Democrats shut down government

ViaCrucis · Saturday at 10:48 AM

friend of said:
Why on God's green Earth would they want to do that?

I don't understand why the Republican Party does and wants half the things it does or wants. But I've spent nearly two decades watching people on the American Right argue, fiercely, against giving American people decent healthcare.

The best healthcare reforms we've had in my 43 years of life came in the form of the Affordable Care Act. It's not great, it's a major compromise and depends largely on each state's willingness to cooperate, but it's better than everyone who can't afford healthcare simply dying. But the war against the ACA has been nonstop. In spite of Trump's promise to replace the ACA with something better there's been? ... Oh right nothing.

If Republicans (and Democrats) actually cared about the American people this country would have universal healthcare; not only would this be cheaper for the government, it would actually help--and it would be far better than the ACA.

So why do Republicans want to hurt the American people? I don't know. But if I was a betting man at least part of it has to do with how much money lobbyists spend, and at least some of it is simply the fact that many Republicans genuinely lack belief in the basic value and dignity of human life.

I've been watching and observing and having these arguments for decades. And the one central truth about the Republican Party has always been that the poor, the hungry, the stranger, and invisible at best don't matter at all. The Republicans have consistently been the party fighting against human dignity, human rights, and fighting the hardest on behalf of the wealthy billionaires to keep a small few very rich and powerful men at the top, and leave the majority of the American people barely able to scrape by.

All Republicans? No. I'm sure there are some good Republicans. But the Republican Party of my generation is not the Republican Party of my great-grandfather's generation. It's certainly not the Party of Eisenhower, let alone the Party of Lincoln. I don't even know it's the Party of Reagan anymore.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Saturday at 10:52 AM

friend of said:
https://x.com/JDVance/status/1984329425186431426

Yeah Trump is so so bad. How dare he stick up for Christianity

The idea that Donald Trump "sticks up for Christianity" is a laughable farce. Trump wouldn't know the backside of a church if he drove into one.

No, Trump exploits the Christian Right. And the exploiters and profiteers of religion, aka Christian Nationalists, are more than happy to walk hand-in-hand with an authoritarian. But that's not new. That happened in Germany in the 1930s with the Deutsche Christen.

Christian Nationalism isn't Christianity. It's a parody of religion.

-CryptoLutheran

friend of · Saturday at 6:08 PM

ViaCrucis said:
Christian Nationalism isn't Christianity. It's a parody of religion.

As a Christian, do you NOT want to live in a country that espouses Christianity as it's main doctrine? Why or why not?

jacks · Saturday at 7:10 PM

ViaCrucis said:
All Republicans? No. I'm sure there are some good Republicans.

Really stepping out on a limb there!

As difficult it may be for you to embrace the idea of Good Republicans, others have the same problem trying to think there are Good Democrats. Isn't it possible there are just as many "good" Republicans as Democrats?
That the problem is really a divided nation, that treat each other like opposing sports teams, rather than fellow citizens/human beings; who though flawed, truly do want the best for humanity, but have different views on how to get there.
Maybe the place to start is thinking (believing) the other "team" isn't evil and deserves our respect. Then perhaps we can begin to change minds. (Theirs and Ours.)

ralliann · Saturday at 7:52 PM

Yarddog said:
I'm not saying that. My point was the meaning of the debate.

For the purpose of the OP, Democrats didn't shut down the government. Congress by not coming to an agreement about the budget.

They could have continued government spending, but the Democrats refused. And you know it. They are strong arming to get their way.

Yarddog · Saturday at 8:17 PM

ralliann said:
They could have continued government spending, but the Democrats refused. And you know it. They are strong arming to get their way.

The Republicans could have agreed to the Democrats plan but they refused, and you know it. They are strong arming to get their way.

ViaCrucis · Saturday at 9:16 PM

friend of said:
As a Christian, do you NOT want to live in a country that espouses Christianity as it's main doctrine? Why or why not?

Which Christianity or "Christianity" is the nation in question espousing?

If you read a history book, you'll come across a period of history in Europe known as the Wars of Religion. Tell me, is that what you want a return to? Christians persecuting Christians?

-CryptoLutheran

ralliann · Sunday at 1:07 PM

Yarddog said:
The Republicans could have agreed to the Democrats plan but they refused, and you know it. They are strong arming to get their way.

So, shut down government until republicans agree to what Democrats want. This is strong arming and you know it. So yes, the dems have chosen to shut down government unless they get what they want.

Yarddog · Sunday at 1:14 PM

ralliann said:
So, shut down government until republicans agree to what Democrats want. This is strong arming and you know it. So yes, the dems have chosen to shut down government unless they get what they want.

Either side could have agreed to the other's plan but neither did. They both shut down the government but the reason Democrats wouldn't agree to the short term was because they were trying to keep Americans from losing their subsidies and dropping off the ACA.

prodromos · Sunday at 1:36 PM

Yarddog said:
Either side could have agreed to the other's plan but neither did. They both shut down the government but the reason Democrats wouldn't agree to the short term was because they were trying to keep Americans from losing their subsidies and dropping off the ACA.

This is the false mantra that the Democrats keep chanting, yes.

ralliann · Sunday at 1:39 PM

Yarddog said:
Either side could have agreed to the other's plan but neither did.

One plan was to continue the government funding.

Yarddog said:
They both shut down the government but the reason Democrats wouldn't agree to the short term was because they were trying to keep Americans from losing their subsidies and dropping off the ACA.

