Chicago principal claims teacher who made sick Charlie Kirk gesture is the victim

ThatRobGuy said:

So she thinks it's funny/cool for "others" to get killed for expressing a political viewpoint, but not her personally?

She's exhibited a double standard there, yes?

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You’re talking about the principal or the teacher? Idk how the teacher feels about it and I don’t care. I’m commenting on the principal getting death threats at the school. It’s her job to protect everyone at her school, even her staff making stupid, insensitive jokes.

Chesterton said:

What is?

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The application process has changed and human involvement is minimal. I posted a video about it yesterday. It’s the one on Harvard grads.

bèlla said:

The application process has changed and human involvement is minimal. I posted a video about it yesterday. It’s the one on Harvard grads.

Stranger Things

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But again, what does that have to do with what I said?

ThatRobGuy said:

But I don't feel much sympathy knowing she would've been the exact same type of person who would've gloated and celebrated at the doxxing and firing of her political opponents 3-5 years ago.

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What? Where did that come from? That is a rather specific accusation.

ThatRobGuy said:

Chicago principal claims teacher who made sick Charlie Kirk gesture is the victim — but makes no mention of her behavior

Lucy Martinez, a teacher at Nathan Hale Elementary School, was recorded putting a finger to her neck and pretending to pull the trigger during a No Kings protest in the city over the weekend.

nypost.com

The principal of a Chicago public school painted a teacher who went viral for apparently mocking Charlie Kirk’s assassination as the victim in a letter to parents — and made no mention of the accusations against her.

Lucy Martinez, a teacher at Nathan Hale Elementary School, was recorded putting a finger to her neck and pretending to pull the trigger during a No Kings protest in the city over the weekend.


Is it "cancel culture" or "accountability culture"?

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Are you really concerned about what some woman did in Chicago? Do you really think that what she did represents something important? Is this such a critical event that it needs reporting by a 'news' outlet?

Well, alrighty then.

People are still adapting to the fact that everything in life is recorded.

ThatRobGuy said:

That was part of my point...

I've seen a lot of social media backlash to this woman facing consequences up to and including doxxing and people demanding she be fired.

But I don't feel much sympathy knowing she would've been the exact same type of person who would've gloated and celebrated at the doxxing and firing of her political opponents 3-5 years ago.

In a purist sense, I don't ever think anyone's "outside of work" activities should impact their employment if they're good at their job...but the battle lines were drawn and other people made certain rules on that.

And it's inconsistent if they only want those rules selectively applied to people from the other political team.

It's concept known as "hoisted by their own petard"

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I think it's a little different. I do absolutely believe in freedom of speech - to me it's a part of the reason I was able to hear about Christ and be saved. The religious and other freedoms we have are super valuable

So I don't generally like the idea of cancel culture, especially having been censored for speech, I don't think people should be doxxed or harassed - especially over nonsense.

However, I do think the new assassination culture and threat's of insurrection and other stuff kinda changes things because it's becoming actual public safety concerns.

The guy running for AG in Virginia has homicidal ideation of his political rivals - to include fantasizing about the murder of innocent children - babies.

Let's face it that guy can't be trusted to be AG of anything. You don't want him in any position outside of perhaps as a cashier somewhere not in your town.

It's similar when we are talking about people who are charged with the care and teaching of children, or with people responsible for things like the healthcare of the elderly and infirm.

I don't want to go under the knife of a surgeon who fantasizes my death, for example, or send my grandchildren to a school under the care of teacher's who feel the same.

My daughter was verbally abused by her atheist science teacher for believing in God some 20 years ago, and we put up with that kind of thing but now they are openly saying they want to kill people who wouldn't hurt anyone.

How safe are our grandchildren under the care of people like this. I'm glad that teacher got her 15 minutes of fame but I do hope that parents of that school district are able to remove that teacher, she shouldn't be over kids.

She's not the victim of anything, .

People should lose their job if they like the idea of killing innocent unarmed peope for holding views they find objectionable. It's a bridge.

ThatRobGuy said:

It would be a tad bit concerning given she's a k-8 teacher.

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No, it's actually not. You want to make a big deal out of it then you go with the NYP and express some suitable outrage. I know what I think about that rag of a 'newspaper' that posts such dross. You are free to pick those with whom you wish to share such outrage.

ThatRobGuy said:

Right, but we lived through the era where if someone told an "offensive joke" nine years ago, it justified getting them fired in the present day and it was considered "accountability culture" (as a rebuttal to accusations of "cancel culture")

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If it was just people demanding that she be fired, that would be one thing. If you're in a public-facing job and you do something stupid or offensive in public, getting fired is a natural consequence. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. Just like she should not have mimed Charlie Kirk's death, people should also not be sending her death threats or be making threats towards the school that she works at.

Bradskii said:

No, it's actually not.

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You don't think homicidal ideation is a deal breaker for a teacher of young children? Miming murder not too much for you?

I'm just curious, is it because you feel like it's okay because it's not people with your beliefs she wants to eradicate?

If she was your child's teacher do you trust her not to teach kids it's okay to kill people for having an opinion that might not be popular? Do you trust she won't be teaching kids that there's certain groups of people who should be killed?

