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The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

Hentenza

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Yes, many stop at John3:16 and miss out on what not to do to accept the gift He is trying to give John 3:19-21
I am a Christian and have fully accepted the gospel of good news. John 3:19-21 speaks nothing about the Jewish law being commanded of the Christian.
 
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Hentenza

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Jesus’ two great commandments are traditionally understood as a summary of the Decalogue.

Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.
Yep. Except the 4th commandment is not included.
 
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Hentenza

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"Sin boldly" didn't sound like much of a strawman to me when I first heard it.

What do you thinnk?
Claiming that I’m arguing “sinning boldly” is a Strawman.
 
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fhansen

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I didn’t realize that the Catholic Church followed the Jewish law. Note to self: add that to the rest of their doctrinal errors.

Your argument above is a Strawman and I’ll let you figure that out on your own.
How is it even remotely a strawman? It was simply the truth, a pretty well-presented understanding of the Christian faith. Either way, all mainstream churches Catholic and non-Catholic continued to uphold the necessity of obeying the ten commandments. It's only a novel understanding that might think otherwise. Are you antinomian? Do you think Christians are given a reprieve from the requirement to be personally righteous and act accordingly? Can we sin away while being only delcared to be righteous? Satan would certainly applaud such a "theology".

The new convenant is not about whether or not one must be righteous; it's about how one obtains that righteousness, on his own or by and with the Holy Spirit, by and with God now.
 
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Colo Millz

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Yep. Except the 4th commandment is not included.
Leaving aside that weird statement (why shouldn't the sabbath be honored as part of "love your God"?)

... so that seems to mean you think that the decalog is included.

So the "Jewish law" is included in Jesus' commands.
 
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Hentenza

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How is it even remotely a strawman? It was simply the truth, a pretty well-presented understanding of the Christian faith. Either way, all mainstream churches Catholic and non-Catholic continued to uphold the necessity of obeying the ten commandments. It's only a novel understanding that might think otherwise. Are you antinomian? Do you think Christians are given a reprieve from the requirement to be personally righteous and act accordingly? Can we sin away while being only delcared to be righteous? Satan would certainly applaud such a "theology".

The new convenant is not about whether or not one must be righteous; it's about how one obtains that righteousness, on his own or by and with the Holy Spirit, by and with God now.
Do you worship on Saturday? Do you keep the Jewish Sabbath holy?
 
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fhansen

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Eternal life is the result of the new birth (Jn 3:3-5) by the sovereign choice (Jn 3:6-8) of the Holy Spirit.

We do not lose eternal life (Jn 10:28-29).
Yes, we cannot, in your conceptualization where Scripture is viewed narrowly.
 
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Colo Millz

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Because that is not my argument.
Your argument is as follows:

Jesus "fulfilled the law" (Greek plēroō) so there are no more requirements of any "Jewish law" on us.

Um - what about the ten commandments?

STRAWMAN!

I'm sure you're just going to reply to this with "nope" or something like that.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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I am a Christian and have fully accepted the gospel of good news. John 3:19-21 speaks nothing about the Jewish law being commanded of the Christian.
Sin is the transgression of God's Law Deut 4:13 Exo 20:6, not mans 1John3:4 James 2:11-12. Man does not dictate to God what His Laws are because we are not God. God wrote it and spoke it plainly Exo 31:18, so we will have no excuses when He returns.
 
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fhansen

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Do you worship on Saturday? Do you keep the Jewish Sabbath holy?
No, we fulfill the Sabbath requirement, that obligation to God, on the Lord's Day as Christians always have. That's a way in which the Spirit of the law is still fulfilled-and can't be used to, for example, now condone murder since the Law forbids it.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Jesus never plucked out the 4th commandment and treated it different than the other 9 commandments. Why breaking one the way God said, we break them all James 2:11-12. The Sabbath is eternally tied to God's character, points to Him as our Creator Exo 20:11 and our Sanctifier Eze 20:12 because man cannot sanctify a day, nor sanctify themselves Isa 66:17 we need God. Why we are told not to add to God's Word Pro 30:5-6 not a jot or tittle can be passed, yet alone a whole commandment.

Keeping another day holy in lieu of God's holy day according to His Testimony Exo 20:8-11 Isa 58:13 Exo 31:18 and instead keeping mans traditions we are warned if listening to will be cheated Col2:8 as Jesus said when we lay aside the commandments of God in lieu of traditions, we are falsely worshiping Him Mar 7:7-13 Mat 15: 3-14 Eze 22:26. Jesus wants us to come out of this false teaching and back to worshipping the Creator Rev 14:7
 
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fhansen

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A huge difference. If the law is still required then Jesus sacrifice was for nothing.
The law is no longer our master, God is; that's the differnce between the old and new covenants! He fulfills the law in us; He 'puts it in our minds and writes it on our hearts'.
 
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Studyman

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You say:​

You’re correct that Jesus did not perform Levitical rituals — but not because those laws were “added” later as a temporary system separate from God’s true Law.
Scripture says those sacrifices were part of the Mosaic covenant itself given through Moses at Sinai, not “added after” the golden calf.

Exodus 24:6–8

Thank you for actually reading my post before responding this time, I very much appreciate it.

OK, so lets look at the verse you use to support the religious philosophy that a common man that sinned, was required by God's LAW, to take a goat to the Levite Priest, to provide for the remission of his sins the "FIRST TIME" Moses went up on the mount.

First, God made His Offer of a Covenant to the people, same as He did Abraham some 430 years earlier.

Ex. 19: 4 Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself. 5 Now therefore, "if ye will obey" my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, "then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me" above all people: for all the earth is mine:

6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, "and an holy nation". These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, "and laid before their faces" all these words which the LORD commanded him.

