Who then can be saved?

Valletta · 2025-10-24T15:58:57-0500

Dan1988 said:
OK, so now you have invented your own private, unbiblical version of the gospel. You won't find any such silly version of the gospel anywhere in the Bible.

I can't believe how brazen you are to reject and deny the truth of the gospel, which states (in order to promote your false unbiblical version.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved. But you say No that's wrong because I say "I'm saved by faith". Beggars belief.

The Bible is clear as to how we are saved:

Peter 3:20-21 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. RSVCE

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T00:43:34-0500

2PhiloVoid said:
And what is this magical "correct approach" to Biblical Hermeneutics? Please tell me so I can add it to the other several "correct approaches" used among various groups of our fellow Christians (and which are described and meted out in over two dozen books I have by various theologians from various denominations).

We're both aligning with the truth of the Gospel, although I'd be slower to cite others as being heretics than you and I hesitate because of a wide range of conceptual, behavioral, philosophical and theological issues that no one has completely solved (nor can solve).

I'm going to take this response that you somehow don't think we need to gain a fuller immediate context for the letter to the Ephesians by reading it completely. You prefer the simplistic approach (which is in essence, a truncated approach).

Do you think a person can be saved if they "have faith through grace" but is still practicing the same sin with the same vigor that they did before they became a Christian? Personally, I would have to say either "no," or that such a person is in danger of living in a big question mark for their salvation, even if they wake up each day claiming that they're saved by God's grace because they have "faith."

And I think Paul makes it at least minimally clear in Ephesians that "faith" insinuates there is an effort to repent from a former form of sinful life as a part of living out one's faith and entering into the Grace that God gives us in Christ.

Well, it is a Covenant we are entering into----God does His part in offering us His Grace through Christ, and we do our part by responding in faith. Of course there's a "joint effort" between us and God, even if our own part in the covenant is obviously comparatively very small.

If you want to believe otherwise, I can't stop you and as long as you have faith, I won't degrade your status as a bona fide Christian.

I don't believe that Gods Word is open to various interpretations. There is no wiggle room, when it comes to the imperative, (essential) doctrines.

Gods sovereignty over every aspect of His creation, is the most rejected of all bible doctrines. The Bible does confirm that God is sovereign over the smallest things, such as the number of hairs on your head, and right through to the big ticket things such as, who will be saved and who will be left in their unregenerate condemned state.

Most Christian denominations reject Gods Word, when it speaks about Gods sovereign decrees, predestination onto salvation. And when we read about God tormenting sinners for eternity in hell fire. Many of these Christian Denominations, don't believe that God allows evil doers to rape and murder His children. Even though the Bible is clear that nothing can happen apart from Gods will.

Various Denominations interpret and teach radically different and opposing versions of the gospel. It's OK to have different views on the inconsequential doctrines, such as eschatology, but it's not OK to fellowship with others at the expense of the gospel truth.

The Ecumenical Movement, requires it's subscribers to sacrifice some of their core beliefs, for the sake of "Christian Unity".

When it come to interpreting and understanding Gods Word, the Bible tells us that spiritual things cannot be understood by the natural man, (unconverted man). It states that the things of God are foolishness to him, and he can't receive them because they are spiritually discerned (only understood by those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit).

The Holy Spirit leads saved people, into all truth. The Bible describes those whom God has not regenerated and quickened to life as "blind", they can see with their eyes but they can't comprehend spiritual things. God is Spirit, so it is impossible for the natural man to believe in God.

Many professing Christians are self deluded, they are not actually converted or saved. Jesus describes them as "many will come t Me on that day, saying Lord Lord. But He tells them to depart from Him into the lake of fire, because He never knew them".

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

In the same way, many approach the Bible with a certain expectation and they presume upon the Lord. They base their understanding on their own wisdom and discernment, instead of being instructed by Gods Word, they make Gods Word conform to their views.

The Bible confirms that every single person is born dead in sin, this means that it is impossible for them to respond to the gospel message with faith. The only way a person receives the gospel, is if God first gives them the gift of faith, so when they hear the gospel they do believe it.

Faith is not something that everyone is born with, nor can anyone produce or manufacture their own faith. It is the gift of God, lest anyone boast.

