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DOGE cuts to the NOAA risks lives

Hans Blaster

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Those tornadoes and hurricanes will continue to happen regardless to who is in office or how much funding NOAA gets. NOAA can't predict that such-and-such a location will likely see a tornado. The best it can to is to pick up signatures in Doppler radar or rely on eyewitness reports, and then hope they can get the word out. The latter isn't as easy as you may think.
And that's why the NWS needs staff to measure and interpret the data *during* the storm.
Weather radio coverage is spotty, and our offer to host a transmitter was panned years ago, so that coverage isn't going to improve for us. And guess what: county/parish wide tornado sirens are the exception, not the norm.
That failure is on the county, not the NWS.
 
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Tuur

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You know we are only talking about a matter of months, correct? It has only been 4 1/2 months since Trump was inaugurated, and the cuts and chaos created by DOGE was after that. Why would NWS curtail an experimental product right off? Trump seems to reverse himself or back down a lot.
Predicting the course of hurricanes is not an exact science. Nature can throw us for a loop . The information given last year was very good.
The DOGE cuts will make it harder.
Odd. When the government shuts down, all sorts of things immediately cease. Even those automated stations (which is odd because no one has to be on site to maintain them). Yet this experimental product keeps chugging along.

That experimental product make a quick and easy reference to the state of things. If things are as dire as claimed, pulling the plug on it is trivial. why pull it, you ask? Because, unlike an automated station, it takes someone to do it. As long as it's in operation, that means there's enough people that they can spare time for an experimental product.

As for the information the NHC gave last year being "very good," having lived through it I strongly disagree.
 
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Tuur

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My brother lives in southern Michigan and said they already had 27 tornadoes this year, and that this has been the most active season for them since 1950. He then went on to complain about the lack of FEMA help. Could be because of cuts to FEMA.
FEMA literally doesn't work how many thinks it does for the simple reason it's not designed that way. To see why, we have to go back to the 1970s, when Civil Defense was allowed to languish, and efforts to revive it were stymied by fears the Soviets would think the US was preparing for a first strike. The work-around was FEMA, which doesn't pre-position resources like CD did and wasn't self-starting. That's by design, so it couldn't function if there was a nuclear war. That way, it was thought, it wouldn't make the Soviets nervous.

I've worked at an electric utility for over forty years. In every natural disaster I witnessed, it took several days for FEMA to show up. I saw FEMA come around and reimburse utilities and likely others after the fact, and see to this and that afterward, but have never seen it immediately there following a disaster. That's not a criticism: that's how FEMA functions.

In the hours after Hurricane Helene, I tried to get to work only to find the roads blocked by trees and power lines. After someone ran into a downed wire and snapped it, was able to get out and went to check on a family member we couldn't reach by phone or cell service. Land lines and cell phones were out. This is a rural area, and more than once, where a tree wasn't contacting a power line, found locals clearing the roads. Being rural, we have tractors and chainsaws. Finally made it through, found the family member was okay (they had slept through it and had no damage visible from the house - they were in that "pocket" I may have mentioned before, and I attribute that to God. From that point was able to make it in to work only to find hardly anyone else could. By that time there were state highway crews on the main roads, and had some stuff moved where you could at least drive around them, though on the shoulder of the road in several places. What line crews could get in were working where the damage was least. We're talking about rebuilding things from the substations on out, and there were also transmission lines that were down.

Work-wise, it was a matter of getting help. We had some come in from as far away as Missouri. FEMA wasn't involved in this, but then, that's not FEMA's job. We did assessments. FEMA does like utilities to do those before getting someone in, likely to prevent fraud, unless there's a pre-existing agreements. On a personal note, the day after Helene, we had to drive elsewhere to get supplies we normally would have stocked up on had the forecast called for hurricane force winds. Note: Though I had filled up the vehicles prior to Helene, ever since I don't like them to get very low.

By Monday, I saw state officials. We had the first outside crews coming in. We had churches helping from I don't know how far away. I think the Salvation Army was set up by noon that day. I didn't see FEMA, but again, that's not a criticism. That's not what FEMA does.

From that point on, I'm not sure when FEMA arrived. It was that Monday or Tuesday that someone came by the house and let us know where we could get a meal, but that wasn't FEMA. My memory is hazy, what with all that was going on. By Thursday or Friday, I think that's when information signs started appearing at intersections with things like where to get emergency assistance and how to contact FEMA. I know that FEMA eventually did show up, but wasn't the first ones in. I know it's tiresome to read me write this, but that's not FEMA's job.

