How do we set aside the grace of God?

fli said:

God does not give everyone the ability to resist sin. For most of us it's a struggle. Paul caught Peter in hypocrisy. Annanias and wife were caught lying to God. The young man and drunks in Corinth. All the people Paul was warning in the letters. Even Paul said that he struggled with sin.

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You're sort of doubting or downplaying the work of the Holy Spirit there, no? So a believer is no different from an unbeliever in terms of his abilty to overcome sin, put to death the deeds of the flesh, produce good fruit by virtue of his connection to the Vine? Jesus just came so we could be comfortable remaining in our sin??

fli said:

Have you ever read Job. God was perfecting him.

Hebrews 12:3 For consider Him who endured such hostility from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and discouraged in your souls. 4 You have not yet resisted to bloodshed, striving against sin. 5 And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons: "My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, Nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by Him. 6 For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives." 7 If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? 8 But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. 9 Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live? 10 For they indeed for a few days chastened us as seemed best to them, but He for our profit, that we may be partakers of His holiness. 11 Now no chastening seems to be joyful for the present, but painful; nevertheless, afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. NKJV

Does the above sound like a picnic?

1 Peter 4:1 Therefore, since Christ suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves also with the same mind, for he who has suffered in the flesh has ceased from sin, NKJV

Suffering in the flesh to get rid of sin. Instead of downplaying the role of the Holy Spirit, maybe I'm listening to Him.

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Who even hinted that it would be a picnic? You said God doesn’t give everyone the ability to resist sin. I say that no one will ever overcome except for His help, His grace. Here’s a teaching I’ve come to appreciate, in fact.:

409 This dramatic situation of "the whole world [which] is in the power of the evil one"302 makes man's life a battle:
The whole of man's history has been the story of dour combat with the powers of evil, stretching, so our Lord tells us, from the very dawn of history until the last day. Finding himself in the midst of the battlefield man has to struggle to do what is right, and it is at great cost to himself, and aided by God's grace, that he succeeds in achieving his own inner integrity.303

You're right, God is perfecting us. But that "journey to perfection", as it's been called, is one that we must be on-rather than saying, "Jesus did it all for me so I don't have to struggle at all". His burden is comparatively light, not non-existent. He opens the door to the life of grace, the life of God in us. We must cooperate with that highest of callings, picking up our crosses and following daily.

fli said:

Matthew 11:11 "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. 12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. 13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John. 14 And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who is to come. 15 He who has ears to hear, let him hear! NKJV


According to Jesus, John the Baptist was the greatest of those of those born of women. I take that to mean he was the least sinner of those born until that time. But even he needed Jesus.

Matthew 19:20 The young man said to Him, "All these things I have kept from my youth. What do I still lack?" 21 Jesus said to him, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me." NKJV


Jesus told a young man if he wanted to be as perfect as he could be, he had to sell all and follow Himself. In other words the man was to perfect himself by being as John the Baptist was. John didn't own anything but the clothes on his back, and he went around pointing to Jesus as the Messiah. That tells me that if anyone claims to be as sinless as possible, for a flesh and blood person can be, they have to be as John the Baptist was. Meaning they have to own nothing, but their clothes, and spend their day pointing to Jesus as the Messiah.

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We can always do and be better. But you seem to be saying that we can't be good at all- so why bother trying? And that would be like the wicked and lazy servant in Matt 25:26-27 who didn't even take what he'd been given and produce anything good from it.

Part of the difference here is that some of us believe that it’s all a done deal, that a believer becomes permanently saved all at once, that his will plays no part in that work of God’s. But God beckons and calls us; He informs and prompts and stirs and moves us to come to Him, and continues to do so in order that we will remain with Him. That’s all part of His bringing us into the Life he has for us-the life He’s always wanted man to have. But He never forces Himself upon us-He's not a puppetmaster-that's not what He wants for and from us. And to the extent that we remain near to Him, we will become more and more like Him. And that’s really the whole point. If we aren’t becoming more and more like Him, then we aren’t truly near to Him. And nearness to God is salvation.

fli said:

I apologize pastorwaris for saying your doctrine was false. Thank you again.

After analyzing the scriptures, I understand what you mean, I think. God has given us what we need to resist. That information is not automatically available to our knowledge. I say that because the Apostles Peter and Barnabas was not aware, or did not use, the information when needed. Paul wrote most of it, but he admits he still struggled with sin.

James 1:14 But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed. 15 Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death. NKJV

First, James stated, most if not all, temptations come from within which seems to be what happened to David. He kept obsessing over her, in his mind, even when she disappeared. His way out-2Samuel 12:8 in addition to his own wives David had been given Saul's wives, and David could have asked God for more, which would have satisfied his desires.

