Things none of ya'll have ever read about Revelation.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Revelation 6-19 contain two parallel prophesies of the same events with different details. I'll be listing them appropriately.​

Revelation chapter 6:1-8's first four seals and four horseman are the four empires spoken about in the second paragraph of this article.​

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I can already guess where this is going, I have seen it 1000s of time, I will play along but lets just say this looks like the old RCC is the Boggy Man thread.

The Seals are NOTHING, and also nothing that happens after Rev. 2 and 3 (The Church Age) can be a part of anything other than the 70th week. What do I mean by the Seals are NOTHING? Well, they were never meant to be understood as Judgments, but instead to show unto the world/church that God has all of the Judgments SEALED UP until His Wrath falls, but that only starts in Rev. 8, that is why the 7th Seal is in Rev 8 and not in Rev. 6. Look at it like this.

It must flow, Rev. 2 and 3 is the Church Age (THE THINGS WHICH ARE) and everything after Rev. 4:1 is the 70th week HEREAFTER (The Thins which will be Hereafter) And as we can see the Pre Trib. Raptured Church is in heaven in Rev. 4, 5 and 7, BEFORE the Seals are ever opened. But how is it that the Seals are not Wrath, how do we explain Seals 1-5 and Seal #6 then? The Seals are Jesus FORETELLING the Church in Heaven what is about to befall the earth via his Wrath, and the Anti-Christ is a part of God's Wrath as Isaiah 10:4-6 says. Thus Jesus/Angels tells the Church to COME AND SEE, COME AND SEE (it is a vision of the future). In Seals 1-5 We are shown the 42 months of the Anti-Christs life, he will 1.) conquer 2.) Bring Wars 3.) Which will bring Famine 4.) And his 42 months of rule will bring Sickness, Death and the Grave/Hades. Finally he will kill the Gentile Converts, he can not get at the Jewish Converts, God protects them in the Petra/Bozrah region for 1260 days. Then the church in heaven are FORETOLD about God's soon to fall Wrath, which will do what? Turn the Sun & Moon Dark and the Moon will look blood red. Well, isn't that what Trump #4 does? The Seals SEAL UP God's Wrath, just lie a Letter from a King Sealed with Three Wax Signet Seals could not be read by anyone unless they first broke those seals, ALL THREE........Thus ALL SEVEN Seals must be broken before God's Wrath can fall. So, why is the 7th Seal over in Rev.8 ? Because Rev. 7 is a CODE for All Israel who repents, its not 144,000, jut like Christendom is not only 10 Female "Virgin" Brides. God uses numbers, 10 = Completion, 12 = Fulness so 10 x 10 x 12 x 12 x 12 if God SHOUTING this s ALL Israel who repents, and thus they are not all Male Virgins either, that just means they have repented, they are Male because Israel was called first !! God also saved Himself 7000 men remember? 7 = Divine Completion, thus we have 7 x 10 x 10 x 10 or Israel whom God had saved, whom He then displaced the world over until the end times, where He regathered them in 1948, but without Breath in them (not saved).

Reread Rev. 7 what does it say? HOLD BACK the four winds (Wrath/Judgment) and HURT NOT the Earth, Sea nor Trees until the 144,000 are SEALED (Saved). Well, what hurts the Earth, Sea and Trees? The Rev. 8 Wrath of God which sees an Asteroid Impact in Trumps 1-4 its one event in four phases. You looking back in history just tells me you do not understand the book of Revelation brother.

Daniel Martinovich said:

The reason this is evident is that this prophecy in Rev. chapters 6-11 is repeated in Rev. chapters 13-18. with the same seven judgments as Rev. chapters 6-11. Only instead of four horsemen.

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No it is not.

Rev. 2&3 is the Church Age

Everything after Rev. 4:1 (the Pre Trib. Rapture) is the HEREAFTER or after the Church Age, the 70th week.

Rev. 4 and 5 is the Church in Heaven praising God and Jesus

Rev. 6 is Jesu opening the Seals which looses the Wrath of God in Rev. 8

Rev. 7 is the Jews who repented being Sealed by the Holy Spirit and God says HOLD UP EVERYTHING until I have them saved and protected.

