Democrats shut down government

Sportsballfan · Monday at 9:29 AM

ViaCrucis said:
Can you provide a source where Congressional Democrats are pushing to extend federal healthcare programs to undocumented immigrants?

I can provide a source proving the claim I made, which is that Democrats want to give illegal immigrants free healthcare.

BPPLEE said:
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2019/06/27/all_dem_candidates_raise_hand_when_asked_if_illegal_immigrants_should_get_health_care_coverage_at_debate.html?stream=top&jw_start=%7Bseek_to_second_number%7D

All Democrats At Main Debate Agree Illegal Immigrants Should Get Health Care Coverage

ViaCrucis said:
I don't think, when someone uses "gender mutilation surgeries" to describe this medically, scientifically, morally, and philosophically complex issue that they are genuinely interested in serious conversation about it. As such, I will not be addressing it.

More like, not addressing it because it’s a losing issue for the democrats and you would prefer to brush it under the rug.

ViaCrucis said:
-CryptoLutheran

Cringe.

Delvianna · Monday at 9:47 AM

I'm just going to put this here as proof that undocumented immigrants receive free health care. This is from a law office that specializes in immigration law.

Blurb:

You have the following health care options regardless of your immigration status or whether you have health insurance:

Basic emergency room treatment for serious medical emergencies, including labor and delivery.
Health care services from community health centers, migrant health centers, and free clinics.
Services from state or local departments of public health (including immunization, screening and treatment for communicable diseases).
Programs providing health services necessary to protect life or safety: including emergency medical, food or shelter programs; mental health crisis services; assistance for people experiencing domestic violence; crime victim assistance services and disaster relief.
Financial assistance or “charity care” programs at community health centers and most public and safety-net hospitals.

Note that some states provide free or low-cost public health insurance to children, pregnant individuals or other low-income residents regardless of their immigration status. More information is available at Health Care Coverage (Maps)/ and Medical Assistance Programs for Immigrants in Various States (Table).
Additional options may be available in your state. Check with a trusted health care provider or with a local immigrants’ rights or health advocacy group.

Link: Know Your Rights: Health Care and Health Insurance for Immigrants

Can we please stop saying that illegals aren't getting free healthcare please. This is NOT a lie.

Job 33:6 · Monday at 10:51 AM

Delvianna said:
I'm just going to put this here as proof that undocumented immigrants receive free health care. This is from a law office that specializes in immigration law.

Blurb:

You have the following health care options regardless of your immigration status or whether you have health insurance:

Basic emergency room treatment for serious medical emergencies, including labor and delivery.

Health care services from community health centers, migrant health centers, and free clinics.

Services from state or local departments of public health (including immunization, screening and treatment for communicable diseases).

Programs providing health services necessary to protect life or safety: including emergency medical, food or shelter programs; mental health crisis services; assistance for people experiencing domestic violence; crime victim assistance services and disaster relief.

Financial assistance or “charity care” programs at community health centers and most public and safety-net hospitals.

Note that some states provide free or low-cost public health insurance to children, pregnant individuals or other low-income residents regardless of their immigration status. More information is available at Health Care Coverage (Maps)/ and Medical Assistance Programs for Immigrants in Various States (Table).
Additional options may be available in your state. Check with a trusted health care provider or with a local immigrants’ rights or health advocacy group.

Link: Know Your Rights: Health Care and Health Insurance for Immigrants

Can we please stop saying that illegals aren't getting free healthcare please. This is NOT a lie.

Emergency services are not the same as affordable care act services. Everyone knows that illegal immigrants may receive healthcare. But the current debate is on the ACA subsidies.

Delvianna · Monday at 11:07 AM

Job 33:6 said:
Everyone knows that illegal immigrants may receive healthcare.

Please say that louder for the ones in the back that are saying illegals receive no free health care.

ViaCrucis said:
There is no system in place for undocumented immigrants to legally attain federal healthcare services.

Because services from (community health centers, migrant health centers, and free clinics) are federally funded.

So while there is an argument about ACA funding for illegals, what difference does it make if our tax dollars are funding them anyway? Whether it's through ACA funding or something else with another title?

Job 33:6 · Monday at 11:37 AM

ViaCrucis said:
My apologies, I should have been far more clear, I spoken in broad generalities rather than specifics:

There is no system in place for undocumented immigrants to legally attain federal healthcare services.

Individual states have every right to write their own laws.

There is no Democratic policy to extend federal healthcare to undocumented immigrants.

The lie is the claim, two-fold:

1) Undocumented immigrants are eligible for federal healthcare programs.
2) Democrats are trying to extend federal healthcare programs to undocumented immigrants.

Those claiming either or both of those things are lying.

