how it relates to the Gospel is the immediate context and premise of the letter. If we go back to chapter 1 verses 5-8 we see that the Gospel is that Jesus died for our sins that we be delivered from this PRESENT evil world according to the will of our Father God.

Gal 1:4 Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:
Gal 1:5 To whom [be] glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

As we continue we see in verses that this Gospel of Jesus giving Himself for our sins to deliver us from this present evil age was through a revelation of Jesus Christ.

Gal 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

As we move further along we see when it pleased God, at the time He seen fit He called Paul by His grace. And that this revelation of Jesus Christ was a revealing of Christ in Paul, so that Paul might preach the Gospel of him that they delivered from this present evil world.

Gal 1:15 But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace,
Gal 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

And In this revelation, this revealing of Christ in Paul so that he might preach this Gospel of Christ that delivers us from this present evil world. God was seen in Paul by those who were in Christ experiencing this deliverance that Paul himself was experiencing and those who seen this glorified God and His power and grace seeing God working in him.

Gal 1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:
Gal 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
Gal 1:24 And they glorified God in me.

Before we continue, Amen?