What Would Jesus Say About Vaccines?

David Lamb · Saturday at 4:36 AM

Apple Sky said:
No, I'm not suggesting that modern pharmacy is a practice of sorcery, I take tablets everyday but when is came to the covid vaccine it worried me as it had never been fully tested and they couldn't even tell you the ingredients that was in it.

View attachment 370709

But the same word "pharmacist" is used for the person who provides the tablets you take every day, so why argue that because the Greek word from which we get "pharmacy" is translated "sorcerer" in the bible, that the COVID vaccines must be wrong?

As for the picture suggesting that even doctors don't know what is in the vaccines, that is nonsense. Whenever I have had a COVID vaccine, I have been given a leaflet which includes a list of the ingredients. These are available online. For example:

"What Vaxzevria contains
One dose (0.5 ml) contains: COVID-19 Vaccine (ChAdOx1-S* recombinant), not less than 2.5 × 10^8 infectious units

*Recombinant, replication-deficient chimpanzee adenovirus vector encoding the SARS-CoV-2 Spike glycoprotein. Produced in genetically modified human embryonic kidney (HEK) 293 cells.

This product contains genetically modified organisms (GMOs).

The other excipients are:

L-histidine
L-histidine hydrochloride monohydrate
magnesium chloride hexahydrate
polysorbate 80 (E 433)
ethanol
sucrose
sodium chloride
disodium edetate dihydrate
water for injections"

Apple Sky · Saturday at 4:45 AM

David Lamb said:
But the same word "pharmacist" is used for the person who provides the tablets you take every day, so why argue that because the Greek word from which we get "pharmacy" is translated "sorcerer" in the bible, that the COVID vaccines must be wrong?

As for the picture suggesting that even doctors don't know what is in the vaccines, that is nonsense. Whenever I have had a COVID vaccine, I have been given a leaflet which includes a list of the ingredients. These are available online. For example:

"What Vaxzevria contains
One dose (0.5 ml) contains: COVID-19 Vaccine (ChAdOx1-S* recombinant), not less than 2.5 × 10^8 infectious units

*Recombinant, replication-deficient chimpanzee adenovirus vector encoding the SARS-CoV-2 Spike glycoprotein. Produced in genetically modified human embryonic kidney (HEK) 293 cells.

This product contains genetically modified organisms (GMOs).

The other excipients are:

L-histidine

L-histidine hydrochloride monohydrate

magnesium chloride hexahydrate

polysorbate 80 (E 433)

ethanol

sucrose

sodium chloride

disodium edetate dihydrate

water for injections"

The fear that a vaccine will somehow change your DNA is one I've seen aired regularly on social media.

David Lamb · Saturday at 4:49 AM

Apple Sky said:
The fear that a vaccine will somehow change your DNA is one I've seen aired regularly on social media.

Really? Of course there are all sorts of things on social media, but the appearance of something on social media is not proof that it is right. Have any qualified medical practitioners ever said that vaccines can alter a person's DNA?

Strong in Him · Saturday at 5:05 AM

Apple Sky said:
The fear that a vaccine will somehow change your DNA is one I've seen aired regularly on social media.

Yeah, and it's just as daft as the belief that the earth cannot be a ball otherwise we'd fall off.

bèlla · Saturday at 5:35 AM

Strong in Him said:
Some of those "natural remedies" are the basis for medicines.
Digitalis, for example, comes from the Foxglove plant- yet foxglove is poisonous. How do you know the safe dosage and which dosage will kill you? That's what pharmacists and scientists are for.
Also, aspirin is the synthetic version of a chemical found in the sap of the willow tree. The real, "neat", version was found to be too harsh on the stomach, so a diluted, synthetic version was made.

Though there is no doubt that the Lord heals, not every illness/disability is healed through prayer.

Talking to christians is like conversing with children. You take the simplest things and make them hard. Why do you struggle with difference? Must your reality be everyone else’s? Just accept the fact God has a different plan for that person. It isn’t complicated.

I‘ve been healed from two incurable diseases and an ailment. And I wasn’t on a prayer list nor did anyone lay hands. I prayed as I was told. Now what? Don’t be so quick to say what God won’t do. This isn’t a democracy. It’s a monarchy. The King will do as He wills.

~bella

bèlla · Saturday at 5:39 AM

Apple Sky said:
The fear that a vaccine will somehow change your DNA is one I've seen aired regularly on social media.

Submit your concerns in prayer and let the Lord guide you. Many speak from their head but its the lesser region and soulish. Let your spirit be in the drivers seat.