Rev. 8 starts God's Wrath. The 30 minutes of Silence is the Heavens/Angels saying we take no joy in this judgment, just like it repented God when He had to flood the whole earth. Trumps 1-4 are one Asteroid.

Rev. 9 is still in perfect Chronological Order, only after this chapter did God on purpose jumble it up. The First Two Woes come in Rev. 9 telling us Rev. 11 MUST BE a Parenthetical Citation Chapter.

Rev. 16 is the final Wrath Chapter(really 15&16 go together just as Rev. 8 had the Angels readying the Trumps to Sound THEN Sounding them later, in Rev. 15 we see the Angels readying the Vials to be poured out THEN pouring them out in Rev. 16 only) The 3rd Woe is all 7 Vials, which emit from the 7th Trump.

The Parenthetical Chapters

Everything else are Parenthetical Citation Chapters, meaning they all happen during the 42 months of Wrath we see in Revelation chapters 8, 9 and 16. Now, if we are observant we can see how almost everyone of these chapters can be seen in a 1260 day bracket, and Rev. 8, 9 and 16 last 1260 days (God's Wrath equals a Time, Times and half time or 1260 days or 42 months_

Rev. 10 is now no longer a mystery, the 7 THUNDERS are simply the 7 Trumps, God Wrath all lies in only 7 Trumps, the 7 Vials emit from the 7th Trump and are the 3rd Woe. Why was the little book sweet in the mouth but bitter in the stomach? Because just like the 30 minutes of silence, only Judgment could bring John into the eternal Godhead, that was sweet but then John saw the billions of humans who ad to be judged and killed, and that was bitter unto him !! When the 7th Thunder Sounds (7th Trump) time will be no more [as we have known it under Satan, Babylon falls, Jesus will no rule].

Rev. 11 is a tad different it starts 1335 days before the 2nd Coming, the 2 Witnesses are the 1335 Blessing. They die BEFORE THE BEAST right? At the 2nd Woe vs. him dying at the 7th Vial, so their timelines can not be the same can it? But both have 1260 day Offices as appointed or Ordained by God. So, since the die first, they have to show up first, thus each number in Dan. 12 is a set number of days until the 2nd Coming ENDS ALL OF THESE WONDERS (Dan. 11:36-45). Thus the 2 Witnesses show up to turn Israel back unto God both Malachi 4:5 and Zechariah 13:8-9 and Zech. 14:1 says so, then the False Prophet (a Jewish High Priest) will FORBID Jesus Worship by those 1/3 (5 million Jews) who repented in "HIS" Temple, and e will then place an IMAGE of the E.U. President up in the temple (the AoD). That AoD sign gives those Jews 30 days to Flee Judea. Then the Anti-Christ comes on the scene as "The Beast" 30 days later, and 75 days after the 2 Witnesses show up. So, Rev. 11 lasts for 1335 days in full, but it only tells about what the 7th Trump will bring, VICTORY, we only get the details in Rev. 16.

Rev. 12 is Israel fleeing for.............1260 days.

Rev. 13 is the Beast ruling for...........1260 days

Rev. 14 is The Harvest Chapter, we see the VERY END where Jesus shows up and the 144,000 (5 million Jews) are awaiting, but they are really in the Petra area, its just symbolic of "The Harvest" of Israel. Likewise in Rev. 14:17-20 we see the Harvest of the Wicked Grapes (Tares) who grow together with the Wheat (Israel) until the end, then the are Harvested into the Gave to be judged 1000 years later. So, who does Jesus Harvest in Rev. 14:14 ? Well, he harvest us the Church from upon a cloud, it is the Pre Trib. Rapture shown to John in the old Cinematic Flashback style. Thus this chapter covers 7 full years like Rev. 19.

Rev. 17 is the Beast and his kings killing of the Harlot (False Religion) this lasts for only 42 months of course.

Rev. 18 is the Whole World (Babylon) being Judged by God and that Wrath lasts for 1260 days.

