Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Hentenza said:

“But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;”
‭‭John‬ ‭16‬:‭7‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 16:7-9 But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict th | New American Standard Bible - NASB

But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. And He, when He comes, will convict th

bible.com

The Spirit now convicts us not the law. Sorry that you are missing such plain scriptures. My interpretation does not add tension to the scriptures but yours adds huge tension, therefore, your interpretation is wrong.

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Sin is transgression of the law, even if we choose not to believe it.

1 John3:4 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Any of the Ten Commandments

James 2:11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

Its what Paul said:
Rom 7:7 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

All NC Scriptures. Scripture doesn't delete Scripture it explains it, if we allow it to.

PloverWing said:

The Jerusalem Council (Acts 15) ruled that Gentiles do not have to convert to Judaism to become Christians, and Paul's letters are consistent with this ruling.

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What is Judaism? You imply in this post that the Pharisees were "Judaizers". The Jesus "of the Bible", the Law and Prophets and Paul himself teaches us that the Pharisees "Full well rejected the Commandments of God", that they might live by and promote their own religious traditions. Jesus said of them;

Matt. 5: 7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments "of men". (Not God as is widely promoted by the mainstream preachers of our time)

Paul said of the Pharisees that they, "being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about "to establish their own righteousness", have "not submitted themselves" unto the righteousness of God.

Paul taught Jew and Gentile;

Rom. 6: 12 Let not sin (transgression of the law) therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but "yield yourselves" unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members "as instruments of righteousness unto God".

Jesus said of the Pharisees that they claimed to trust Moses, and that they received God's " holy, and just, and good" Laws from Moses, but they refused to keep them. He said they "Say they keep them", but do not.

He said of them:

Matt. 23: 4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and "lay them on men's shoulders"; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

So then, a "Judaizer", if the Pharisees were "Judaizers" as you imply, and I agree with with you that they were, is a religious man or group who "professed to know God", or as Jesus Himself said of the future, "Call Jesus Lord, Lord, but rejects God's Judgments and Commandments, choosing instead to live by and push onto the backs of men, their own man-made Judgments and Commandments and Traditions.

I agree that in Acts 15, the Disciples truly worked to keep the new converts away from the mainstream preachers of that time, and away from the doctrines, philosophies and traditions of the Pharisees, or as you call them, "Judaizers". This is evident in Peter's rebuke of them.

Acts 15: 10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to "put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples", (Matt. 23:4) which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

Instead, here is what the Disciples taught the Gentile converts to abstain from right then.

18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles "are turned to God"

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, (Law of Moses) and from fornication, (Law of Moses) and from things strangled, (Law of Moses) and from blood. (Law of Moses)

And these Gentiles would learn more about the Gospel many of the Israelites were given in the wilderness, but rejected, by hearing the Word's Jesus said to "Live by".

21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.

So I certainly agree with you that the Disciples in Acts 15, turned the Gentile Converts away from the doctrines, traditions and judgments of the Mainstream religions of the world in their time, that you call "Judaism", and steered them to Moses instead, as Jesus Himself did for the multitudes and His Disciples in Matt. 23:1-3.

And another note; as Prophesied, God has delivered HIS Oracles into the homes of anyone who wants to truly know Him and His Son. We no longer are required to go to a man-made shrine of worship, and be taught of men what the Word of God says. We have them in our own home, in our own mind. We now sit, in Moses Seat.

All we need is belief in this God's Words, like Abraham. And Jesus makes this possible by wiping our slate clean. Now we can turn away from this world's religions, their man-made high days, Judgments, commandments, traditions and philosophies, and "Yield ourselves" to God and yield our bodies "as instruments of righteousness" unto God.

Hentenza said:

So you doubt the Spirit in favor of the law? Good luck with that.

Acts 7:51-53 “You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute | New American Standard Bible - NASB

“You men who are stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears are always resisting the Holy Spirit; you are doing just as your fathers did. Which one of the prophets did your fathers not persecute

bible.com

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Non-responsive to what Scripture says sin is that the holy Spirit convicts us of if we hear His voice Heb3:7-13

The Holy Spirit wrote God's Laws and enables the Christian who loves God to keep them. Not sure why you think the Holy Spirit is against His own Laws. Its a strange argument

John 14:15 “If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another [e]Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.

BobRyan said:

it does if one is not willing to eisegete it into the text.

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That's baloney, because for those who can do exegesis and full blown hermeneutics, we know that multi-layered connections of contexts have to be additionally, and painstakenly, accounted for. And when we do so, SOMETIMES we see relevant applications of meaning that are neither allegorical nor what the author himself stated on a prima facie level.

BobRyan said:

Only if you can show that they never debated anything but the Sabbath.

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Unfortunately, the 'Word of God' isn't utterly comprehensive in all of its explicit meanings, so no one, not even the Messianic, nor the SDA, in fact, NO ONE from any denomination or tradition, gets to have the 'final word' on what the Bible means.

