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The Reality of Free Will

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Hentenza

Hentenza

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concretecamper said:
So what, you still have free will. An alcoholic who cannot choose not to drink (BECAUSE OF HIS PREVIOUS FREE WILL CHOICES) can be moral in other matters.
Click to expand...
That's not complete moral freedom, that is limited moral freedom.
Man does not have complete moral freedom.
concretecamper said:
You can post Jn 8:34 10 more times, it is not a passage against free will.
Click to expand...
Slaves are not free.
 
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concretecamper

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childeye 2

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CoreyD said:
Did God create his intelligent children with free will?
Though many whether religious or non religious claim not, and argue against this, the answer is clearly yes.

What is the proof?
There are a number of scriptures, but let's start with John 8:44


Starting with God's heavenly children - the spirit creation, called angels, the Bible says of the one called Devil and Satan... When he lies, he speaks out of his own character. That is... pertaining to self, or of his own.
The disciple James uses this term in this way...

James 1:14

Jesus thus makes clear that the angel that became Satan the Devil, acts according to his own will, or desire.
Jesus further states in the same verse, John 8:44... "your will is to do your father’s desires".
Humans too, have their own will, which is in opposition to the father.

Can sin be blamed for the will of intelligent creatures?
Jesus said, the one called Devil and Satan, "was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him".
So, no, this was a deliberate opposing of the truth. Hence, the name Satan.

It's also important to note that this angel .... in fact all of the angels... none are born in sin and shaped in iniquity.
So, sin cannot be claimed as a hinderance to free will. Nor can it be claimed that they have to give in to wrong desires.
The angels make their own decisions to do what the want. Genesis 6:2
Proof that the angels - God's heavenly children, do have free will.

Regarding humans, the same apply.
In saying that their will is to do Satan's desire, what was Jesus pointing out? They were acting on their own will. Not anyone else's.
That humans have free will is made clear in other scriptures.

1 Timothy 2:14

The Bible says Adam was not deceived.
Thus Adam acted on his own free will.
The verse says, Eve became a sinner, only after acting on her desire.
Adam and Eve were free willed agents... not driven by sin, but making free willed decisions.
Proof that humans... God's earthly children were created with free will.

Did sin somehow cancel out free will.
In the imagination of many, that is the case.
However, the Bible does not say that after sin came into the world through one man, that free will became obsolete.
Rather, the scriptures refer to man's free will, repeatedly.
Leviticus 1:3; 1 Corinthians 9:16-18 Deuteronomy 30:19; 2 Corinthians 9:7; Philemon 1:14

The Greek word hekousios - meaning free will, is the neuter of a derivative from hekon; voluntariness -- willingly, which is (an adjective, a primitive term) – properly, willing; "unforced, of one's own will, voluntary" (J. Thayer), i.e. acting on one's own accord. The root (hek-) emphasizes intentional, deliberate action (choice), i.e. "of free-will" (J. Thayer).
Click to expand...
Please keep in mind that my comments about the "Will" are strictly in the moral/immoral context.

The definition of freewill in Greek that you have given above is an adjective, not a noun. It describes a certain type of action or choice that is uncoerced/voluntary.

Elsewhere, you identify a free will as a free agent. That term is describing a will in a state of equivocation between two masters and therefore is for all intents and purposes depicting an undecided soul in a state of equivocation ---> See doublemindedness, also understand why Jesus would say this ---> "You can't serve two masters".

Neither of these meanings are applicable to any description consistent with Adam being made with a free will. I can't actually comment on the scriptures you provided as 'proof' of a free will since the definitions of free will you provided are inconsistent. For the sake of clarity, you need to specify what the will is free from when you claim a free will.

The only coherent meaning of the term free will as a noun that I can see in scripture is a will qualified as free from sin. That would also be consistent with the free will that God gave Adam when he was created.
 
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