Hamas now executing Palestinians who tried to help peace.

DaisyDay said:

The reason many European nations refuse to extradite US citizens back to the US is because we, the US, execute our own citizens. How is this such an outrage when we do it ourselves?

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Do you believe Hamas implementing capital punishment to its citizens without trial is equivalent to the US judicial process, where a unanimous verdict from twelve jurors is required for capital punishment?

Hentenza said:

Really? I guess all executions should happen in front of people including kids. I agree with the death penalty and you have your right to your opinion but proposing public executions again is reverting back quite a few years. Animals that kill people have no business being part of society.

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I didn't propose public executions; I said I don't think private executions are so much better. It is you who wants executions, not I.

Animals are a part of society.

Hentenza said:

I told you why but you dismissed it without explanation.

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No, you didn't say why then, but you have now.

Hentenza said:

It is a fail because you are comparing a legal, for cause criminal execution with a barbaric, illegal execution in a public place.

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Why is that a fail? You're comparing a battlefield execution - which is not necessarily either illegal or without cause particularly in a place without any courts or courthouses left standing - nothing but rubble. Most private places have been blown to smithereens. I thought the cause given was collaborating with the enemy, which, as treason, would be cause for execution here as well, theoretically.

How is being shot in the head more barbaric than South Carolina's firing squad? Is it really so much more civilized to shoot them in the torso? Texas still hangs people - how is that less barbaric?

Hentenza said:

No. I want to see you condemn Hamas for their barbaric actions.

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And I want to see world peace. I condemn Hamas for executing their own citizens just as I condemn all nations that do so.

Apparently, it's not the "executing their own citizens" that is the real sticking point, as you support it when it's done "properly". Again, I think executing neighboring citizens or even citizens from the other side of the world is more egregious than executing one's own.

Nithavela said:

There is a difference between executions after a judicial process with several decades worth of appeals and just accusing people and shooting them like dogs in the street.

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Yeah, a lot of people here don't get several decades worth of appeals while others do. Three decades is the record so far for longest and less than a year the record for shortest in Texas:

Nithavela said:

I don't agree with either, but I recognise that they are not equivalent.

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There is also a difference between a [somewhat] stable, first world country at peace and a occupied, war torn country that's been largely destroyed. Even the US has separate laws for peacetime and wartime battlefield executions.

FAITH-IN-HIM said:

Do you believe Hamas implementing capital punishment to its citizens without trial is equivalent to the US judicial process, where a unanimous verdict from twelve jurors is required for capital punishment?

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Do you think the situations of the two governments are equivalent? Does Gaza even have courts now?

The US with all its courts and lawyers have nevertheless executed innocent people even if it did take its own sweet time with it. Remember, the Supreme Court ruled that actual innocence is not sufficient cause to stay the death penalty if procedure was followed.

Please note, I am not defending Hamas' executing its own citizens but equally condemning our doing so. "Its own citizens" is not the sticking point; obviously, the actual problem with so many are defending executions per se, it's perhaps the lack of due process?

Always in His Presence said:

Know who you are supporting:

The original 1988 Hamas Charter includes deeply antisemitic language, referencing conspiracy theories and calling for the destruction of Israel. It states that “Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it” and refers to Jews in hostile, conspiratorial terms.
• The charter also promotes jihad as a religious duty and glorifies martyrdom, stating: “Jihad is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes”.

• Fathi Hammad, a senior Hamas official, said in a 2019 speech:
  
  
• “Oh, you Jews, the curse of Allah upon you, you who have angered Allah. The day of your slaughter and annihilation is near.”

From the Hamas 1988 charter:

“The Day of Judgment will not come until Muslims fight the Jews, killing the Jews.”

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1) Do you even know what a jihad is?

2) Sunni Arabs well understand just how bad Hamas is. That is why they were shocked when ISRAEL helped them to come to power in Gaza.

That is why the Sunnis have quietly celebrated the defeat of Shia terrorist by Israel (and sometimes even ISIS Sunni terrorists).
==========
The US has been trying to broker a long-term truce for decades and only has succeeded with Egypt and Jordan. A Palestine state was offered to Arafat; he refused.