Chesterton said:

Accountability. I have socio-political beliefs similar to Kirk's.

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Are you sure you want to go there? Kirk was connected with groups like the Seven Mountains Mandate and the New Apostolic Reformation. You won't get much sympathy for Kirk's murder by invoking his political views. No one deserves to be murdered, even for peddling filth, and there is no need to bring the filth into it.

BCP1928 said:

Are you sure you want to go there? Kirk was connected with groups like the Seven Mountains Mandate and the New Apostolic Reformation. You won't get much sympathy for Kirk's murder by invoking his political views. No one deserves to be murdered, even for peddling filth, and there is no need to bring the filth into it.

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"...was connected with..." Anyway I don't think their beliefs are filth.

This is off-topic, but it's something I've always wondered: why do some people such as yourself label themselves "Other Religion" instead of saying which religion you are?

RocksInMyHead said:

If it was just people demanding that she be fired, that would be one thing. If you're in a public-facing job and you do something stupid or offensive in public, getting fired is a natural consequence. But that doesn't seem to be the case here. Just like she should not have mimed Charlie Kirk's death, people should also not be sending her death threats or be making threats towards the school that she works at.

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Two wrongs don't make a right.

No one should be threatened, people shouldn't fear getting murdered as they go about their day. We should all be safe from criminals

But saying well she received threats so it's okay for her to teach kids when she clearly has issues, makes her teaching children questionable at best.

Let's say she was high and on drugs and had no idea what she was doing and would but for the one occasion be a safe individual. Can we promise for the next individual or the next if we decide praising murder is acceptable?

What's the next normal thing going to be after cold blooded murder is celebrated anyway?

Can we not as a society say this is not okay to tolerate? When can we say no more? What should we wait for?

I would hope threats are prosecuted - they are supposed to be We have laws.

While she didn't commit a specific crime it was a demonstration of what kind of person she might be in her classroom, and what kind of things she finds socially acceptable.

I don't think any are. Unless it's random sabre ratting over a war we are engaging in that is unserious, I don't give threats and don't see them as appropriate (countries sabre ratting is different) to a civilized people or a positive idea for society writ large.

BCP1928 said:

Are you sure you want to go there? Kirk was connected with groups like the Seven Mountains Mandate and the New Apostolic Reformation. You won't get much sympathy for Kirk's murder by invoking his political views. No one deserves to be murdered, even for peddling filth, and there is no need to bring the filth into it.

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Charlie Kirk didn't go around preaching his brand of Christianity, instead he kept most conversations to basic positions taught within the Christian faith (writ large) such as marriage being between one woman and one man and would debate on, for example, why he might have thought that position was societally positive (for example studies show strong two parent families are more likely to have children that finish highschool and college, less likely to be drop outs, even from families making a lower income than a single parent etc)

He didn't specifically preach, just put forward a position - or rather he allowed others to do so - and then he argued why he thought his position was good from a more societal position than a religious one. It was perhaps a little of both but he normally stayed in the general and not in any denominational weeds.

He wasn't a preacher, nor was he preaching. Just explaining social positions from his largely moderate conservative Christian stance that many Christians might largely agree with.

Chesterton said:

"...was connected with..." Anyway I don't think their beliefs are filth.

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They have rejected the NIcene Creed as a basic statement of the Christian faith yet use the name of Christ to advance a Christian nationalist political agenda.

Chesterton said:

This is off-topic, but it's something I've always wondered: why do some people such as yourself label themselves "Other Religion" instead of saying which religion you are?

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I don't want to be seen as speaking for my faith group, with which I sometimes disagree. If you really want to know, here is a plain clue in my screen name.

BCP1928 said:

They have rejected the NIcene Creed as a basic statement of the Christian faith yet use the name of Christ to advance a Christian nationalist political agenda.

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Obviously I disagree but filth seems like too strong a word.

BCP1928 said:

I don't want to be seen as speaking for my faith group, with which I sometimes disagree.

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Fair enough I guess.

BCP1928 said:

If you really want to know, here is a plain clue in my screen name.

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Ha, I should have caught that.

Hazelelponi said:

...do you trust her not to teach kids it's okay to kill people for having an opinion that might not be popular? Do you trust she won't be teaching kids that there's certain groups of people who should be killed?

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I'm sure she'll squeeze into the curriculum without anyone noticing. In the meantime your president is literally blowing people up on the high seas without even a hint of evidence. If you're worried about people being killed it seems to me that the conversations should at least be centered around those actually being killed.

But maybe you're right. Mimicking people being shot, even if she wouldn't want that to happen, is in bad taste.

French outrage after US President Trump mimics Paris attackers. He mimicked gunmen summoning and shooting victims one by one, saying "Boom! Come over here!" and using his hand to imitate a gun being fired.​

BCP1928 said:

They have rejected the NIcene Creed as a basic statement of the Christian faith yet use the name of Christ to advance a Christian nationalist political agenda.

I don't want to be seen as speaking for my faith group, with which I sometimes disagree. If you really want to know, here is a plain clue in my screen name.

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I’ve got it but I don’t want to dox you