Rev. 19 shows the Church in Heaven before we get our White Robes or Marries the Lamb. Then we are seen returning with Jesus to the Marriage Supper (Armageddon) thus this chapter covers 7 years also.

Daniel Martinovich said:

Revelation 12 & 17 continues the completion of the revelation of the mystery of Daniel 2 & 7. ​

In Rev. 12 we see and expansion of the prophecy in Daniel. A Roman Empire illustrated by a dragon with 7 heads and the ten horns of Daniel 7. The persecuted woman that gave birth to the messiah is the New Jerusalem of Isaiah 54 who are the believers in Ancient Israel, now become the believers in the NT. Versus 6 & 14 show the 1260 year time period of the universal oppression of the saints related to this empire once more. Rev. chap. 17 gives us the clarity we need to see the times and seasons of this revelation. In verse 9, the great city that sits on seven mountains is obviously Rome. In verse 10 seven heads are Rome's first seven emperors, John is receiving this vision during the reign of the 6th, The Bible's prophecy is not counting claimants to the throne during times of civil war the way historians do. Regardless of what you think of that, the 8th emperor is Titus as illustrated by verse 11. He illustrates the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition. This is who Paul is referring to in 2nd Thessalonians 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sits in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Also Daniel 9:26 .....and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and to the end of the war desolations are determined. So you can see how Daniel and Paul emphasize the individual but Revelation in chap. 17:11, the emphasis is on the empire. There is a reason for this. Titus was the son of the emperor Vespasian when he destroyed Jerusalem. He was not emperor at the time but the prince of Daniel 9:26. He sat in the temple courtyard when he conquered Jerusalem. Revelations prophecy however emphasizing the Roman Empire's destruction of Jerusalem and Titus who was of the same dynasty as the first seven emperors becoming the eight emperor is giving us precise dates through which we can determine the end of the this age of oppression and the beginning of the age of promise. How?​

In the next verse, 12. John is shown that the ten kings of the Roman Empire prophesied about in Daniel 2, 7, & Rev. 12, 13, 17 are future to him receiving this vision during the reign of the sixth emperor. Based on that alone we still don't know which ten. But since we have hindsight and know the empire ended in 1453 AD. We can take 1260 years off that date which that brings us to 193 AD which is the first year of the reign of Septimious Severus. He fulfilled Daniel 7's prophecy abut him precisely. Three emperors fell before him in one year. He defeated two other claimants to the throne besides this. Why some historians would call those claimants emperors is beyond me. They never reigned as emperors like the three who fell in a year. He started what was essentially a war against the saints. The death penalty for becoming a Christian. This tells you who the ten emperors were since Severus is the eleventh in Daniel 7. Those ten are the ten who immediately followed the Titus's reign as emperor. So essentially what you have is that from the beginning of the times of the gentiles when Nebuchadnezzar conquered Judea until the destruction of Jerusalem in 666 years by Titus the prince- Then Titus who illustrates the beast itself's emperorship, followed by the ten emperor's prophesied about in multiple places. Then from the beginning of Daniel 7's prophecy of the eleventh emperor is 1260 years until the Roman Empire and the times of the gentiles ends. Significant to demonstrate the supernatural nature of the Bible. But much more significant as to what prophecies we should put our faith in as to what the future holds.​

