The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

Mercy Shown said:

Paul confirms this distinction in Galatians 3:19 — the law “added because of transgressions, until the Seed should come” — clearly referring to the ceremonial/sacrificial law that pointed to Christ’s sacrifice, not to the eternal moral law that defines sin (Romans 3:20; 7:7).

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I must differ with you on this statement. The context of Gal. 3 is referring to the whole law, including what defines sin.
3:17 - the covenant established, the basis of which is the 10 commandments
3:19 - because of transgressions - adultery, coveting, etc. were transgressions
3:22 - "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin" - meaning the 10 commandments define what sin is
3:24 - The "law" (all of it) was our schoolmaster - even now the 10 commandments is our tutor, as it teaches us what sin is
3:25 - We are not under law, even the 10 commandments
3:26 - we are children of God by faith, not by moral commandments
3:29 - we are heirs by promise, not by the old covenant of which the 10 Com. was its basis

The argument in Gal. 3 is that no law comes between us and God, not even the 10 com. "You are not under law, but under grace" means, IMO, that Christ took away all the law (including the 10 com.) that came between us and God, and Christ now stands in its place, in which His promise is to defend us before God.

fhansen said:

Nah, ad populum probably applies better to Protestantism today than it ever did to Catholcism. Either way, popularity doesn't make right-or wrong-whereas history and experience means something-and the Reformers threw both pretty much out the door while speculating with Scriptual guess-work some 15 centuries after the fact, and then often disagreed on it's the meaning anyway. And that beat continues on even louder today. Either way they got the basics wrong. The truth of the faith as recorded in history, not just as it regards Catholicism but all of the early church east and west, is against you.

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lol The arrogance. One day actually study the history of your church away from the propaganda that you are taught.

tdidymas said:

I must differ with you on this statement. The context of Gal. 3 is referring to the whole law, including what defines sin.
3:17 - the covenant established, the basis of which is the 10 commandments
3:19 - because of transgressions - adultery, coveting, etc. were transgressions
3:22 - "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin" - meaning the 10 commandments define what sin is
3:24 - The "law" (all of it) was our schoolmaster - even now the 10 commandments is our tutor, as it teaches us what sin is
3:25 - We are not under law, even the 10 commandments
3:26 - we are children of God by faith, not by moral commandments
3:29 - we are heirs by promise, not by the old covenant of which the 10 Com. was its basis

The argument in Gal. 3 is that no law comes between us and God, not even the 10 com. "You are not under law, but under grace" means, IMO, that Christ took away all the law (including the 10 com.) that came between us and God, and Christ now stands in its place, in which His promise is to defend us before God.

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Rom 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (break the law 1John3:4) that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The law that was added because of sin cannot the same law that describes sin.

If the Law is the schoolmaster to lead to Christ, what school teacher teaches us to throw out everything learned in school. If the law brings us to Christ does Christ say not to keep God's law and now we can vain His holy name, worship other gods, steal from our neighbor. I can't find this in our Bibles. Jesus taught and lived by example the opposite. Mat 5:19-30 Mat 15:3-14 Mark 7:7-13 John 15:10 Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15 etc etc. Most who use this verse haven't even tried to keep the entire law. God's law is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 why would our perfect Savior want our souls unconverted.

Mat 19:16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”

17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

18 He said to Him, “Which ones?”

Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’ 19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

Jesus quoted from the Ten Commandments and greatest commandments. Doesn't sound like our Teacher is telling us to discard His laws. He actually told that is not the way to eternal life Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15 1 John 2:4

Mercy Shown said:

You’re absolutely right that Jesus perfectly obeyed every command of His Father — He “humbled Himself and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross” (Philippians 2:8). He alone kept the Law in its entirety, honoring the Father in thought, word, and deed. But this is exactly why His obedience is our hope and victory, not merely a moral example.

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The point of my post, had you considered what was written, is that Jesus followed God's Law perfectly, but HE never engaged in obedience to the LAW of the Levitical Priesthood concerning burnt offering and sacrifices and Priesthood duties as commanded by God after the Golden Calf. The reason for this, is because "That Law" was only Temporary and was Prophesied as such. For Jesus to continue in this "ADDED LAW" would have been a sin and a rejection of God's Word concerning who HE was, and what His mission was.

The foundation of the internet sermons often posted, is that Jesus, Paul, Jeremiah or Moses didn't "Parse" the Law between God's Judgments, Statutes and Commandments, and the Temporary priesthood "works" "ADDED" to God's Laws because of the Golden calf, "Till the Seed/Priest "after the order of Melchizedek" should come.

God gave them this "ADDED" Law after the golden calf, "ADDED" to His Judgments, Statutes and Commandments Abraham obeyed, as a Mercy to them, instead of wiping them all out and building a nation from Moses, another statement from God that you didn't acknowledge, although I asked you about it.

This is why I ask you the questions so we can have an honest discussion about this important topic. , but you refused to answer.