~bella

Tuur · Saturday at 5:43 AM

Strong in Him said:
Some of those "natural remedies" are the basis for medicines.
Digitalis, for example, comes from the Foxglove plant- yet foxglove is poisonous. How do you know the safe dosage and which dosage will kill you? That's what pharmacists and scientists are for.
Also, aspirin is the synthetic version of a chemical found in the sap of the willow tree. The real, "neat", version was found to be too harsh on the stomach, so a diluted, synthetic version was made.

Though there is no doubt that the Lord heals, not every illness/disability is healed through prayer.

If medicine is bad, why did Paul advise Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake? And the Gospel of Luke and The Acts of the Apostles was written by a 1st Century doctor.

Natural remedies were all that we had until the development of things like sulfa drugs. Even antibiotics is relatively recent. The problem is preparing natural remedies so that it doesn't lose the chemicals that are effective and so it's in the right dosage. My mother's life was very likely saved by a specific remedy prescribed by a doctor (that I won't repeat here) that had to be prepared in a specific way. This was before antibiotics, though it was known that this remedy contained an antibacterial compound save for ingestion. My father's mother knew how to make all sorts of remedies and the reason they worked, but she stopped when modern medicines were available because the dosage was more consistent, and that made it safer.

A Word of Warning: Just Because It's Natural Doesn't Mean it's Safe. I can think of a number of poisonous plants we would pull up and cut down let it poison animals on the farm, and one I cut down out of the yard because it would be toxic to the children. And all those poisonous plants were 100% natural.

Sometimes natural remedies can be flat-out wrong. Ever hear of the Florida Fever Tree? Pinckneya bracteata. It's a tree found in Georgia and Florida that the bark was used in treating fevers. The original assumption was that it was related to the tree that quinine comes from and also contained quinine. But a study done in the mid 20th Century (think it was in the 1960s) found it had no quinine at all.

David Lamb · Saturday at 5:46 AM

bèlla said:
Talking to christians is like conversing with children. You take the simplest things and make them hard. Why do you struggle with difference? Must your reality be everyone else’s? Just accept the fact God has a different plan for that person. It isn’t complicated.

I‘ve been healed from two incurable diseases and an ailment. And I wasn’t on a prayer list nor did anyone lay hands. I prayed as I was told. Now what? Don’t be so quick to say what God won’t do. This isn’t a democracy. It’s a monarchy. The King will do as He wills.

~bella

But Strong in Him certainly was not "quick to say what God won’t do." She wrote: "Though there is no doubt that the Lord heals, not every illness/disability is healed through prayer." I would agree with that, and we have the biblical example of Paul's "thorn in the flesh." Paul prayed three times that the Lord would heal him, But the Lord answered, "My grace is sufficient for you."

Tuur · Saturday at 6:02 AM

Apple Sky said:
Why were they so eager to push it ? All's covid was were a bad dose of the flu.

Moderna also had one, and it's not a division of Pfizer.

As to why it was pushed, remember than the Spanish Flu was "just the flu." Now consider that the coronavirus that causes COVID-19 had never been encountered by humans before. It was completely new. If anyone had any resistance, it was moderate at best. I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation based on Spanish Flu, and the results were shocking.

If you read between the lines and do some digging, it's easy to suspect what was unsaid was that there was potential to misdiagnose COVID-19 and the quick test wasn't 100% reliable. Add that with the disease being contagious prior to symptoms, along with people never encountering it before, and you get the call for vaccinations.

Let's not forget the original virus was very nasty. I know people who died from it, some with pre-existing conditions. The virus then mutated to less nasty forms. Even that, like "just the flu," can be fatal. I contracted Omicron and whether it was because it was less nasty or partial immunity from the vaccine, it wasn't that bad for me. The same for both my wife and me when we caught whatever version was in circulation a couple of years ago. But across the hall from my wife's examination room was someone who could barely breath, and from what was overheard it was from COVID-19.

For what it's worth, I know of a healthy person who was younger than me who died from "just the flu." Another datapoint to toss out;.

The question that's not being discussed in the "news" is whether the risk from the current versions of COVID-19 is sufficient to offset the risk from the vaccines. That's something that's evaluated for all vaccines. You don't hear much about that, either.

bèlla · Saturday at 6:28 AM

David Lamb said:
But Strong in Him certainly was not "quick to say what God won’t do." She wrote: "Though there is no doubt that the Lord heals, not every illness/disability is healed through prayer." I would agree with that, and we have the biblical example of Paul's "thorn in the flesh." Paul prayed three times that the Lord would heal him, But the Lord answered, "My grace is sufficient for you."