Revelation 17-18 and the Babylonian Mystery Religion. Chap 18:24 And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth. What this was specifically is the practice of kings and emperors imposing idolatry on the peoples. Today we would call it an intolerant official state religion like Islam. This was started by Nimrod in Babylon shortly after the the flood and was the reason Jehovah came down to earth and confused the languages and spread the human race all over the world. God did not want the entirety of his creation immediately separated from himself by state imposed idolatry. The reason kings and emperors practiced this because it makes people easier to deceive and manipulate as it separates the peoples from the voice of the Lord. In Daniel's first prophecy about these four empires and what would follow he notes that the ten toes, illustrating these ten emperors have the strength of iron but there is clay mixed with that iron illustrating a weakness. The weakness is the Babylonian system of government imposed idolatry to control the masses. Since these emperors did not realize the extent of the danger Christianity posed to their rule, they did not conduct large scale imperial persecutions against them. That gave the believers some breathing room to multiply exceedingly which spelled the doom of the state imposed idolatry. Idolatry is the first thing to fall when the gospel is preached, and to peoples under the influence of the kingdom of God. This is what verse 17:14 is a prophesying: These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. It is not a prophecy of the end of the empire but the beginning of the end state imposed idolatry. Septimius Severus's, the 11th emperor mention in Daniel 7, although to late to stop the momentum of the kingdom of God against the Babylonian mystery religion; turned to large scale imperial persecutions that set the stage for the 1260 years of military campaigns against the saints. As most westerners understand. the Babylonian system, due to its inability to control the masses was eventually replaced by an imperial\state church. That would serve the purpose of the emperors control over their domains for a millennium. If things got out of hand. Such as a region within their empire where the population was gaining access to the scripture and the people becoming aware of the freedoms promised in Christ. Military campaigns to wipe out those regions became the norm as this was a direct threat to the rule of emperors and kings. As noted earlier. The dynamic that changed all this was the invention of the printing press when the Roman Empire ended and the general public gaining access to the Bible. A public armed with the the truth of God's Word began to be dominate in all things including militarily over the ancient order of things and always tends towards freedom. The thinking that developed in Northern Europe due to the public reading Bibles migrated to North America. This was the beginning of the free world prophesied in God's Word that will eventually overtake the entire globe.​

One hitch for me is the verses in chapter 17:16-17. They are a mystery to me as these ten emperors were not hostile to the Roman state religion or it's government supported priesthood. My assumption regarding these two verses, although it takes them wildly out the context of Chapter 17; is that they are speaking not of the harlot of Babylon but of Jerusalem's whoredoms. These ten emperors where extremely hostile towards the remainder of any Israeli's in Judea and did in fact seek to totally destroy them. After the Kokhba Revolt in 135 AD the emperor Hadrian sought to erase Jewish identity and as part of that campaign renamed the region Syria Palaestina, or Palaestina for short. (After the Philistines) That is where we get the name Palestine from.​

Revelation 19. The end of the age of universal oppression of the saints measured by the four empires and the beginning of the promised age. Like Daniel 2, 7 and many dozens of chapters of prophecy. Revelation prophesied a promised age of billions coming to Christ and the transformation of the world from despotism to a growing free world once the Roman Empire ended. That is what this particular instance, among many, of the coming of the Lord illustrates. As stated earlier. The main vehicle that would bring the judgment upon the despotic ancient world and the promise of a free one was the Bible for the first time in history, making its way into the hands of the general public. That is what is mostly being illustrated in verse 14 in Christ bringing the armies of heaven with him. They represent the old and new testament saint's labors and sufferings, mostly in bringing the world his written word. In other words all the labors of the saints over millennia will now begin to bring the fruit prophesied in a promised age. This was followed by another first outside ancient Israel. Many of the geographical area's that had gained access to Bibles surviving the war aimed at taking the scriptures from them but then, the Bible reading peoples becoming dominate in every area of life, including militarily. This phenomena has been growing in the earth ever since then and nothing the world has thrown at it has been able to stop it. That is what is illustrated in verses 15-16. The defeat in war of the entire order of the despotic ancient world. Mostly but not only, by the peoples influenced by the Bible. It is not beyond God to use the wicked to punish the wicked. As represented in the remaining verses of the destruction of the Roman Empire and end of the age of the universal oppression of the saints. The lake of fire illustrates total defeat in war.​

Now I understand how hard it is to see this in chapter nineteen because the pictures presented about it are so highly illustrative. Intimate familiarity with the scripture and a yielding to its own interpretations of its own prophecies rather than familiarity with the many narratives and traditions the Bible is read through are a necessary component of understanding them. I'm going to leave chapter 20 out of this as it, along with chapter 21-22, belong to this current age. I'll write an article on it down the road .​

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Those posts redefine the phrase “wall of text”.

How do you expect other posters to interact with something that is thousands of words long ?