God only made two covenants with man, 1. was the Covenant of the Law. And 2. is the Covenant of Grace. Adam was under the covenant of the law and everyone after him is under the covenant of grace.

You may think that man contributes something to his salvation, but we have verses like >>> John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing".

And

1 Corinthians 4:7 "For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?"

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T01:03:51-0500

fhansen said:
The “justice” in man becoming justified is a direct result of his turning to God in faith. Because the essence or basis of that justice or righteousness is that very union. If we remain in Him, persevering to the end, we are the elect. From man’s perspective, some will think they’re His while they are not while others may not know they’re His, while they are. As for Judas, he probably thought he was the greatest saint of them all to begin with-while that self-righteousness was actually the precursor to his fall. Either way, from God's perspective...well, He knows all, of course.

And faith is first of all a gift of grace and secondly a human choice, a continuous one that can be rejected at any point. We can return to our old ways, to Adam's way, to the flesh, to ourselves. The fact that believers continue to struggle with sin and sometimes fail, in fact, proves that we're not 100% "sold out", not fully turned to God yet despite any talk or claims to the contrary.

The "Justice" in man becoming justified is not a direct or indirect result of turning to God in faith. It is 100% the result of being elected onto salvation, before the world was created.
How can a dead man conjure up saving faith, I assume you believe what God said about the sate of everyone being born dead in sin.

I would agree with you, if you could find a single verse in the bible, to support your theory.

The only ones who abide in Christ and persevere to the end are the elect, because we are indwelt by he Holy Spirit and He is the One who keeps us abiding and persevering. If we had any say in the matter, then we would all end up in hell. Salvation is of the Lord, it is not of you or your ability to save yourself and remain saved.

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T01:14:32-0500

BNR32FAN said:
Ok so Jesus said they believed and you say they didn’t. So who should I believe? The fact is that Jesus absolutely and undeniably said that people will believe and fall away and you’re just refusing to accept what it specifically and clearly stated in the scriptures. It’s undeniable, I literally just showed it to you in black and white quoted directly from Jesus’ words and you still refuse to admit it.

Every true believer knows the difference between the two types of "believe". Your obviously talking about the Demonic type. They also believe and tremble, but they will never have saving faith.

Those who joined the Apostolic bandwagon, and professed to believe, enjoyed the free Sunday lunch at Church, they met attractive young ladies, and enjoys the company of the local Church members, but they were never inwardly converted. There's was an outward superficial profession of faith. They believed that the gospel is the power to save sinners, but they also knew that it wasn't for them because God had not regenerated them or quickened them to life from their spiritually dead state.

Believing that God exists and that He is Almighty, doesn't mean that you are saved.

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T01:19:29-0500

BNR32FAN said:
So we’re saved by grace apart from faith? Why didn’t you quote the rest of the verse? I’ll tell you why because you don’t care about the truth of God’s word you’re only here to insult and badmouth people who are actually trying to help you by quoting the scriptures but you don’t care what the scriptures actually say, you care more about your precious doctrines than the word of God.

My bible tells me that I am saved by grace, so that's what I believe. You don't believe it because your denomination doesn't believe it. I mean why else would you reject what Gods has said.

In any case why do you refuse to reveal where faith comes from, let me guess your teacher told you that everyone conjures up their own.

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T01:45:52-0500

BNR32FAN said:
Ok so here’s exactly what you said.

So you did in fact say that the word “comes” in John 6:37 isn’t in the present tense because God chose the elect before creation which is implying that people come to Christ either at birth or before creation. And I showed on screen copied and pasted directly from Biblehub.com the definition of the Greek word Erchomahai that is translated to the word “comes” at 1 minute 8 seconds into the video. And even after I pointed that out in this reply to you, you still didn’t have the humility to admit it.

I'm not sure what your issue is with the words "come" and "comes". There is nothing mystical or complicated about the words or the verse.

I think you failed to connect the dots in the verse, where Jesus describes the same event from two different perspectives of time. He is talking a bout a set number of Gods Elect, each ones name is written in Gods Book of life. In the first part of the verse Jesus is confirming that every one of the elect will come to Him.
And the one who comes to Me (present tense) He will by no means cast out, because Jesus is not in the business of casting out the elect of God.