1 Corinthians 10:13 No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it. NKJV

Next, God's not allowing us to be tempted beyond our ability is dependent on our taking the way of escape. If we have diligently sought our sanctification and His righteousness we should recognize and use the escape provided. David, and all of us who have sinned repeatedly, have failed because we didn't use the escape plan given to us by God. God's plan of salvation must be used in it's entirety and it takes constant vigilance on our part. Jesus did it all for us, we must use what He has provided.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. NKJV

The final say- as long as we are housed in our flesh, we will never be able to use the tools provided to be without sin. And with the example of David, we should never be confident that sin cannot overcome our resolve to not sin.

Two other items in the gift list. We have the mind of Jesus and the love of Jesus both in the spirit man. While we have His mind and love, they are fighting our carnal mind and carnal love that we have always relied on. While we are in the flesh we cannot ever be without sin.

1 John 2:3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. NKJV

If we keep His 2 commandments and His word, we will die in Him and be in heaven. With the flesh dead, along with the carnal mind and carnal love, His mind and love that was in our spirit man is perfected. Our spirit man will now be us thinking like Jesus and our spirit man can love like Jesus loved.

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Dear beloved brother in Christ,

Thank you so much for your humble spirit and let me say from the start, there’s no need to apologize. This is how brothers sharpen one another in love (Proverbs 27:17), and your willingness to reexamine the Scriptures shows a heart that truly seeks truth above all else. That blesses me deeply.

You’ve brought out such rich and vital truths from God’s Word especially the reality that while we are saved by grace, we are still walking this journey in the flesh, daily relying on the Spirit's power to overcome.

You’re absolutely right: temptation doesn’t come from the outside alone. As James said, it begins in the hidden chambers of the heart our desires, our thoughts and unless checked, it leads to sin. David’s tragic fall is a sobering example of this. The “way of escape” was there, as you pointed out from 2 Samuel 12:8, but like us many times, he didn’t take it. That reminder alone should keep us watchful and humble.

And I really appreciate your highlighting of 1 Corinthians 10:13. It’s not just a promise it’s a call to awareness. The escape is there, but recognizing it requires spiritual discernment, which is developed as we walk in sanctification and yield ourselves daily to Christ. The problem isn’t the lack of provision it’s often our lack of attentiveness.

You’ve also drawn attention to one of the greatest tensions in the Christian life what Paul expresses in Romans 7. The war between the flesh and the Spirit is real, daily, and sometimes discouraging. But praise be to God, Paul didn’t stop at Romans 7. He continued into chapter 8: “There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus...” That’s where our hope lies not in perfection in the flesh, but in the power of the Spirit who helps us live free from its control.

And yes, while we have the mind of Christ and the love of Christ, it’s a spiritual reality that must grow in us as we crucify the flesh daily. I’m reminded of Galatians 2:20: “It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me…” The goal is not sinless perfection in the flesh, but spiritual maturity and abiding obedience, driven by love and grace.

I truly value your reflections, and I thank you for taking the time to dig so deeply into the Word. These conversations are how the Body of Christ grows when we reason together in love and truth, all under the Lordship of Christ.

May God bless you and strengthen you as you continue to seek Him and walk in His ways. Keep sharing, Dear Brother, your insights are a blessing to many.

In Christ’s grace and truth,
Pastor Waris

fhansen said:

Jesus just came so we could be comfortable remaining in our sin??

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Most people most places even in church remain comfortable sinning and never even thinking of tunring to God, never repenting.

Aaron112 said:

Most people most places even in church remain comfortable sinning and never even thinking of tunring to God, never repenting.

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Sounds true enough to me.

Good acts or legal obedience never made a single person sinless, ever

The notions that we overcome sin, by whatever methodology and therefore are sinless does not exist.

We are not one wit different than Paul, here:

Romans 7:
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Sin indwelling us does have a life of its own so to speak, or better said, a death of its own, regardless of what good we do.

And no wonder, because sin is in fact "of the devil." Everyone who tries to justify the entirety of themselves under any guise is merely trying to justify evil and the tempter or his own within them as well, or ignore it, or claim in blinded hypocrisy that it doesn't exist within them, when we all should honestly know that we are constantly under attack, knowingly or unknowingly. And that evil thoughts defile us all, just as Jesus showed us in Mark 7:21-23. <---This doesn't stop via the exercise of will power, or claimed legal obedience or good acts.

Everything mankind does transpires in the cesspool of this present darkness

And there are so few that are even able to "tell the TRUTH" about it. No, we'd rather act our way past the graveyard. To be "inspired by faith" to LIE.