The reason Democrats have refused to sign with the Republicans, as it pertains to the current mess, is because Democrats are refusing to sign away healthcare benefits for millions of Americans.

MAGA has attempted to falsely portray this as Democrats trying to extend healthcare to undocumented "Illegal" immigrants as part of the larger MAGA narrative of the evils of migrants in the US, even amidst the horrors of continued violence and violation of the US Constitution. Not just the human rights abuses committed against undocumented immigrants (which is a legitimate issue itself), but further the human rights and Constitutionally protected rights of citizens--as to date over 170 American citizens have been detained by ICE. I have personally seen camera footage of federal agents assaulting civilians--without provocation. It's impossible to escape.

-CryptoLutheran

To clarify, it is accurate that illegal immigrants cannot enroll in federal healthcare programs, but they can be served by them in emergency circumstances.

Funds from Medicaid for example, can be used for illegal immigrants. Like if an illegal immigrant has a heart attack.

Job 33:6 · Monday at 11:39 AM

Delvianna said:
Please say that louder for the ones in the back that are saying illegals receive no free health care.

Because services from (community health centers, migrant health centers, and free clinics) are federally funded.

So while there is an argument about ACA funding for illegals, what difference does it make if our tax dollars are funding them anyway? Whether it's through ACA funding or something else with another title?

I think the point here is that, the programs under debate are not available for illegal immigrants. It's not a matter related to the current shutdown, which I think is what crypto is communicating.

Tuur · Monday at 5:38 PM

Job 33:6 said:
I tend to view the shutdown as Republican driven. The current administration has been slashing and burning social programs all year and not really giving the Democrats an inch. But here are subsidies that the American people want, including Republicans. It seems like a reasonable item for Democrats to stand up for.

Which puts the Democrats in the situation of denying funding to Federal workers and other social programs in order to get what they want. All they had to do was to vote for the continuing resolution and introduce a separate bill. If that bill couldn't make it out of committee, it would have been political talking points leading into tomorrow's elections. Now it's too late for that sort of grandstanding.

The key point is that they are refusing to vote for the continuing resolution until their demands are met. That's not the best optics.

Job 33:6 · Monday at 6:30 PM

Tuur said:
Which puts the Democrats in the situation of denying funding to Federal workers and other social programs in order to get what they want. All they had to do was to vote for the continuing resolution and introduce a separate bill. If that bill couldn't make it out of committee, it would have been political talking points leading into tomorrow's elections. Now it's too late for that sort of grandstanding.

The key point is that they are refusing to vote for the continuing resolution until their demands are met. That's not the best optics.

Voting for the CR wouldn't include extension of the subsidies. And likewise it could be viewed as Republicans refusing to negotiate on healthcare until their own demands are met (expiration of the subsidies). And that also isn't the best optics, given that most Americans, including Republicans, want the subsidies to be extended.

The Republican position would be stronger if the American people didn't want extension of the subsidies. It would also be stronger if the Republican party offered an alternative to the subsidies. But without either of these, the Republican party is essentially going against the will of the people.

So the question is, who is being too stubborn in terms of not negotiating? And I would say, given that the Republican party has been slashing and burning social programs to the ground all year, now would be an appropriate time for them to come to the table, rather than just trampling Democrats.

We've seen cuts to Medicaid. We've seen the slash and burn of the department of education. We've seen environmental programs torn down. Foreign aid torn down.

And to be fair, we've also seen extension of tax breaks for the rich and appropriations proposals that include 100 billion dollar funding increase for the military.

So, RIFs and doge and the above notes aside, social programs have been taking a hit all year.

And now, we have the ACA subsidies that most Americans view positively, millions of Republican people use them and approve of them and benefit from them. Marjorie Taylor Green talked about just this. And so the Democrats are saying, given all that has happened this year, let us at least have this 1 thing that most Americans view favorably and want to keep, in light of all the slashing and burning of government programs that we've been seeing all year.

But the Republican party is simply refusing to negotiate on this topic. No alternative proposals have been made. And the continuing resolution is not actually clean because the subsidies are set to expire.

prodromos · Monday at 8:46 PM

Job 33:6 said:
We've seen the slash and burn of the department of education. We've seen environmental programs torn down. Foreign aid torn down.

What you've seen is the gutting of various ways Democrats were channelling government funds into their own pockets.

Tuur · Monday at 9:02 PM

Job 33:6 said:
Voting for the CR wouldn't include extension of the subsidies.

And there it is.

Job 33:6 · Monday at 9:07 PM

prodromos said:
What you've seen is the gutting of various ways Democrats were channelling government funds into their own pockets.