8 And "all the people" answered together, and said, "All that the LORD hath spoken "we will do". And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.

After this, in chapter 20, God gave the People His 10 Commandments.

You will notice, if you are interested in what is actually written, that there is NO WHERE in this agreement between God and the people, where THIS Law was given to them "Because of Transgressions". So according to what God actually teaches, these Laws were not "ADDED" because of Transgressions at all. There was a LAW "ADDED", but as anyone can clearly see, it wasn't the 10 Commandments, it wasn't Passover, it wasn't God's Sabbath. It's right there before your own eyes.

So what does the verse you referenced actually say?

Ex. 24: 1 And he said unto Moses, Come up unto the LORD, thou, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel; and worship ye afar off. 2 And Moses alone shall come near the LORD: but they shall not come nigh; neither shall the people go up with him. 3 And Moses came and told the people all the words of the LORD, and all the judgments: and all the people answered with one voice, and said, "All the words which the LORD hath said will we do". 4 And Moses wrote all the words of the LORD, and rose up early in the morning, and builded an altar under the hill, and twelve pillars, according to the twelve tribes of Israel. 5 And he sent young men of the children of Israel, which offered burnt offerings, and sacrificed peace offerings of oxen unto the LORD. 6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar. 7 And he took the book of the covenant, and "read in the audience of the people": "and they said", All that the LORD hath said "will we do", and be obedient.

8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold "the blood of the covenant", which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.

Where does God or Moses require that a man bring a goat to a Levite Priest for the remission of his sins? Please show me in the verses you referenced? Remember, the "LAW" Paul is speaking to that was "ADDED", wasn't ADDED until 430 years after Abraham.

Men have offered peace offerings and burnt offerings to God since the beginning. "And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering:"

Gen. 4: 18 And Noah went forth, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him: 19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds, went forth out of the ark. 20 And Noah builded an altar unto the LORD; and took of every clean beast, and of every clean fowl, and "offered" burnt offerings on the altar.

Gen. 22: 13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and "offered" him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

Ex. 10: 24 And Pharaoh called unto Moses, and said, Go ye, serve the LORD; only let your flocks and your herds be stayed: let your little ones also go with you. 25 And Moses said, Thou must give us also sacrifices and burnt offerings, that we may sacrifice unto the LORD our God.

So MS, just look at all the lies and deceptions that you and I have been influenced by that are exposed in just these few verses.

Exposed Lie #1. The Entire Law that God gave to Moses was "ADDED" "Because of Transgressions".

As you can see by accepting the Word's of God in your own Bible, this is a false teaching that this world's religions have promoted to both of us since our youth, and long before that.

Exposed Lie #2. The "LAW" Commanding a common man to bring a goat to a Levite Priest in order to provide for the forgiveness of his sins, was Commanded by God to Israel, before Israel broke the Covenant, "Ratified in Blood" the First Time Moses went up to God.

As you can see, there were no Commandment of God "Commanding" a common man to sacrifice animals for his sins anywhere before Israel broke the Covenant they had made with God.

Exposed lie #4. The practice of free will sacrifices and burnt offerings to God existed long before even Abraham was born, and were part a true believers honor towards God before Moses even Left Egypt. These are symbolic of the Glory, honor and respect true believers show to God through their obedient works. These were not part of the "LAW" Paul spoke to that were not "ADDED" until 430 years after Abraham.

If men could just turn away from the internet preachers, and place their trust in God, or as Paul teaches, "Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members (Eyes, hands, feet,) as instruments of righteousness unto God.

If only you and I could engage in honest discussion and answer each others questions in search of God's Righteousness, there is so much influence from the "course of this world" that can be exposed, just as the 4 deceptions we have already exposed.

I asked you once to answer me, "Why did God tell Moses to get out of His way so HE could wipe Israel out?" I would also ask, since you are on this forum preaching to me, "Why did Moses have to go up to God a 2nd time?" Wasn't the "covenant" God made with them already established?

Again, if a man would turn away from this world's religious system, including the religious websites, and place their trust in God, you will find that Israel "Broke the Covenant". It was gone, Israel had become like Sodom, and God was ready to wipe them out.

But Moses interjected on their behalf, and went up for them a 2nd Time to secure "another Covenant", which still included the 10 Commandments and many of God's eternal judgments, statutes and Laws that Noah and Abraham knew, that were given the first time, just like on the First Covenant. But on the 2nd Time Moses went up, God "ADDED" Laws, because of the great transgression, concerning sacrifices and burnt offerings required by the individual for sin.
 
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Colo Millz

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I am thinking of the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe:

After Aslan’s death and resurrection, he meets the Pevensie children again. Lewis writes:

“Aslan and Edmund walked together in the dewy grass, talking. But no one ever heard what Aslan was saying, and no one ever heard what Edmund said either.”

The conversation is deliberately left private.

But Edmund is completely changed - he is humble, brave, and loyal.

When the battle comes, he risks his life to save others (breaking the Witch’s wand).

Later, Aslan tells the others simply,

“Here is your brother ... and there is no need to talk to him about what is past.”

Now, what we are essentially doing is taking private bets between us as to what Aslan said to Edmund.

But my own particular bet is that Aslan does not say - "Ok Edmund, I sacrificed myself to save you from the Ice Queen, now you're completely free from all moral requirements whatsoever, do whatever you want and SIN BOLDLY!"
 
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Hentenza

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Your argument is as follows:

Jesus "fulfilled the law" (Greek plēroō) so there are no more requirements of any "Jewish law" on us.

Um - what about the ten commandments?

STRAWMAN!

I'm sure you're just going to reply to this with "nope" or something like that.
The 10 commandments, except for the 4th commandment, are summarized in Jesus two commandments. The Christian follows Jesus two commandments. My argument.
 
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