Epistemology and human limits just cause our attempts to clearly and fully understand the Bible to falter like that, and this is the case for everyone.

BobRyan said:

As it is, we see both Jews AND Gentiles in the Synagogues for worship "Every Sabbath" including Paul, in Acts 18:4

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Citing that this is an example of exactly and only what it is you think it means ........is an example of eisegesis.

BobRyan said:

And in Acts 13 gentiles who hear Paul's gospel ask for "MORE Gospel" preaching to be scheduled for them "The NEXT Sabbath" rather than "Tomorrow, Sunday", week day 1"

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Again, citing that this is an example of exactly and only what it is you think it means is an example of eisegesis.

Studyman said:

What is Judaism?

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Judaism is a religion whose adherents follow the laws listed in the Pentateuch (Genesis through Deuteronomy) as an expression of their covenant with God. Christianity grew out of Judaism, but the two religions diverged in the first couple of centuries AD.

Jesus and most of his first disciples were Jewish. After his death and resurrection, large numbers of Gentiles also wanted to become followers of Jesus. One of the major questions the first-century church faced was whether these Gentiles needed to convert fully to Judaism in order to become part of the Christian community -- did their men have to be circumcised, did they have to follow the dietary rules, and so forth. We see this question being debated in Acts and in Paul's letters. In the end, the church's decision was that no, converts to Christianity did not have to follow the laws of the Jewish covenant.

Regarding the rest of your post: It looks like you and I have very different views of both Judaism and Christianity, so I'm inclined to quietly part ways rather than dive into an extended argument.

BobRyan said:

John 16:2 Jesus said that people will claim god is approving of things that He does not approve of.

"2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. 3 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. "

This helps explain the outstanding enthusiasm Saul had in his persecution of Christians

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Thanks for accusing me of that i guess......

SabbathBlessings said:

When did that help anyone during the days of Noah. God never goes by the majority He tells us this in His own words that the majority are wrong. Mat7:13-14

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Ironically, during the time of Jesus, the majority of the Jews worshipped on the Sabbath and they took the Sabbath very seriously.

Taking it in context, Jesus is more likely referring to His time (2000 years ago) and Matthew 7:13-14 among the Jewish population only. The majority of the Jews voted to have Jesus crucified and most certainly, Matthew 7:13-14 is addressed to the Jews.

Ofc, those verses are also applicable to the entire world but context and relevance to this thread strongly points towards the Jews. You can't say the entire Jewish population is the "good few" against the rest of humanity across the planet because the majority of the Jews voted to have Jesus crucified.

So who are the majority in Matthew 7:13-14? The Mosaic-Law-fanatic Jews?

timewerx said:

Ironically, during the time of Jesus, the majority of the Jews worshipped on the Sabbath and they took the Sabbath very seriously.

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It wasn't God's Sabbath they were keeping why Jesus was constantly correcting them.

timewerx said:

Taking it in context, Jesus is more likely referring to His time (2000 years ago) and Matthew 7:13-14 among the Jewish population only. The majority of the Jews voted to have Jesus crucified and most certainly, Matthew 7:13-14 is addressed to the Jews.

Ofc, those verses are also applicable to the entire world but context and relevance to this thread strongly points towards the Jews. You can't say the entire Jewish population is the "good few" against the rest of humanity across the planet because the majority of the Jews voted to have Jesus crucified.

So who are the majority in Matthew 7:13-14? The Mosaic-Law-fanatic Jews?

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You can believe that if you wish, I beleive He meant exactly as what He said.

SabbathBlessings said:

When did that help anyone during the days of Noah

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God had no intention at that time to save the majority regardless. His plan only included saving Noah and his family. I know many claim that Noah warned people, etc about the flood but that is not biblical. God told Noah he was going to destroy them.

JulieB67 said:

God had no intention at that time to save the majority regardless. His plan only included saving Noah and his family. I know many claim that Noah warned people, etc about the flood but that is not biblical. God told Noah he was going to destroy them.

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I think we must have a different understanding of the character of God.

The One I know would give everyone a chance to repent, He is longsuffering and raises messengers and prophets to get people back to His word. He is not a respecter of person (shows no favoritisms), while He is longsuffering, He shows He has a limit when one has harden their heart where nothing is going to sway that person from their unbelief which is disobedience and sin .

Noah was a preacher of righteousness, meaning he preached

2 Peter 2:5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;

Heb 11:7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.

I do not beleive for one second that Noah didn't preach to the world to repent. If you beleive that he didn't just only focused on saving his family, that's fine, I do not believe that fits with the character of God or someone who preaches Christ's righteousness (right doing).

Hentenza said:

Did He give Ananias and his wife Sapphira a chance to repent? Sometimes actions have consequences.