The democrats shut down the government refusing to continue it. Either they get their way, or it is shut down . And you know it.

Yarddog · Sunday at 3:26 PM

prodromos said:
This is the false mantra that the Democrats keep chanting, yes.

Nope. That is what they are doing. Many Republicans want to get rid of it while some don't.

Yarddog · Sunday at 3:30 PM

ralliann said:
One plan was to continue the government funding.

Past the ends of the subsidies, while Democrats wanted to extend those subsidies before they ended.

ralliann said:
The democrats shut down the government refusing to continue it. Either they get their way, or it is shut down . And you know it.

The same for Republicans. They refuse to help poor Americans so they shut down the government and you should know it.

Tuur · Sunday at 4:06 PM

Well, responses are running pretty much as expected. Given that all it will take to reopen government is for the Democrats to vote for the continuing resolution, it's mighty hard to seriously blame Republicans for this. Yes, I know that's the argument from the Democrat side. That doesn't mean there's a serious basis for it.

If we can hold off the finger pointing for a moment, I think we might be seeing the real reason the Democrats are denying a continuing resolution to keep things funded: To end filibusters. Once that's removed, then contentious things can be passed in the Senate by simple majority. The GOP holds the majority now, but that will change at some point. Trump has called for the GOP to end filibusters, but I think the Democrats are playing the long game here, and ending filibusters is what they really want.

ralliann · Sunday at 8:25 PM

Tuur said:
Well, responses are running pretty much as expected. Given that all it will take to reopen government is for the Democrats to vote for the continuing resolution, it's mighty hard to seriously blame Republicans for this. Yes, I know that's the argument from the Democrat side. That doesn't mean there's a serious basis for it.

If we can hold off the finger pointing for a moment, I think we might be seeing the real reason the Democrats are denying a continuing resolution to keep things funded: To end filibusters. Once that's removed, then contentious things can be passed in the Senate by simple majority. The GOP holds the majority now, but that will change at some point. Trump has called for the GOP to end filibusters, but I think the Democrats are playing the long game here, and ending filibusters is what they really want.

yep

Sportsballfan · Monday at 2:50 AM

ViaCrucis said:
This is a lie.

Undocumented immigrants are not, and never have been, given healthcare.

Democrats want to give them healthcare. This is a fact. Furthermore, this post didn’t address the gender mutilation surgeries.

Tuur · Monday at 4:42 AM

ViaCrucis said:
This is a lie.

Undocumented immigrants are not, and never have been, given healthcare. These are MAGA lies.

It didn't take long to find this from May of this year:

CMS Increasing Oversight on States Illegally Using Federal Medicaid Funding for Health Care for Illegal Immigrants | CMS

Or this from January 4 of the year:

ICYMI: Newsom Extends Free Healthcare to 700,000 Illegal Immigrants Despite Record Budget Deficit | The U.S. House Committee on the Budget - House Budget Committee

Or this, also from May of this year:

Map shows 14 states offering health coverage to undocumented migrants

ViaCrucis · Monday at 6:38 AM

Tuur said:
It didn't take long to find this from May of this year:

CMS Increasing Oversight on States Illegally Using Federal Medicaid Funding for Health Care for Illegal Immigrants | CMS

Or this from January 4 of the year:

ICYMI: Newsom Extends Free Healthcare to 700,000 Illegal Immigrants Despite Record Budget Deficit | The U.S. House Committee on the Budget - House Budget Committee

Or this, also from May of this year:

Map shows 14 states offering health coverage to undocumented migrants

My apologies, I should have been far more clear, I spoken in broad generalities rather than specifics:

There is no system in place for undocumented immigrants to legally attain federal healthcare services.

Individual states have every right to write their own laws.

There is no Democratic policy to extend federal healthcare to undocumented immigrants.

The lie is the claim, two-fold:

1) Undocumented immigrants are eligible for federal healthcare programs.
2) Democrats are trying to extend federal healthcare programs to undocumented immigrants.

Those claiming either or both of those things are lying.

The reason Democrats have refused to sign with the Republicans, as it pertains to the current mess, is because Democrats are refusing to sign away healthcare benefits for millions of Americans.

MAGA has attempted to falsely portray this as Democrats trying to extend healthcare to undocumented "Illegal" immigrants as part of the larger MAGA narrative of the evils of migrants in the US, even amidst the horrors of continued violence and violation of the US Constitution. Not just the human rights abuses committed against undocumented immigrants (which is a legitimate issue itself), but further the human rights and Constitutionally protected rights of citizens--as to date over 170 American citizens have been detained by ICE. I have personally seen camera footage of federal agents assaulting civilians--without provocation. It's impossible to escape.

-CryptoLutheran

ViaCrucis · Monday at 6:49 AM

Sportsballfan said:
Democrats want to give them healthcare. This is a fact.

Can you provide a source where Congressional Democrats are pushing to extend federal healthcare programs to undocumented immigrants?

Sportsballfan said:
Furthermore, this post didn’t address the gender mutilation surgeries.

I don't think, when someone uses "gender mutilation surgeries" to describe this medically, scientifically, morally, and philosophically complex issue that they are genuinely interested in serious conversation about it. As such, I will not be addressing it.

-CryptoLutheran

Job 33:6 · Monday at 6:53 AM

I tend to view the shutdown as Republican driven. The current administration has been slashing and burning social programs all year and not really giving the Democrats an inch. But here are subsidies that the American people want, including Republicans. It seems like a reasonable item for Democrats to stand up for.

Democrats shut down government

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