TRUMP has ignored the internal politics of the Arab countries and has focused on world interest for a lasting peace. With God's help, the Abraham Accords will expend to Suadi Arabia and the Arab countries will be willing to CONTINUE to oppose Shiite terrorists in Gaza and the West bank/

DaisyDay said:

I didn't propose public executions; I said I don't think private executions are so much better. It is you who wants executions, not I.

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We are talking about Hamas executing, without a trial, 7 to people by shooting them in the head in a public setting. You did not object to that and are still think that there is no difference. I find that problematic and hypocritical. You have still nit condemned Hamas for killing their own people.

DaisyDay said:

Animals are a part of society.

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Not the human animals that murder men, women, and children. Unless you think that those should live among us.

DaisyDay said:

No, you didn't say why then, but you have now.

Why is that a fail? You're comparing a battlefield execution - which is not necessarily either illegal or without cause particularly in a place without any courts or courthouses left standing - nothing but rubble. Most private places have been blown to smithereens. I thought the cause given was collaborating with the enemy, which, as treason, would be cause for execution here as well, theoretically.

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Hamas did not conduct a battlefield execution. They murdered people that they thought were against them without a trial. You do not condone any kind of execution according to your earlier post but condone the murder of seven people accused, not convicted, for being collaborators. That is why your argument fails.

DaisyDay said:

How is being shot in the head more barbaric than South Carolina's firing squad? Is it really so much more civilized to shoot them in the torso? Texas still hangs people - how is that less barbaric?

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Because these are judicial, legal executions. Look, as I stated before, if you are opposed to capital punishment that us your choice but at least be consistent.

DaisyDay said:

And I want to see world peace. I condemn Hamas for executing their own citizens just as I condemn all nations that do so.

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Great. That wasn’t that hard was it?

DaisyDay said:

Apparently, it's not the "executing their own citizens" that is the real sticking point, as you support it when it's done "properly". Again, I think executing neighboring citizens or even citizens from the other side of the world is more egregious than executing one's own.

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It’s all about the context and legality.

Always in His Presence said:

Do you mean the religious duty that glorifies martyrdom, and is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes”.

That jihad? Because that is the one I am referring to - well..... the one they are referring to.

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You may choose to believe that Islam is what the terrorists teach. That is indeed one interpretation of Islam.

Or you can choose to believe what more moderate Muslims teach based on the teachings of Muhammed. As with Christianity, many on the extreme use one or two quotations from Scripture or even of actions to justify their personal goals.

Of course, many started following the violent factions of Islam from a couple of centuries after Muhammed. The split came even earlier. But the choice of believing that this is what Muhammed taught is yours and the terrorists. You can choose to believe with the terrorists or with the more mainstream Muslims.

Always in His Presence said:

Do you mean the religious duty that glorifies martyrdom, and is its path and death for the sake of Allah is the loftiest of its wishes”.

That jihad? Because that is the one I am referring to - well..... the one they are referring to.

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You don't seem to know much about what jihad means within Islam.

Desk trauma said:

Defending their execution of rivals is very much defending them. As I said, they have been doing this since they were consolidating power after the election in 06. This isn’t a product of social break down due to the war, its standard operating procedure.

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Understanding (and explaining that understanding to others) Hamas’ extra-judicial killings ≠defending.

Always in His Presence said:

If you are not able to see the difference between tried in a court of law - found guilty by a jury of your peers and meeting the special circumstances - which is in only 27 of 50 states - and dragging people out of their homes, blindfolding them and blowing their brains out in front of their neighbors. You will most likely have continued difficulty in telling the difference.

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Sure I see the difference but the initial pearl clutching was over the absolute horror of Hamas "executing its own citizens" - which is something we do albeit in a long drawn out process. We execute Central American fishermen without any trial or other niceties - but that's someone else's citizen and we did it with missiles instead of bullets, from a distance not close up so we're totally civilized while they're the barbarians.

