Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

ChubbyCherub · 2025-11-06T10:06:13-0600

SabbathBlessings said:
The Sabbath is from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown.

The Sabbath we are to keep the Sabbath day holy Exo20:8 Focusing on God Isa58:13 helping others in need is not a sin on the Sabbath Mat12:12

Thank you!! x

HARK! · 2025-11-06T10:06:25-0600

ChubbyCherub said:
I am going to discuss this with my church to see what their views are and why but, in the meantime, they are asking for volunteers for church events on Saturday evenings. Is this technically breaking Sabbath? I just don't know!

I volunteer to help people, for no personal gain, on the Sabbath. Did not Yahshua?

By my understanding the 1st day of the week begins at sundown of the 7th day of the week; but there a some who believe that a new day begins at sunrise; and there is scripture that supports that position.

ChubbyCherub · 2025-11-06T10:07:58-0600

HARK! said:
I volunteer to help people, for no personal gain, on the Sabbath. Did not Yahshua?

By my understanding the 1st day of the week begins at sundown of the 7th day of the week; but there a some who believe that a new day begins at sunrise; and there is scripture that supports that position.

Thank you so much!

I wasn't sure if there were certain activities that were forbidden during the Sabbath, even if it's helping out at the church, so thought I'd ask. I am so new to all of the Sabbath stuff and genuinely want to honor God so my head is here, there and everywhere with it all but appreciate the help!

jas3 · 2025-11-06T10:13:36-0600

HARK! said:
In the 5th century, Socrates Scholasticus Church History book 5 states the fact that until Constantine imposed Dies Solis (Sungod Day) on humanity, most assemblies and believers across the world at that time still kept The Sabbath even as late as 5 centuries later after Yahshua! He clearly knew that this “Sunday” worship was based in Rome on “the account of some ancient tradition!”

"Nor is there less variation in regard to religious assemblies. For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the Sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this."

This is the danger of quote mining. Christians met on both Saturday and Sunday:

"Assemblies are not held in all churches on the same time or manner. The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries." - Sozomen, Ecclesiastical History, Book VII, Ch. 19

And if you read earlier in the same chapter of Socrates' history, he makes it clear that the Christian view is that there is no obligation to keep the Mosaic law:

"It appears to me that neither the ancients nor moderns who have affected to follow the Jews, have had any rational foundation for contending so obstinately about it. For they have not taken into consideration the fact that when Judaism was changed into Christianity, the obligation to observe the Mosaic law and the ceremonial types ceased." - Socrates Scholasticus, Church History, Book V, Ch. 22

I will also note that Socrates doesn't comment on a supposed forced transition to Sunday worship under Constantine. The only mention of Constantine in book V is in reference to the Quartodecimian controversy.

HARK! · 2025-11-06T10:21:32-0600

ChubbyCherub said:
Thank you so much!

I wasn't sure if there were certain activities that were forbidden during the Sabbath, even if it's helping out at the church, so thought I'd ask.

Yahshua helped people on the Sabbath. The Levies did Priestly duties on the Sabbath; and in congregations around the world there are those who serve on the Sabbath (or what they have been led to believe is the Sabbath), including the Pastors, Priests, and Rabbis.

My understanding is that if it is charitable work, where I receive no personal benefit; then it is serving my heavenly father.

For example, since this past Sukkot, I have made it my mission to feed the homeless every Shabbat. This comes at my expense. I gain nothing from this but treasure in heaven.

ChubbyCherub said:
I am so new to all of the Sabbath stuff and genuinely want to honor God so my head is here, there and everywhere with it all but appreciate the help!

Hallelu YAH!

All esteem to him!

HARK! · 2025-11-06T10:27:53-0600

jas3 said:
assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week

assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week

Your source make a clear distinction between the Sabbath and the first day of the week.

Yah makes it clear that the Sabbath is the 7th day.

Good work!

Hentenza · 2025-11-06T10:35:21-0600

HARK! said:
It's not a new covenant. It's a renewed covenant.

Jer 31:31
Behold, the days are coming, averring is Yahweh, when I will contract a new (חדשה)covenant with the house of Israel (Notice who the contract is with) and the house of Judah.

Right. That matches Heb. 8. However, it with better promises and the old us passing away so I don’t agree that is a renewal.

The new covenant that I’m talking about is the one that Jesus spoke off during the last supper. This new covenant of blood is for the church not for Israel.