FEMA did come by the house. We were blessed and had very little damage, so we didn't file on insurance or apply for assistance. It could have been as much as a month later, but not sure. Those public information signs telling how to contact FEMA had been up two or more weeks, so I guess this was to help those who still weren't aware of it.

So, what did FEMA do? Remember how I characterized FEMA as coming around with a check after the fact? I think FEMA paid for the companies that came in and removed storm debris from the sides of the road. Given the level of destruction, that was a non-trivial effort. I know they gave assistance to some with homes, as I've seen the locate tickets for tie-down installation. You could apply for financial assistance for things insurance wouldn't cover. I'm sure they reimbursed utilities for the material and labor for power restoration, as they've done that before. I suspect they funded other things, but since I haven't talked with anyone from FEMA, I don't know for sure.

A few more personal notes: I'm very appreciative of the churches that came and helped. They helped with hot meals, and things you need during a natural disaster. It was a big help and very appreciated.

This was also the first time in over forty years that we had people appreciative of us getting the power back on. There's always some that are, but there's always some who complain. I guess they could see the damage and know what we faced, and could see the crews working as hard as they could. That, too, was very appreciated.

Do we need to go back to the CD model? It has some advantages as you have material and equipment pre-positioned ahead of disasters.
 
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FreeinChrist

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FEMA literally doesn't work how many thinks it does for the simple reason it's not designed that way. To see why, we have to go back to the 1970s, when Civil Defense was allowed to languish, and efforts to revive it were stymied by fears the Soviets would think the US was preparing for a first strike. The work-around was FEMA, which doesn't pre-position resources like CD did and wasn't self-starting. That's by design, so it couldn't function if there was a nuclear war. That way, it was thought, it wouldn't make the Soviets nervous.

I've worked at an electric utility for over forty years. In every natural disaster I witnessed, it took several days for FEMA to show up. I saw FEMA come around and reimburse utilities and likely others after the fact, and see to this and that afterward, but have never seen it immediately there following a disaster. That's not a criticism: that's how FEMA functions.

In the hours after Hurricane Helene, I tried to get to work only to find the roads blocked by trees and power lines. After someone ran into a downed wire and snapped it, was able to get out and went to check on a family member we couldn't reach by phone or cell service. Land lines and cell phones were out. This is a rural area, and more than once, where a tree wasn't contacting a power line, found locals clearing the roads. Being rural, we have tractors and chainsaws. Finally made it through, found the family member was okay (they had slept through it and had no damage visible from the house - they were in that "pocket" I may have mentioned before, and I attribute that to God. From that point was able to make it in to work only to find hardly anyone else could. By that time there were state highway crews on the main roads, and had some stuff moved where you could at least drive around them, though on the shoulder of the road in several places. What line crews could get in were working where the damage was least. We're talking about rebuilding things from the substations on out, and there were also transmission lines that were down.

Work-wise, it was a matter of getting help. We had some come in from as far away as Missouri. FEMA wasn't involved in this, but then, that's not FEMA's job. We did assessments. FEMA does like utilities to do those before getting someone in, likely to prevent fraud, unless there's a pre-existing agreements. On a personal note, the day after Helene, we had to drive elsewhere to get supplies we normally would have stocked up on had the forecast called for hurricane force winds. Note: Though I had filled up the vehicles prior to Helene, ever since I don't like them to get very low.

By Monday, I saw state officials. We had the first outside crews coming in. We had churches helping from I don't know how far away. I think the Salvation Army was set up by noon that day. I didn't see FEMA, but again, that's not a criticism. That's not what FEMA does.

From that point on, I'm not sure when FEMA arrived. It was that Monday or Tuesday that someone came by the house and let us know where we could get a meal, but that wasn't FEMA. My memory is hazy, what with all that was going on. By Thursday or Friday, I think that's when information signs started appearing at intersections with things like where to get emergency assistance and how to contact FEMA. I know that FEMA eventually did show up, but wasn't the first ones in. I know it's tiresome to read me write this, but that's not FEMA's job.

FEMA did come by the house. We were blessed and had very little damage, so we didn't file on insurance or apply for assistance. It could have been as much as a month later, but not sure. Those public information signs telling how to contact FEMA had been up two or more weeks, so I guess this was to help those who still weren't aware of it.