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T01:56:16-0500

BNR32FAN said:
Again you’re ignoring verse 4 where He says “abide in Me”. That is a commandment.

“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Are you saying that abiding in Christ is optional? Do you know what the word abide means?

This is what happens when you pluck verses of scripture out of their intended context.

You failed to take into consideration, who John 15:4 was spoken to. I assume you don't know, so let me help you with that, it was Jesus speaking to saved people. He was promising that they would bare fruit if they abide in Him, and He makes it clear that He is the One by whom they bare fruit.

There's no way Jesus would command unbelievers (the reprobate) to abide in Him and bare fruit, that would be a silly commandment, because Jesus knows that unbelievers hate Him, so why would He command His haters to abide in Him.

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T02:21:24-0500

BNR32FAN said:
No I don’t believe that at all because then the requirement is circular and doesn’t make any sense. Jesus calls people to repent and believe in order to be saved yet in your theology people can only comply if God has chosen them and they can’t do otherwise and those whom God has not chosen can’t comply. So why tell people to do something that they both cant comply with and can’t refuse to comply with?

It's OK to admit you don't understand Gods ways, you're in good company I don't understand His ways either.

You do know that God is a mystery, and you will never ever find out why He does what he does or how He does it.

Don't stress over it, God told us that we will never understand Him.

Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts

Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

Isaiah 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T02:39:03-0500

BNR32FAN said:
Ok so you think that 1 John 2:19 is saying that anyone who turns away was never a true believer? Because that’s not what is actually written in that passage and that interpretation directly contradicts James 5:19-20. So first of all John is talking about a specific group of people. “They went out from us” not “if anyone went out from us”. In that passage John is talking about a specific group of people who left the church. So let’s compare this to James 5:19-20.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Here James is talking about a true believer who strays from the truth of the gospel and says that his soul is in danger of death unless he is turned BACK. The key indicator that this person is a true believer is the phrase “and one turns him BACK”. If this person wasn’t a true believer to begin with he would have nothing to turn back to that would save his soul from death. Only a backslidden true believer can turn back and be saved. Now if what you’re saying is true and a true believer can’t lose their salvation then this person’s soul could never be in danger of death in the first place just like those who fail to abide in Christ in John 15:6. In fact John 15:6 would be describing an impossible scenario if it is impossible for someone to fail to remain in Christ to the point of being cast away to wither and cast into the fire to be burned since according to Calvinists no one can come to Christ unless The Father draws them. You don’t recognize that the means by which we are drawn to Christ has changed after His crucifixion according to John 12:32.

“And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.””
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭32‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In John 6:44 Jesus was talking about how people were drawn to Him at that time. In John 12:32 Jesus is talking about how people will be drawn to Him after His crucifixion. There’s a definite change in the way that we are drawn to Christ after His crucifixion and it’s thru the gospel which is why the very last words He spoke to His apostles before ascending into heaven were….

“Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.””
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

This is His plan for how He draws all men to Himself after He is raised up.

“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.””
‭‭Romans‬ ‭1‬:‭16‬-‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Notice that the gospel is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes, not for those who are allowed or chosen to believe.

The problem with your theology, is that it's not supported by any scripture at all.

Where does the Bible say that believers know who Gods Elect are, answer Nowhere.... So how do you suppose the Disciples knew who they were preaching the gospel to. Answer they never knew who the true believers were and who the Judas Iscariots were.

This is why Jesus said, go therefore and make disciples of all nations". They simply preached the gospel and Gods elect responded with the faith God gave them and believed it, while the unbelievers rejected it.
Some professed faith, but fell away because their profession was fake.

The point you fail to understand is that, it's, impossible for anyone to believe the gospel and be saved, unless God posses you and takes over your body and soul, before hand. Otherwise the gospel is foolish trash

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T02:50:50-0500

BNR32FAN said:
Congratulations you quoted 1 Corinthians 2:14-16 now read the next 5 statements Paul said and learn why he said that.

“But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one. For who has known the mind of the Lord, that he will instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2‬:‭14‬-‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

He isn’t finished here, continue reading.