“And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭20‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Luke 22:20 And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood. | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now

And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, “This cup, which is poured out for you, is the new covenant in My blood.

bible.com

HARK! said:
ל הִנֵּה יָמִים בָּאִים, נְאֻם-יְהוָה; וְכָרַתִּי, אֶת-בֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל וְאֶת-בֵּית יְהוּדָה--בְּרִית חֲדָשָׁה.

châdash, khaw-dash'; a primitive root; to be new; causatively, to rebuild:—renew, repair.
Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon [?] (Jump to Scripture Index)

STRONGS H2318:
† [חָדַשׁ] verb only Pi. (and Hithp.) renew, repair (in poetry and late) (Late Hebrew id., Phoenician חדש; noun חדש new moon, also in קרתחדשת new-city£½Carthage; Aramaic Tedfo and חַדֵּשׁ; Arabic حَدَثَ be new, Ethiopic ሐደለ፡ I. 2. renew; Sabean החדתֿ, see Os (Levy): ZMG 1865, 204 MordtZMG 1876, 30; Assyrian [adâڑu], uddiڑ, renew, eڑڑu, new, etc. DlW 199 ff.) —
Pi. Perfect וְחִדְּשׁוּ consecutive Isaiah 61:4; Imperfect וַיְחַדֵּשׁ 2 Chronicles 15:8; 2nd person masculine singular תְּחַדֵּשׁ Job 10:17; Psalm 104:30; וּנְחַדֵּשׁ 1 Samuel 11:14; Imperative חַדֵּשׁ Psalm 51:21; Infinitive לְחַדֵּשׁ 2 Chronicles 24:4, 12; —
1. renew, make anew הַמְּלוּכָה 1 Samuel 11:14 (editorial); פני אדמה Psalm 104:30, רוּחַ Psalm 51:12 (|| בּרא); = bring back יָמֵינוּ כְּקֶדֶם Lamentations 5:21; עדיך ח׳ Job 10:17 i.e. bringest fresh (new) witnesses.

(CLV) Ezk 37:21
speak to them, Thus says my Lord Yahweh: Behold, I shall take the sons of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will convene them from all around and bring them to their own ground.

(CLV) Ezk 37:22
I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be king for them all. They shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they be divided into two kingdoms any longer.

(CLV) Hb 8:8
For, blaming them, He is saying, "Lo! the days are coming~," the Lord is saying, "And I shall be concluding with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new (καινην, Kainos) covenant,

Kainos, not Neos

G3501 néos – new ("new on the scene"); recently revealed or "what was not there before" (TDNT), including what is recently discovered.

G3501 /néos ("new on the scene") suggests something "new in time" – in contrast to its near-synonym (2537 /kainós, "new in quality").

Oh, and BTW, the Sons of Zadok, who YHWH bestowed authority to settle all disputes regarding scripture, renewed their covenant every year at Passover. Why do you suppose that YHWH told us to honor his Passover forever?

The Sons of Zadok do not renew or change God’s covenant. That is strictly God’s purview.

HARK! said:
Yes it is. I thought that we went over this already. In case I forgot, or you missed it;

(CLV) Mt 5:17
"You should not infer that I came to demolish the law or the prophets. I came not to demolish, but to fulfill.

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from the law till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Mt 5:19
"Whosoever, then, should be annulling one of the least of these precepts, and should be teaching men thus, the least in the kingdom of the heavens shall he be called. Yet whoever should be doing and teaching them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of the heavens.

(CLV) Mt 5:20
For I am saying to you that, if ever your righteousness should not be superabounding more than that of the scribes and Pharisees, by no means may you be entering into the kingdom of the heavens.

Furthermore:

(CLV) Mt 5:18
For verily, I am saying to you, Till heaven and earth should be passing by, one iota or one serif may by no means be passing by from THE LAW till all should be occurring.

(CLV) Lk 16:17
Yet it is easier for heaven and earth to pass by than for one serif of THE LAW to fall.

Last time I checked, the earth was still here.

The misuse of these verses to prove that the law is still required removes the historical context. Jesus ministered to the Jews first and Jesus had to correct the errors that the Jews of the time were making with regards of their traditions. Jesus did not actually fulfilled the law until He kept all of it perfectly, and was crucified and resurrected. So these verse only prove that the law was still applicable at this time of His ministry.

HARK! · 2025-11-06T10:41:48-0600

jas3 said:
And if you read earlier in the same chapter of Socrates' history, he makes it clear that the Christian view is that there is no obligation to keep the Mosaic law:

"It appears to me that neither the ancients nor moderns who have affected to follow the Jews, have had any rational foundation for contending so obstinately about it. For they have not taken into consideration the fact that when Judaism was changed into Christianity, the obligation to observe the Mosaic law and the ceremonial types ceased." - Socrates Scholasticus, Church History, Book V, Ch. 22

No surprise.