We can be lights, but those lights are in fact shining in the dark. There is no such thing as one or the other

Everyone who reads that there is good fruit and bad, always thinks they are only the good and never the bad, and nothing can be further from the truth. Both sides apply

fli said:

Galatians 2:21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." NKJV

What does Paul mean by “set aside the grace of God?” It definitely has something to do with the law. Paul stated “If righteousness came through the law Christ died in vain.”

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Grace is a gift and gifts can't be earned, so trying to earn our righteousness as the result of our works would set aside the grace of God. God's law was never given as a way of earning our righteousness even, so that has always been a fundamental misunderstanding of the reason why we should obey it.

fli said:

1 Corinthians 6:12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any. 13 Foods for the stomach and the stomach for foods, but God will destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for sexual immorality but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body. 14 And God both raised up the Lord and will also raise us up by His power. NKJV


As Paul states in the above everything is legal for those who are in Christ. Romans 7 God considers everyone in Jesus to have died with Him. Being dead means that we are not under the law as dead people cannot sin. Therefore, God will not impute sin to those in Jesus. We have liberty to sin.

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In 1 Corinthians, Paul is enforcing the Acts 15 decree and is quoting things that were being reported to him as being said by the Corinthians in order to correct them, not in order to endorse them. In 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, Paul was not saying that those things are all lawful, but that they will prevent someone from inheriting the Kingdom of God. Christ set a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law and those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked (1 John 2:6).

We need to die to the law of sin in order to be free to obey the Law of God, not the other way around. In Titus 2:14, it does not say that Jesus gave himself to free us from God's law but in order to free us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the freedom that we have in Christ is not the freedom to sin but the freedom from sin.

fli said:

Galatians 5:13 For you, brethren, have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through love serve one another. 14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this: "You shall , love your neighbor as yourself." NKJV


Paul warns us about using our liberty as an opportunity to please our flesh. Then he cites that all the law is fulfilled by the OT law of “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Does this mean that we have to “Love our neighbor as our self” to be saved by Jesus? No!

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Jesus gracious teaching us to love our neighbor as ourselves is intrinsically the way that he is giving us his gift of saving us from not loving our neighbors as ourselves.

fli said:

Romans 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. NKJV

Our righteousness is apart from the law. That means that our righteousness has nothing to do with our doing any OT law.

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Character traits are not earned as the result of our works but rather they are embodied through our works, so God's law was never given instructions for how to earn our righteousness but as instructions for how to embody God's righteousness. The only way to attain a character trait is through faith apart from being required to have first done enough works in order to earn it as the result, but what it means to have a character trait is to be a doer of works that embody that trait, so it would be contradictory for someone to become righteous apart from becoming a doer of righteous works. This is why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works does not abolish our need to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law, but rather our faith upholds it (Romans 3:28-31).

fli said:

Romans 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works: NKJV


God imputes righteousness apart from doing any works. The above scripture is a 2-edged sword. For those who do not work their faith is accounted for righteousness. It also means that if one is doing a work to be righteous, they do not believe in Jesus. If anyone believes in Jesus, then that belief in Jesus is their righteousness. How could they believe Jesus makes them righteous, if they are working to be righteous?

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Everyone who has faith will be declared righteous and everyone who has faith is a doer of God's law, which is how Paul can deny in Romans 4:1-5 that we can earn our righteousness as the result of our works while also affirming in Roman 2:13 that only the doers of the law will be declared righteous. In 1 John 3:4-10, everyone who is a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law is righteous even as they are righteous and those who are not doers of righteous works in obedience to God's law are not children of God. Jesus embodied the righteousness of God through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law, so that is what we also have the gift of getting to obey the we receive the gift of the righteousness of God.

fli said:

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NKJV


Again, the above scripture is a two-edged sword. If anyone believes in Jesus, He is the end of the law for righteousness. That means if you believe in Jesus you do not get any righteousness by doing works of the law.

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In Romans 3:21-22, the only way to become righteous that is testified about in the Law and the Prophets is through faith in Christ for all who believe, so the reason for why we should obey God's law never in order to become righteous, and God's law can't be ended for a purpose that it never had.

fli said:

Galatians 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love. NKJV

Some Galatians had been convinced they had to trust in circumcision. Circumcision has noting to do with righteousness.(It was a requirement for those in the first covenant) If they got circumcised, believing they needed to for salvation, they would set aside the grace of God. If anyone sets grace aside the only way left to be righteous is by doing the law. We know no one will be made righteous by the law because no one except Jesus could do the law without committing sin.