“And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now you tell me are these Corinthians spiritually appraised? Are they understanding the things of the Spirit according to what Paul just said here? Are these people believers in Christ?

As far as Paul could tell, they are true believers. But Paul knew that some may be false converts. Only God and the false convert know who they are, nobody else can know for sure.

Fresh converts still retrain much of their carnal nature, nobody attains sinless perfection in this life. God does the work of transformation and sanctification, He changes our nature so we become more Christlike as we grow as Christians.

Dan1988 · 2025-10-25T02:55:34-0500

Valletta said:
The Bible is clear as to how we are saved:

Peter 3:20-21 who formerly did not obey, when God's patience waited in the days of Noah, during the building of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were saved through water. Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a clear conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. RSVCE

I don't know which Bible you study, but my Bible doesn't say any such thing. It actually confirms that "we are saved by grace" that's very different I know, so we will have to disagree

Valletta · 2025-10-25T03:12:09-0500

Dan1988 said:
I don't know which Bible you study, but my Bible doesn't say any such thing. It actually confirms that "we are saved by grace" that's very different I know, so we will have to disagree

I use a number of different Bibles, the RSVCE is one of them. I noted it at the end of the passage. You didn't say which Bible you use.

BNR32FAN · 2025-10-25T07:42:25-0500

Dan1988 said:
Every true believer knows the difference between the two types of "believe". Your obviously talking about the Demonic type. They also believe and tremble, but they will never have saving faith.

Those who joined the Apostolic bandwagon, and professed to believe, enjoyed the free Sunday lunch at Church, they met attractive young ladies, and enjoys the company of the local Church members, but they were never inwardly converted. There's was an outward superficial profession of faith. They believed that the gospel is the power to save sinners, but they also knew that it wasn't for them because God had not regenerated them or quickened them to life from their spiritually dead state.

Believing that God exists and that He is Almighty, doesn't mean that you are saved.

You’re just conjuring these explanations out of thin air without actually applying the information from the passage that we’re discussing.

“Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8‬:‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

He said when they hear the word, meaning when they hear the gospel, they receive it with joy. You’re saying the exact opposite of what Jesus said. You’re saying that they didn’t receive the word and you’re pulling this idea that they were false professors out of thin air not because of what the passage says but because it doesn’t line up with your theology. This is what happens when your doctrines dictate the scriptures instead of the scriptures dictating your doctrines. Not only that but demons acknowledge that Jesus is Lord, Calvinists say that man is incapable of doing this unless God enables him to. In order for them to “receive the word” they would have to acknowledge that Jesus is Lord which contradicts your theology. So not only did you fail to apply the information given in the passage, you also failed to apply your own doctrine of total depravity to your answer.

BNR32FAN · 2025-10-25T08:19:07-0500

Dan1988 said:
My bible tells me that I am saved by grace, so that's what I believe. You don't believe it because your denomination doesn't believe it. I mean why else would you reject what Gods has said.

In any case why do you refuse to reveal where faith comes from, let me guess your teacher told you that everyone conjures up their own.

Again what denomination am I? Grace is the free gift of God that is given to those who believe the gospel. In order to receive grace we must first believe the gospel. In Luke 7:50 Jesus told the woman

“For this reason I say to you, her sins, which are many, have been forgiven, for she loved much; but he who is forgiven little, loves little.” Then He said to her, “Your sins have been forgiven.” Those who were reclining at the table with Him began to say to themselves, “Who is this man who even forgives sins?” And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭7‬:‭47‬-‭50‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Her sins weren’t forgiven before she believed, they were forgiven after she believed. Faith is our responsibility in order to receive grace hence “what must I do to be saved?” And what was Paul’s response?

“They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.””
‭‭Acts‬ ‭16‬:‭31‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Believing is our responsibility in order to be saved. So when you ask if we’re saved by works or by grace I’m thinking about what is our part of salvation? What do we have to do to be saved? That’s why I replied that we are saved by faith because that’s what we must do, we must believe in order to be saved. Grace is the automatic result of faith.