Socrates of Constantinople, also known as Socrates Scholasticus, was a 5th-century Greek Christian church historian, a contemporary of Sozomen and Theodoret. He is the author of a Historia Ecclesiastica which covers the history of late ancient Christianity during the years 305 to 439. Wikipedia

Constantine the Great

Roman emperor from 306 to 337 and first to convert to Christianity (272–337)
Constantine I, also known as Constantine the Great, was Roman emperor from AD 306 to 337 and the first Roman emperor to convert to Christianity. He played a pivotal role in elevating the status of Christianity in Rome, the Edict of Milan decriminalising Christian practice and ceasing Christian persecution. This was a turning point in the Christianisation of the Roman Empire. He founded the city of Constantinople and made it the capital of the Empire, which it remained for over a millennium. Wikipedia

Constantine was a sun worshiper. His coins were inscribed with "SOLI INVICTO COMITI," or companion to the sun god, until the day he died.

who is depicted on the back of constanine's coin SOLI INVICTO COMITI, at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Do you know why the Pagans named the first day of the week Sunday?

HARK! · 2025-11-06T10:45:27-0600

Hentenza said:
I don’t agree that is a renewal.

My stance is supported by both the Hebrew, the Greek, and the Sons of Zadok who were given authority by YHWH to settle such disputes.

You don't have to agree with the authorities, nor the empirical evidence.

Hentenza · 2025-11-06T10:45:40-0600

HARK! said:
Wrong again.

YHWH gave us those commandments. Yahshua quoted only one greatest commandment. There can only be one greatest of all. That doesn't nullify the second greatest, nor any of the others. If you obey the greatest commandment; then by default you have obeyed the second greatest; and all of the rest.

(CLV) Mt 22:36
"Teacher, what is the great precept in the law (Torah)?"

(CLV) Mt 22:37
Now He averred to him, "You shall be loving the Lord your God iwith your whole heart, and with your whole soul, and with your whole comprehension.

Didn’t you forget about the verses that follow or are you only going to quote what benefits your argument. Jesus actually answered the Pharisees question with two commandments not one.

““Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the great and foremost commandment. The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ Upon these two commandments hang the whole Law and the Prophets.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭22‬:‭36‬-‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

Matthew 22:36-40 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ This is the great an | New American Standard Bible -

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And He said to him, “ ‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ This is the great an

bible.com

The whole of the law hangs in these two commandments. Notice that the second is like the first.

HARK! said:
(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me,you will be keeping My precepts.

This is the last time that I am going to ask you to whom are you addressing your random verses. You do know that verses can be used to flame others, right?

Hentenza · 2025-11-06T10:47:50-0600

HARK! said:
My stance is supported by both the Hebrew, the Greek, and the Sons of Zadok who were given authority by YHWH to settle such disputes.

You don't have to agree with the authorities, nor the empirical evidence.

According to your interpretation which I do not share. You have not offered empirical evidence.

jas3 · 2025-11-06T10:58:48-0600

HARK! said:
Your source make a clear distinction between the Sabbath and the first day of the week.

Do you have any evidence that this "clear distinction" is anything more than a rendering of καί?

HARK! said:
No surprise.

No surprise? You were the one who claimed otherwise. I'd think you'd be at least a little surprised that your own source contradicts you.

HARK! · 2025-11-06T11:04:11-0600

Hentenza said:
The whole of the law hangs in these two commandments. Notice that the second is like the first.

Notice that the "whole law (Torah) hangs" on these two.

Again, if we love Yah: we will obey his Torah. This means that will will love our associate, as it is in the Torah:

(CLV) Lv 19:18
You shall not avenge nor shall you be resentful against the sons of your people. You will love your associate as yourself: I am Yahweh.

So by fulfilling the greatest; we will fulfill the the rest by obeying the rest.

(CLV) Jn 14:15
If you should be loving Me,you will be keeping My precepts.

Hentenza said:
This is the last time that I am going to ask you to whom are you addressing your random verses.

It's not random. It's right in line with the rest of the scripture that I posted regarding doing Yah's will.

Yahshua addressed it to those who are called to do Yah's will.

The Torah was not nailed to the pale with Yahshua. Yah forbid! It was dogma that was nailed to the pale.

HARK! · 2025-11-06T11:07:29-0600

Hentenza said:
According to your interpretation

(CLV) Ezk 44:15
Yet the Levitical priests, sons of Zadok, who kept the charge of My sanctuary when the sons of Israel strayed from Me, they shall come near to Me to minister to Me, and they will stand before Me to offer to Me the fat and the blood, averring is my Lord Yahweh.

(CLV) Ezk 44:23
They shall direct My people to distinguish between the holy and the profane, and they shall inform them the difference between the unclean and the clean.