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It is important to recognize that Paul can speak against doing something for an incorrect reason without speaking against doing it for a correct reason. If Paul had been speaking against circumcision for any reason, then according to Galatians 5:2, Paul caused Christ to be of no value to Timothy when he had him circumcised and Christ is of no value to roughly 80% of the men in the US. The reason for why God commanded circumcision was never in order to become saved. Even if someone managed to have perfect obedience to God's law, then they still wouldn't earn their righteousness as the result, so the reason why we can't earn our righteousness by obeying God's law is not that we fall short of perfect obedience but because it was never given as a way of earning our righteousness in the first place.

fli said:

Then why did Paul tell us to “love our neighbor as our self” to be righteous?

Paul has just gone through several chapters explaining how faith in Jesus is so much better than being under the law, he is not going to now tell the Galatians to do the law, the law is one entire unit not separate parts. He is telling them not to use the liberty in Jesus to satisfy their lusts. We do not lose salvation if we die under discipline, which if we use our liberty to satisfy our lusts we will die under discipline.

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It is contradictory to think that we should have faith in God's Word made flesh instead of in God's Word.

fli said:

Galatians 2:20(a) I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; (b) and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." NKJV


The answer to why Paul told us, to love our neighbor as ourselves, is in the above scriptures. Verse 20 b the life that Paul lived in the flesh he lived by faith in Jesus. That is the way all the sons of God live.

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Christ lived in obedience to God's law, so that is also the way that we live when he is living in us.

fli said:

Romans 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors — not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. NKJV

By accepting discipline, we prove that we are sons of God. Verse 12 we should not live to satisfy the flesh. If we live to the flesh we will die physically. Any of the elect (remember David and Bathsheba) could fall into temptation and quit walking in the Spirit. If this happens Jesus will start discipline, ending in our physical death , if we do not repent. This is what Paul meant by the life he now lives he lives by faith in Jesus. Paul had faith that if he continued to obey Jesus' commands that he would accomplish everything God had planned for him to do. Romans 13:8 We are under the law of love. If we fulfill the law of love we will continue to live physically. If we stop fulfilling the law of love we will die and go to heaven under discipline. 1Corinthians 11:32 God disciplines us so we will not be judged by the world.

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In Romans 8:4-14, Paul contrasted those who are born of the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to His law. Everything in God's law is either in regard to how to love God or our neighbor, which is why Jesus said in Matthew 22:36-40 that those are the greatest two commandments and that all of the other commandments hang on the, so it is the law of love and the position that we should obey the greatest two commandments is also the position that we should obey the commandments that hang on them.

fli said:

Romans 8: 10 by God's word if the Spirit of Jesus is in us we are dead physically. We cannot sin because dead men are not under the law.



Are you are saying that we have to do works of the law to be righteous?

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The way that someone attains a character trait is a different issue than what it means to have a character trait. The one and only way to attain a character trait is through faith but what it means to have a character trait is to be a doer of the works that embody that trait. For example, the only way for someone to become courageous is by faith apart from being required to have first done enough courageous works in order to earn it as the result, but it would be contradictory for someone to become courageous apart from becoming a doer of courageous works and the same is true for righteousness and every other character trait. This is again why the faith by which we are declared righteous apart from works also upholds our need to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law (Romans 3:28-31).

fli said:

Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation. 2 For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge. 3 For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes. NASU

Anyone, who says that Christians have obey the law to be righteous, does not believe in Jesus. In verse 3 those who are ignorant of God's righteousness seek to establish their own righteousness, by doing the law. If anyone does not believe that Jesus makes them righteous, they think that they must do the law. God's righteousness is through faith not works. It seems to me that you might believe that James, the brother of Jesus, said one must have works to have a saving faith.

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In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him to walk in His way that He and Israel might know Him, and in Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from because he never knew them, so the goal of the law is to graciously teach us how to know God and Jesus, which is His gift of eternal life (John 17:3).

In Romans 9:30-10:4, they had a zeal for God, but it was not based on knowing Him, so they failed to attain righteousness because they misunderstood the goal of the law by pursuing it as though righteousness were earned as the result of their works in order to establish their own instead of pursuing it as through righteousness were by faith in Christ, for knowing Christ is the goal of the law for righteousness for everyone who has faith. We do not earn our righteousness as the result of our obedience to God's law, but rather the way that Jesus makes us righteous is by graciously teaching us to be a doer of righteous works in obedience to God's law through faith.

fli said:

Since the apostle James, brother of Jesus, used Abraham to prove a point about salvation in the NT, I will use an OT saint, David, to prove another point about salvation. Since both Abraham and David are listed in Hebrews 11 as having saving faith, I know they both are sons of God. Because of that I know in Romans chapter 8, where Paul describes what true believers do to be in the Spirit, they have reached being sons in verse 14.