BNR32FAN · 2025-10-25T09:44:39-0500

Dan1988 said:
I'm not sure what your issue is with the words "come" and "comes". There is nothing mystical or complicated about the words or the verse.

I think you failed to connect the dots in the verse, where Jesus describes the same event from two different perspectives of time. He is talking a bout a set number of Gods Elect, each ones name is written in Gods Book of life. In the first part of the verse Jesus is confirming that every one of the elect will come to Him.
And the one who comes to Me (present tense) He will by no means cast out, because Jesus is not in the business of casting out the elect of God.

And you’re completely ignoring John 12:32. You’re not applying that information to how we are drawn to Christ after His crucifixion.

BNR32FAN · 2025-10-25T09:53:43-0500

Dan1988 said:
This is what happens when you pluck verses of scripture out of their intended context.

You failed to take into consideration, who John 15:4 was spoken to. I assume you don't know, so let me help you with that, it was Jesus speaking to saved people. He was promising that they would bare fruit if they abide in Him, and He makes it clear that He is the One by whom they bare fruit.

There's no way Jesus would command unbelievers (the reprobate) to abide in Him and bare fruit, that would be a silly commandment, because Jesus knows that unbelievers hate Him, so why would He command His haters to abide in Him.

He specifically said ABIDE IN ME in verse 4. It’s a declarative statement telling them what they must do. That’s why he said you cannot bear fruit UNLESS YOU ABIDE IN ME. Then in verse 7 He says IF YOU ABIDE IN ME, which is clearly indicating that it is not guaranteed that they would abide in Him because that’s a choice that they had to make for themselves. And again you’re completely ignoring verse 6 where He said “If anyone does not abide in Me” which according to your theology should be an impossible statement since the word abide means to stay, remain, continue, to dwell in and according to your theology it is impossible for someone to fail to abide, stay, remain, or to dwell in Christ because they can’t be in Christ unless they’ve been drawn by The Father and they can’t turn away from Him to the point of condemnation if they’ve have been drawn by The Father according to your theology.

BNR32FAN · 2025-10-25T09:56:47-0500

Dan1988 said:
It's OK to admit you don't understand Gods ways, you're in good company I don't understand His ways either.

You do know that God is a mystery, and you will never ever find out why He does what he does or how He does it.

Don't stress over it, God told us that we will never understand Him.

Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts

Romans 11:33 Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways!

Isaiah 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? The Lord is the everlasting God, the Creator of the ends of the earth. He does not faint or grow weary; his understanding is unsearchable.

This is why you don’t understand the scriptures because when they contradict your theology you don’t try to make sense of it you just chalk it up as something we can’t understand when I’m explaining to you how we can actually understand them. They were specifically written for us to understand. The whole purpose of the scriptures is to teach us.

BNR32FAN · 2025-10-25T10:00:08-0500

Dan1988 said:
The problem with your theology, is that it's not supported by any scripture at all.

Where does the Bible say that believers know who Gods Elect are, answer Nowhere.... So how do you suppose the Disciples knew who they were preaching the gospel to. Answer they never knew who the true believers were and who the Judas Iscariots were.

This is why Jesus said, go therefore and make disciples of all nations". They simply preached the gospel and Gods elect responded with the faith God gave them and believed it, while the unbelievers rejected it.
Some professed faith, but fell away because their profession was fake.

The point you fail to understand is that, it's, impossible for anyone to believe the gospel and be saved, unless God posses you and takes over your body and soul, before hand. Otherwise the gospel is foolish trash

So you’re saying that James didn’t know about the doctrine of election? He didn’t know about irresistible grace or preservation of the saints? I would agree with you on that but then you’d have the problem of explaining why James isn’t teaching your theology because what you have here is James saying that a person can be in danger of the death of their soul and that danger can be eliminated if they repent which doesn’t work with Calvin’s theology because the elect are never in danger of the death of their soul and the unelect can’t repent and have their soul saved from death. So why doesn’t James seem to know what Calvin’s doctrine of election actually teaches? Is it because James never taught it?

BNR32FAN · 2025-10-25T10:25:11-0500

Dan1988 said:
As far as Paul could tell, they are true believers. But Paul knew that some may be false converts. Only God and the false convert know who they are, nobody else can know for sure.