So, what did FEMA do? Remember how I characterized FEMA as coming around with a check after the fact? I think FEMA paid for the companies that came in and removed storm debris from the sides of the road. Given the level of destruction, that was a non-trivial effort. I know they gave assistance to some with homes, as I've seen the locate tickets for tie-down installation. You could apply for financial assistance for things insurance wouldn't cover. I'm sure they reimbursed utilities for the material and labor for power restoration, as they've done that before. I suspect they funded other things, but since I haven't talked with anyone from FEMA, I don't know for sure.

A few more personal notes: I'm very appreciative of the churches that came and helped. They helped with hot meals, and things you need during a natural disaster. It was a big help and very appreciated.

This was also the first time in over forty years that we had people appreciative of us getting the power back on. There's always some that are, but there's always some who complain. I guess they could see the damage and know what we faced, and could see the crews working as hard as they could. That, too, was very appreciated.

Do we need to go back to the CD model? It has some advantages as you have material and equipment pre-positioned ahead of disasters.
And I explained to my brother that some of the situations he was referring to do not involve FEMA.

He did mention that when there is hurricane damage in Florida, full time residents get served first per the folks he talked to who live there, then help those who have a second home there. I can't see anything improving by cutting funding and people.
 
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probinson

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I've never witness a politicized rant, while I was watching the weather report. Maybe you should watch another news channel.

Neither have I, until I watched the clip in the OP.
 
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essentialsaltes

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U.S. tsunami warning system, reeling from funding and staffing cuts, is dealt another blow

Seismic monitoring stations in Alaska are closing after a denied federal grant, risking delayed tsunami warnings for people living on the West Coast.

Nine seismic stations in Alaska are set to go dark this month, leaving tsunami forecasters without important data used to determine whether an earthquake will send a destructive wave barreling toward the West Coast.

The stations relied on a federal grant that lapsed last year; this fall, the Trump administration declined to renew it. A NOAA grant for about $300,000 each year had supported the stations.

The U.S. has two tsunami warning centers — one in Palmer, Alaska, and the other in Honolulu — that operate around-the-clock making predictions that help emergency managers determine whether coastal evacuations are necessary after an earthquake. The data from Alaska’s seismic stations has historically fed into the centers.

Both centers are already short-staffed.

Additionally, the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration has decreased funding for the National Tsunami Hazard Mitigation Program, which pays for the majority of states’ tsunami risk reduction work.

On top of that, NOAA laid off the National Weather Service’s tsunami program manager, Corina Allen, as part of the Trump administration’s firing of probationary workers in February, according to Harold Tobin, the Washington state seismologist. A
 
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DaisyDay

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U.S. tsunami warning system, reeling from funding and staffing cuts, is dealt another blow

Seismic monitoring stations in Alaska are closing after a denied federal grant, risking delayed tsunami warnings for people living on the West Coast.

Nine seismic stations in Alaska are set to go dark this month, leaving tsunami forecasters without important data used to determine whether an earthquake will send a destructive wave barreling toward the West Coast.

The stations relied on a federal grant that lapsed last year; this fall, the Trump administration declined to renew it. A NOAA grant for about $300,000 each year had supported the stations.

The U.S. has two tsunami warning centers — one in Palmer, Alaska, and the other in Honolulu — that operate around-the-clock making predictions that help emergency managers determine whether coastal evacuations are necessary after an earthquake. The data from Alaska’s seismic stations has historically fed into the centers.

Both centers are already short-staffed.

Additionally, the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration has decreased funding for the National Tsunami Hazard Mitigation Program, which pays for the majority of states’ tsunami risk reduction work.

On top of that, NOAA laid off the National Weather Service’s tsunami program manager, Corina Allen, as part of the Trump administration’s firing of probationary workers in February, according to Harold Tobin, the Washington state seismologist. A
They really took a wrecking ball to the government but it's not like we were not warned.
 
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Lukaris

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Yet funding was cut during the Biden administration and 9 NOAA stations were decommissioned in 2013.

Per NBC news:


NOAA grant for about $300,000 each year had supported the stations. The Alaska Earthquake Center requested new grant funding through 2028, but it was denied, according to an email between West and NOAA staffers that was viewed by NBC News.

Kim Doster, a NOAA spokeswoman, said the federal agency stopped providing the money in 2024 under the Biden administration. In th


Per NBC news:


NOAA helped build many of the seismic stations that have been part of the Alaska Earthquake Center’s network. But West said the agency has decreased its support over the past two decades; nine NOAA-built stations were decommissioned in 2013.




Plus their seems to be new emerging technology in tsunami wave detection being applied by NASA.


 
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essentialsaltes

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