I would say that's not the full story. The cuts have gone far above and beyond waste fraud and abuse. For example, with all the chainsaw waving and gay book banning, did anyone notice this? :

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 9:06 AM

Job 33:6 said:
To clarify, it is accurate that illegal immigrants cannot enroll in federal healthcare programs, but they can be served by them in emergency circumstances.

Funds from Medicaid for example, can be used for illegal immigrants. Like if an illegal immigrant has a heart attack.

I'd like to think that any reasonable person would support life-saving medical treatment in an emergency for anyone, regardless of who the person is.

If someone believes that someone should be denied medical treatment for a heart attack (for example), then frankly they are a psychopath.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 9:10 AM

Tuur said:
And there it is.

So as the Republicans have been burning this country to the ground under Trump's anarchic regime; the Democrats finally put up a meager token of resistance by refusing to sign onto the CR, which would once again hurt the American people, and rather than the Republicans negotiating they took their toys and went home. But we're supposed to blame the Democrats?

It's like I'm supposed to apologize to the guy holding me hostage, and then thank him after he shoots me in the leg as a "warning".

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 9:16 AM

Delvianna said:
Please say that louder for the ones in the back that are saying illegals receive no free health care.

Because services from (community health centers, migrant health centers, and free clinics) are federally funded.

So while there is an argument about ACA funding for illegals, what difference does it make if our tax dollars are funding them anyway? Whether it's through ACA funding or something else with another title?

The claim is that Democrats want to extend eligibility of programs to undocumented immigrants. That is a lie.

If you ask me if I think that a person, regardless of who they are, deserves something as basic as healthcare, especially life-saving healthcare. Then of course I do.

Democrats may not want to extend these programs to undocumented immigrants.

My personal view is that healthcare is a basic human right, and in the wealthiest country in the world that right should exist for everyone; not just citizens and legal residents, but even undocumented immigrants. If a person is here illegally, they should receive life-saving treatment; and the legality of their status can be addressed later, and through proper procedure they can either remain here legally or be deported back to their country of origin.

That is humane, just, and lawful.

The opposite of what is going on right now and how things are in America. Where the conditions are inhumane, unjust, and unlawful.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 9:17 AM

Sportsballfan said:
I can provide a source proving the claim I made, which is that Democrats want to give illegal immigrants free healthcare.

More like, not addressing it because it’s a losing issue for the democrats and you would prefer to brush it under the rug.

Cringe.

Have a nice day.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 9:18 AM

prodromos said:
What you've seen is the gutting of various ways Democrats were channelling government funds into their own pockets.

Bull.

-CryptoLutheran

BPPLEE · Tuesday at 9:20 AM

ViaCrucis said:
I'd like to think that any reasonable person would support life-saving medical treatment in an emergency for anyone, regardless of who the person is.

If someone believes that someone should be denied medical treatment for a heart attack (for example), then frankly they are a psychopath.

-CryptoLutheran

Maybe they believe that the person having the heart attack shouldn't have been here in the first place.
I would never suggest denying emergency care to anyone, but maybe we need less of the people that are burdening the system

ViaCrucis · Tuesday at 9:25 AM

BPPLEE said:
Maybe they believe that the person having the heart attack shouldn't have been here in the first place.
I would never suggest denying emergency care to anyone, but maybe we need less of the people that are burdening the system

Then do it lawfully and humanely--as I suggested.

Detaining US citizens and legal residents unlawfully should be considered human rights abuse. The people in this current administration should be tried at the Hague. And I pray that each and every one of them, after this nightmare is over, faces justice for their crimes.

-CryptoLutheran

BPPLEE · Tuesday at 9:47 AM

ViaCrucis said:
Then do it lawfully and humanely--as I suggested.

Detaining US citizens and legal residents unlawfully should be considered human rights abuse. The people in this current administration should be tried at the Hague. And I pray that each and every one of them, after this nightmare is over, faces justice for their crimes.

-CryptoLutheran

Then people should come here lawfully

Sportsballfan · Tuesday at 12:15 PM

ViaCrucis said:
Then do it lawfully and humanely--as I suggested.

Detaining US citizens and legal residents unlawfully should be considered human rights abuse. The people in this current administration should be tried at the Hague. And I pray that each and every one of them, after this nightmare is over, faces justice for their crimes.

-CryptoLutheran

There is 0% chance the administration is going to be punished or even tried at Hague. Calling it human rights violations is also stupid that is just a buzzword at this point.

It must be sad hating Trump and his policies so much that your prayers are for him to “face justice.” Perhaps those prayers should be for the people being deported to make their poophole countries better.

Democrats shut down government

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All Democrats At Main Debate Agree Illegal Immigrants Should Get Health Care Coverage