Nevertheless, thank you for the platform and the opportunity to question popular philosophy that Jesus and Paul Warned about.

Hentenza said:

lol The arrogance. One day actually study the history of your church away from the propaganda that you are taught.

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The "history of the church" varies greatly according to the source of the "history". Certainly this is true concerning the "Crusades". There are many differing versions to choose from. It would seem, according to Paul, that the Holy Scriptures would provide the most accurate and trustworthy "History" and "Prophesy" concerning this world's many religions "who profess to know God". I would argue that ANY History, outside the teaching of the bible, would be "propaganda".

Studyman said:

The "history of the church" varies greatly according to the source of the "history". Certainly this is true concerning the "Crusades". There are many differing versions to choose from. It would seem, according to Paul, that the Holy Scriptures would provide the most accurate and trustworthy "History" and "Prophesy" concerning this world's many religions "who profess to know God". I would argue that ANY History, outside the teaching of the bible, would be "propaganda".

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The Bible offers the history of the beginning of the universal church not of any particular denomination. The early church depicted in scripture were a collection of independent churches that shared the early books and apostolic knowledge. The rest of the church history comes from the actual study of history outside of scripture. The plethora of extant manuscripts and artifacts follow the churches history throughout the centuries. Frequent new discoveries continue to shape this history.

SabbathBlessings said:

Did you read my post, the translation you used added it to God’s holy word, why would I respond to something that is not there nor are we discussing Mat 23. Nor were the Pharasees keep God;s laws, they were keeping their own man-made ones in lieu of God's commandments taht Jesus condemed. Mat 15:1-15 Rom 2:21-23

Jesus quoted directly the commandments He was referring to in the same passage, its the context, no need to add other things Jesus did not say in this passage to define which commandants He was referring to . Jesus quoted what He meant in the context of the same passage Mat5:19-30.

I think it’s time for me to move on brother. I wish you well.

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Yea, it's time for you to move on. I'm not sure you even read what I said. The "teachers of the Law" is there in the Greek. You just don't read Greek. I can only just read enough to know it's there.

Jesus referred to the 10 Commandments in Matt 5 because it was part of the entire Law, which is what the Pharisees and teachers of the Law taught. Matthew confirms what the Pharisses and teachers of the Law taught later on in his Gospel.

You shouldn't be trying to teach others your beliefs if they can't hold up in Scripture. And if they can't hold up in Scripture, you should think about changing your belief about the legal necessity of keeping Sabbath Law. It would be great if we could get on the same page.

RandyPNW said:

Yea, it's time for you to move on. I'm not sure you even read what I said. The "teachers of the Law" is there in the Greek. You just don't read Greek. I can only just read enough to know it's there.

Jesus referred to the 10 Commandments in Matt 5 because it was part of the entire Law, which is what the Pharisees and teachers of the Law taught. Matthew confirms what the Pharisses and teachers of the Law taught later on in his Gospel.

You shouldn't be trying to teach others your beliefs if they can't hold up in Scripture. And if they can't hold up in Scripture, you should think about changing your belief about the legal necessity of keeping Sabbath Law. It would be great if we could get on the same page.

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Sorry if I don't take your word for it over the translation in Greek as shown written word for word The History of the “Two Laws” Theory in Romans 3:20

The Pharisees were teachers of their own laws, not God's they kept their laws not God's Mat 15:1-14 Rom 2:21-23 which Jesus condemned harshly, following their path is not the way back to reconciliation. Mat 5:18-20 Rev 22:14-15

There is no Scripture that says the Ten Commandments are the same laws as the sacrificial laws that Moses wrote placed besides the ark of the Covenant. This goes against the very teaching of God, as shown too many times to count. You quote you and think it trumps what God said in His own written and spoken Testimony the Ten Commandments Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 that no more were added Deut 5:22 sorry if I choose to believe the Testimony of God Exo 31:18 over man. There was no Moses at creation according to God in His written and spoken Testimony, the Ten Commandments Exo 20:11. But you are free to believe what you wish

2 Chr 33:8 and I will not again remove the foot of Israel from the land which I have appointed for your fathers—only if they are careful to do all that I (God) have commanded them, according to the whole law and (in addition to) the statutes and the ordinances by the hand of Moses.”

God is not Moses. Moses is not God. Moses was a servant of God as are we to be.

James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

Which Law?

11 For He (God) who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

The Ten Commandments is the whole law of God, the only law that sits under His mercy seat. His own Testimony, that God of the Universe wrote, not man. Where mercy and justice will come together soon. Rev 11:18-19 I personally would not want to remove a jot or tittle on what God covers under His mercy seat, but we are given free will, despite that never working out for anyone in Scripture. Eze 22:26 Eze 20:13 Neh 13:17 Exo 31:14 we were told not to follow the same path of disobedience Heb4:11

The law that describes what sin is can't be the same law that was added as a prescription for sin. I pray one day you will see this.