Fresh converts still retrain much of their carnal nature, nobody attains sinless perfection in this life. God does the work of transformation and sanctification, He changes our nature so we become more Christlike as we grow as Christians.

No Paul was speaking to them as if they were all true believers, not as if they were a mixed group. He never makes any mention of unbelievers mixed in with the group. He’s addressing them as if he is assuming that they are all believers. He was telling them that they were acting like natural men because they were not setting their mind on the Spirit. Yet even tho they were NOT spiritually appraised they were in fact ABLE TO REPENT AND BELIEVE THE GOSPEL. Thats why I asked you the question are they spiritually appraised and are they believers? No they were not spiritually appraised and yet they were able to repent and believe the gospel.

2PhiloVoid · 2025-10-25T10:31:39-0500

Dan1988 said:
I don't believe that Gods Word is open to various interpretations. There is no wiggle room, when it comes to the imperative, (essential) doctrines.

Gods sovereignty over every aspect of His creation, is the most rejected of all bible doctrines. The Bible does confirm that God is sovereign over the smallest things, such as the number of hairs on your head, and right through to the big ticket things such as, who will be saved and who will be left in their unregenerate condemned state.

Most Christian denominations reject Gods Word, when it speaks about Gods sovereign decrees, predestination onto salvation. And when we read about God tormenting sinners for eternity in hell fire. Many of these Christian Denominations, don't believe that God allows evil doers to rape and murder His children. Even though the Bible is clear that nothing can happen apart from Gods will.

Various Denominations interpret and teach radically different and opposing versions of the gospel. It's OK to have different views on the inconsequential doctrines, such as eschatology, but it's not OK to fellowship with others at the expense of the gospel truth.

The Ecumenical Movement, requires it's subscribers to sacrifice some of their core beliefs, for the sake of "Christian Unity".

When it come to interpreting and understanding Gods Word, the Bible tells us that spiritual things cannot be understood by the natural man, (unconverted man). It states that the things of God are foolishness to him, and he can't receive them because they are spiritually discerned (only understood by those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit).

The Holy Spirit leads saved people, into all truth. The Bible describes those whom God has not regenerated and quickened to life as "blind", they can see with their eyes but they can't comprehend spiritual things. God is Spirit, so it is impossible for the natural man to believe in God.

Many professing Christians are self deluded, they are not actually converted or saved. Jesus describes them as "many will come t Me on that day, saying Lord Lord. But He tells them to depart from Him into the lake of fire, because He never knew them".

Proverbs 14:12 There is a way that seems right to a man, But its end is the way of death.

In the same way, many approach the Bible with a certain expectation and they presume upon the Lord. They base their understanding on their own wisdom and discernment, instead of being instructed by Gods Word, they make Gods Word conform to their views.

The Bible confirms that every single person is born dead in sin, this means that it is impossible for them to respond to the gospel message with faith. The only way a person receives the gospel, is if God first gives them the gift of faith, so when they hear the gospel they do believe it.

Faith is not something that everyone is born with, nor can anyone produce or manufacture their own faith. It is the gift of God, lest anyone boast.

God only made two covenants with man, 1. was the Covenant of the Law. And 2. is the Covenant of Grace. Adam was under the covenant of the law and everyone after him is under the covenant of grace.

You may think that man contributes something to his salvation, but we have verses like >>> John 15:5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing".

And

1 Corinthians 4:7 "For who makes you differ from another? And what do you have that you did not receive? Now if you did indeed receive it, why do you boast as if you had not received it?"

While I generally agree with much of what you're saying here, (minus anything that invokes a Strong, Double-Predestinarian, Calvinist position to support,) I notice you skirted around and left unaddressed what I stated or asked.

Bull-dozing others, however "prophetically" you think doing so is, isn't really a compassionate nor mutually beneficent way to have discussion with other, fellow Christians, and I don't think Jesus, Paul, Peter, James or John can be cited in support of your way of talking to others here.

You're a hair's breadth away from flagrantly being disrespectful of the rules of Christian Forums. I hope you realize that.

Who then can be saved?

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He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

He’s a Way of life

Critically cutting wicked webs!

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