(CLV) Ezk 44:24
In a controversy it is they who shall officiate in judgment; in accord with My ordinances, thus they will judge it; My laws and My statutes shall they observe at all My appointed times, and My sabbaths shall they hallow.

HARK! · 2025-11-06T11:08:45-0600

jas3 said:
Do you have any evidence that this "clear distinction" is anything more than a rendering of καί?

Would you care to explain your conjecture?

jas3 said:
I'd think you'd be at least a little surprised that your own source contradicts you.

I haven't seen the evidence that my source contradicts me.

Are you acquainted with the fallacy of bare assertions?

jas3 · 2025-11-06T11:43:01-0600

HARK! said:
Would you care to explain your conjecture?

Sorry, I thought you knew a little Greek; καί means "and," so one potential rendering in English is "as well as." But just saying "they meet on Saturdays and Sundays" doesn't draw a clear distinction between meeting on Saturday as opposed to meeting on Sunday.
Another point when it comes to English usage, "as well as" can be used in the sense of "in addition to," which actually indicates that the first item is of less importance than the second, and I suspect this is actually the more proper usage of the phrase. If something is done "as well as" something else, the "something else" is the reference for how well "something" is to be done.

HARK! said:
I haven't seen the evidence that my source contradicts me.

You haven't seen any evidence that "most assemblies and believers across the world at that time still kept The Sabbath" is contradicted by "the obligation to observe the Mosaic law and the ceremonial types ceased"? Do you not think keeping the Sabbath was part of the Mosaic law?

HARK! · 2025-11-06T12:19:56-0600

jas3 said:
Sorry, I thought you knew a little Greek; καί means "and," so one potential rendering in English is "as well as." But just saying "they meet on Saturdays and Sundays" doesn't draw a clear distinction between meeting on Saturday as opposed to meeting on Sunday.
Another point when it comes to English usage, "as well as" can be used in the sense of "in addition to," which actually indicates that the first item is of less importance than the second, and I suspect this is actually the more proper usage of the phrase. If something is done "as well as" something else, the "something else" is the reference for how well "something" is to be done.

Wow!

That still draws a distinction between the Sabbath and the 1st day of the week.

jas3 said:
You haven't seen any evidence that "most assemblies and believers across the world at that time still kept The Sabbath" is contradicted by "the obligation to observe the Mosaic law and the ceremonial types ceased"? Do you not think keeping the Sabbath was part of the Mosaic law?

"At that time" was when Constantine the Sun Worshiper made "The Venerable Day of the Sun" a day of rest.

On March 7, 321, Roman Emperor Constantine I decreed that dies Solis Invicti (‘sun-day,’ or Day of Sol Invictus, Roman God of the Sun) would be the Roman day of rest throughout the Roman Empire.

March 7, 321: How Sunday Became the Christian Day of Rest - History and Headlines

On March 7, 321, Roman Emperor Constantine I decreed that dies Solis Invicti (‘sun-day,’) would be the Roman day of rest throughout the Roman Empire.

www.historyandheadlines.com

jas3 said:
"the obligation to observe the Mosaic law and the ceremonial types ceased"

Who are you quoting? Please use the quote feature to make easier for us to see where you are getting this.

HIM · 2025-11-06T12:22:20-0600

Hentenza said:
Totally disagree with you. Walk in the Spirit and He will convict you of your sin. The Jewish law is not longer applicable to the Christian.

Then you disagree with God’s word, for Paul had said, the law isn’t for a righteous man, but for the sinner.

BobRyan · 2025-11-06T12:45:15-0600

NBB said:
The Holy Spirit would get offended if you are sinning in a serious manner he does not by not doing the sabbath.

John 16:2 Jesus said that people will claim god is approving of things that He does not approve of.

"2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. 3 2 They will make you outcasts from the synagogue, but an hour is coming for everyone who kills you to think that he is offering service to God. "

This helps explain the outstanding enthusiasm Saul had in his persecution of Christians

jas3 · 2025-11-06T13:42:09-0600

HARK! said:
Wow!

That still draws a distinction between the Sabbath and the 1st day of the week.

It falls to you to explain how there's a distinction made in the text instead of just asserting that there is one.

HARK! said:
"At that time" was when Constantine the Sun Worshiper made "The Venerable Day of the Sun" a day of rest.

You don't seriously think Socrates Scholasticus is saying Christians stopped being subject to the Mosaic law in AD 318, do you? Obviously he's saying that it has never been a requirement of Christians.

HARK! said:
Who are you quoting? Please use the quote feature to make easier for us to see where you are getting this.

Socrates Scholasticus, as I quoted him in #104.

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Are professed Christians that worship our Lord on Sunday instead of Saturday sinning?

Yes

No

Maybe

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