DaisyDay said:

I didn't propose public executions; I said I don't think private executions are so much better. It is you who wants executions, not I.

Animals are a part of society.

No, you didn't say why then, but you have now.

Why is that a fail? You're comparing a battlefield execution - which is not necessarily either illegal or without cause particularly in a place without any courts or courthouses left standing - nothing but rubble. Most private places have been blown to smithereens. I thought the cause given was collaborating with the enemy, which, as treason, would be cause for execution here as well, theoretically.

How is being shot in the head more barbaric than South Carolina's firing squad? Is it really so much more civilized to shoot them in the torso? Texas still hangs people - how is that less barbaric?

And I want to see world peace. I condemn Hamas for executing their own citizens just as I condemn all nations that do so.

Apparently, it's not the "executing their own citizens" that is the real sticking point, as you support it when it's done "properly". Again, I think executing neighboring citizens or even citizens from the other side of the world is more egregious than executing one's own.

Yeah, a lot of people here don't get several decades worth of appeals while others do. Three decades is the record so far for longest and less than a year the record for shortest in Texas:

According to TDCJ's Death Row Facts page, the average length of time spent on death row prior to execution is 11 years, the shortest time on death row prior to execution was 252 days and the longest time spent on death row before an execution was 31 years. The average age of inmates executed is 39 and the youngest man executed was at age 24.​

(Beaumont Enterprise link)​

​

There is also a difference between a [somewhat] stable, first world country at peace and a occupied, war torn country that's been largely destroyed. Even the US has separate laws for peacetime and wartime battlefield executions.

Do you think the situations of the two governments are equivalent? Does Gaza even have courts now?

The US with all its courts and lawyers have nevertheless executed innocent people even if it did take its own sweet time with it. Remember, the Supreme Court ruled that actual innocence is not sufficient cause to stay the death penalty if procedure was followed.

Please note, I am not defending Hamas' executing its own citizens but equally condemning our doing so. "Its own citizens" is not the sticking point; obviously, the actual problem with so many are defending executions per se, it's perhaps the lack of due process?

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Your point regarding capital punishment is noted. As an individual who identifies as pro-life and maintains the belief that life begins at birth and ends at death, I do not endorse capital punishment. While this issue warrants thoughtful discussion and debate, it should be recognized that—despite my personal stance—capital punishment remains a component of the United States legal system. Additionally, the U.S. judiciary upholds a comprehensive review process prior to the execution of any capital sentence.

Capital punishment remains a subject of debate, with some states having abolished it while others retain the practice. Although my perspective may differ from those Americans who support capital punishment, I appreciate our nation's commitment to fostering substantive dialogue, advocacy, and democratic participation through voting on legislation. Given current political circumstances, significant changes to national policy on capital punishment are unlikely in the near future. The principles of debate, voting, and advocacy are important elements of society. In a democratic system, the majority determines whether to maintain or end capital punishment, making it necessary to respect collective decisions regarding the judicial system.

In contrast, this is not the case in Gaza, where a non-elected governing entity exercises power without representing the population's will and enforces capital punishment absent due process. Drawing parallels between this approach and the U.S. judiciary is therefore preposterous.

Always in His Presence said:

If you are not able to see the difference between tried in a court of law - found guilty by a jury of your peers and meeting the special circumstances - which is in only 27 of 50 states - and dragging people out of their homes, blindfolding them and blowing their brains out in front of their neighbors. You will most likely have continued difficulty in telling the difference.

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It is true that the Venezuelan citizens we continue to blow up aren't killed in front of their relatives. So, yes, there is a great difference. I'm sure that I missed the reports of the arrests and trials.

The silence from the “free Palestine” crowd is deafening. Would have thought that freeing Palestine would include freeing it from an oppressive terrorist organization.

MrMoe said:

The silence from the “free Palestine” crowd is deafening. Would have thought that freeing Palestine would include freeing it from an oppressive terrorist organization.

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That cannot be accomplished in a day.

Give it a year.