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While it is true that Abraham believed God, so he was declared righteous, it is also true that Abraham believes God, so he was a doer of righteous works (Genesis 18:19). Similarly, it is also true that Abraham believed God, so he obeyed His command to offer Isaac (Hebrews 11:17), so the same faith by which he was declared righteous was also embodied by being an obeyer of God, but he did not earn his righteousness as the result of his obedience (Romans 4:1-5).

fli said:

First David's sins read 2Samuel 12: 7- 15.

Every Christian should know what King David did. He committed adultery with Bathsheba and had Uriah, her husband, killed to cover his crime. Under OT laws He committed 3 sins that could not be forgiven. David committed both sins, adultery and murder, in a high handed way, Numbers 15:30, putting them both as the worst sins under the OT law. There was no sacrifice for what David did but death to both her and him. David was unrepentant for more than 9 months.

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death. 3 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him. 10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. 12 So then, brethren, we are under obligation, not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh — 13 for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. 15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!" 16 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17 and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him. NASU


If a Christian committed the sins in the NT that David committed the scriptures above describe what would happen to him. Again, since both Abraham, used by James, and David are saints, listed in Hebrews 11, we know they both had passed from death to life. That means they both had proven records of hearing and obeying God's word, they both had spiritual minds. In Romans above it means verse 6 applied to them. With spiritual minds they responded by obeying Jesus' directions. They both were sons of God. John 10: 1-6 Once a Christian proves they have a spiritual mind and follow Jesus' voice they prove they are one of His sheep. Therefore, our NT David had passed through Romans above down to verse 17.

Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: 7 "BLESSED ARE THOSE WHOSE LAWLESS DEEDS HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN, AND WHOSE SINS HAVE BEEN COVERED. 8 "BLESSED IS THE MAN WHOSE SIN THE LORD WILL NOT TAKE INTO ACCOUNT." NASU

(First in the above, the one who does not work means, if one is doing work for righteousness, they do not have faith. Which means they do not have righteousness through faith)

Because our NT David was in Jesus and Jesus was in Him, God did not impute any sin to David all the time he was unrepentant. God treated him as a disobedient child. If our David had not repented, meaning David was not obeying Jesus' voice, God would have quit fulfilling the law of sin and death for David. God would have put David to sleep, killed him physically.


1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. 14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. NASU

Our David, for the year he was unrepentant he had built with wood. If he did not repent God would have put him to sleep. Our David would have entered heaven smelling of smoke. Our David was not known as an adulterer or a murderer when he arrived in heaven as God never imputed those sins to him.

The only commandments believers in Jesus have to obey for salvation are:

1 John 3:21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; 22 and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 This is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. 24 The one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. We know by this that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. NASU

The commandments we are to keep for salvation are in verse 23. If we keep those commandments we abide in Jesus and He in us.

1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. 5 And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin (see 1John 3: 24 above). Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him. NKJV

Anyone who abides in Jesus does not sin. They may be disobedient children, but God does not impute sin to disobedient children. (Romans 8: 10) We cannot commit lawlessness because, by God's word He, considers our flesh dead and the law does not apply to dead men.

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In 1 John 2:6, those who abide in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way that he walked, so verses that refer to those who abide in Christ are only refers to those who are following his example of walking in obedience to God's law. In Romans 8:4-7, Paul contrasted those who walk in the Spirit with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to God's law. Nowhere did God fulfill the law of sin and death, but rather He is without sin.

We embody what we believe to be true about God through our works, such as with James 2:18 saying that he would show his faith through his works, so the way to believe in Jesus is by being a doer of the same works as James. In other words, the way to believe in God is by embodying His likeness through being a doer of His character traits. For example, by being a doer of good works in obedience to God's law we are embodying His goodness, which is why our good works bring glory to Him (Matthew 5:16), and by embodying God's goodness we are also expressing the belief that God is good. Likewise, the way to believe that God is a doer of justice is by embodying His likeness through being a doer of justice, the way to believe that God is compassionate is by being compassionate, the way to believe that God is holy is by being a doer of His instructions for how to be holy as He is holy, and so forth. This is exactly the same as the way to believe in the Son, who is the radiance of God's glory and the exact likeness of His character (Hebrews 1:3), which he embodied through his works by setting a sinless example for us to follow of how to walk in obedience to God's law. This is also why the Bible repeatedly connects our obedience to God with our belief in Him, such as with Revelation 14:12 where those who kept faith in Jesus are the same as those who kept God's commandments. So believing in the God's Word made flesh does not refer to something that is an alternative to following His example of embodying God's Word.