“But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and kept back some of the proceeds for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles’ feet. But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the proceeds of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God.” And as he heard these words, Ananias collapsed and died; and great fear came over all who heard about it. The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him. Now an interval of about three hours elapsed, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. And Peter responded to her, “Tell me whether you sold the land for this price?” And she said, “Yes, for that price.” Then Peter said to her, “Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well.” And immediately she collapsed at his feet and died; and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. And great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard about these things.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Acts 5:1-11 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and kept back some of the proceeds for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at t | New American Standard Bible - NASB

But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, and kept back some of the proceeds for himself, with his wife’s full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at t

bible.com

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God can read the heart, it doesn't tell you everything about every story in the Bible. The Bible works on principles and His character does not change. I beleive He gave Lucifer lots of chances to repent, before he was kicked out of heaven. How much does he tell us to forgive people Matthew 18:21-22 I do not beleive Jesus ever holds other people to a higher standard than He holds Himself, since we are made in the image of God. But you are free to beleive as you wish.

SabbathBlessings said:

It wasn't God's Sabbath they were keeping why Jesus was constantly correcting them.

You can believe that if you wish, I beleive He meant exactly as what He said.

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John 5:17
In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

You're saying the Jews are wrong for believing that God rested on the 7th day and kept the day holy?

timewerx said:

John 5:17
In his defense Jesus said to them, “My Father is always at his work to this very day, and I too am working.”

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Yes, Jesus is always working for the good of mankind, but that does not change Gen 2:1-3 Exo20:11 Heb4:4. His work for mankind is never secular, much like the priests who worked on the Sabbath doing the work of God was never a sin.

timewerx said:

You're saying the Jews are wrong for believing that God rested on the 7th day and kept the day holy?

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They didn't keep God's Sabbath, they kept their own, why Jesus was constantly correcting them over the Sabbath. They didn't keep God's commandments Rom2:21-23, they kept their man-made traditions over the commandments of God which Jesus condemned Mat15:1-14 Mark7:7-13

Hentenza said:

But Ananias and his wife cannot read hearts or the mind of God. God did as God wanted but both of them did not have the time to repent. Peter told him and he dropped dead. Peter told the wife and she dropped dead. Peter did tell them what they did wrong though.

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But God can read theirs, we don't know what happened before the story. I trust God's judgements that He is fair even if He doesn't always confide in us on His judgements. He gives us enough to know His character and how He judges and what He judges.

PloverWing said:

Judaism is a religion whose adherents follow the laws listed in the Pentateuch (Genesis through Deuteronomy) as an expression of their covenant with God. Christianity grew out of Judaism, but the two religions diverged in the first couple of centuries AD.

Jesus and most of his first disciples were Jewish. After his death and resurrection, large numbers of Gentiles also wanted to become followers of Jesus. One of the major questions the first-century church faced was whether these Gentiles needed to convert fully to Judaism in order to become part of the Christian community -- did their men have to be circumcised, did they have to follow the dietary rules, and so forth. We see this question being debated in Acts and in Paul's letters. In the end, the church's decision was that no, converts to Christianity did not have to follow the laws of the Jewish covenant.

Regarding the rest of your post: It looks like you and I have very different views of both Judaism and Christianity, so I'm inclined to quietly part ways rather than dive into an extended argument.

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I agree with your last statement. The teaching that the Pharisees were adherents to the Laws God revealed to us from Genesis through Deuteronomy, although popular in this world's religious sects and businesses, are proven by the Inspired Word of God throughout the entire Bible as a false teaching. And when a man considers "EVERY" Word Jesus used to describe the mainstream preachers of HIS Time, and the commandments, traditions and philosophies they taught for doctrines, it is clear that the Pharisees were NOT "adherents to the laws listed in the Pentateuch (Genesis through Deuteronomy)", while Zacharias, Simeon and Anna, and the Lord's Christ Himself, were. If a person is not willing to accept this undeniable Biblical truth, then there is no reason to continue.

In closing, I would direct you to Paul's teaching in the hopes that you might consider ALL that is written in Scriptures and be renewed in the spirit of your mind regarding the Laws the Pharisees were actually promoting.

1 cor. 9: 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

10 Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, "no doubt", this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

Would it not be the same for "EVERY WORD" that proceeds from the mouth of God? Does God care about the loose skin on a man's penis? Or is this Law also "written for our sakes no doubt". According to Moses, it's the Circumcision of the heart that matters. This was true for Abraham and all the Faithful.

Every human father reserves the right, demands the right, to direct his own children as to what is food and what is not.

And yet Mainstream Christianity, while demanding the right to direct their own children, reject the very same Right for the Great God and Father of all, to define for His Children what is food and what is not.

Men are free to follow the religious system of this world God placed us in, with their own judgments, their own high days, their own Sabbaths and their own definition of Holy, Clean and righteousness.

But clearly in Acts 15, the Disciples did not engage in the same behavior.