It‘s better to ask instead. You don’t know the person, their background, gifting or calling. Recounting what the bible says doesn’t address that scenario. I’ve been healed three times and in that context your suppositions were debunked.

~bella

David Lamb · Saturday at 6:31 AM

bèlla said:
It‘s better to ask instead. You don’t know the person, their background, gifting or calling. Recounting what the bible says doesn’t address that scenario. I’ve been healed three times and in that context your suppositions were debunked.

~bella

I wasn't making any suppositions, just pointing out that Strong in Him had not written what you suggested she had written. I am very sorry that I obviously didn't word my post clearly enough, and caused you to misunderstand it. I certainly was not casting doubt on your healings.

Strong in Him · Saturday at 6:38 AM

bèlla said:
Talking to christians is like conversing with children. You take the simplest things and make them hard. Why do you struggle with difference? Must your reality be everyone else’s? Just accept the fact God has a different plan for that person. It isn’t complicated.

I was just pointing out that some medicines are plant based.
I said nothing about whether or not you should take them - nor did I judge either practice (natural remedies or traditional medicines) to be better than the other.
Why are some people so touchy?

bèlla said:
I‘ve been healed from two incurable diseases and an ailment. And I wasn’t on a prayer list nor did anyone lay hands. I prayed as I was told. Now what? Don’t be so quick to say what God won’t do.

Where did I say that God won't do something? All I said was that not everything is healed through prayer. You only need to look at Joni Eareckson-Tada to see the truth of that.
That wasn't a criticism of you but a comment.

I was healed from M.E. - overnight - after 18 years. I'm fully aware of what God is able to do, thank you.

bèlla said:
The King will do as He wills.

I know.
And in some cases that might mean not healing through prayer or the first time someone is prayed for.

If the King told you to take traditional medicines, I hope you'd do it.

bèlla · Saturday at 7:25 AM

Strong in Him said:
Why are some people so touchy?

I made a simple comment and didn’t mention anything specific regarding the things I take. You brought that up along with questions on dosage which I never addressed.

Strong in Him said:
Where did I say that God won't do something? All I said was that not everything is healed through prayer. You only need to look at Joni Eareckson-Tada to see the truth of that.
That wasn't a criticism of you but a comment.

I’m aware He doesn’t heal everyone but you chose to respond to me in relation to my comment.

Strong in Him said:
If the King told you to take traditional medicines, I hope you'd do it.

Why do you keep bringing it up? It’s my body. Let me manage it and you look after yours. That isn’t hard.

~bella

bèlla · Saturday at 7:47 AM

David Lamb said:
I wasn't making any suppositions, just pointing out that Strong in Him had not written what you suggested she had written. I am very sorry that I obviously didn't word my post clearly enough, and caused you to misunderstand it. I certainly was not casting doubt on your healings.

The majority don’t treat their health as a democracy and ask everyone to weigh in. Whether we agree or not it’s theirs to choose. You have your perspective on the subject and that’s fine. Only you can decide what’s best and I wouldn’t intervene. I respect your right to choose. If you ask my opinion I’ll give it. Otherwise I won’t.

~bella

Lukaris · Saturday at 8:21 AM

Vaccines are a form of medicine administered by a doctor. This is referred to in the Deuterocanon book of Ecclesiasticus (Sirach) 38:1-15. While this book is debated as scripture ( in Orthodoxy & Catholicism it is scripture), this writing is traditionally regarded as useful for basic moral instruction in Protestantism. What Sirach says about doctors & medicine was approved in the Lord’s time & practically sound today.

ECCLESIASTICUS 38 KJV

Ecclesiasticus 38 KJV: ...

m.kingjamesbibleonline.org

Strong in Him · Saturday at 8:57 AM

bèlla said:
I made a simple comment and didn’t mention anything specific regarding the things I take.

Neither did I.

If that had been my aim I would have said, "why are you doing that?/stop doing it". Or "you shouldn't take those remedies."
I didn't.
I just made the point that some medicines are based on/taken from plants. I didn't even say whether that was good or bad; I just made the comment,.

bèlla said:
You brought that up along with questions on dosage which I never addressed.

I'm sorry if I wasn't very clear but what I meant was, "how does someone know what dosage to take?"
I did not mean, or say, "you, personally".

bèlla said:
I’m aware He doesn’t heal everyone but you chose to respond to me in relation to my comment.

Again, maybe I wasn't clear - it was not an attack on you.
But when I had M.E I did receive a number of comments on these forums that "prayer is all you need." "God heals through prayer, not by doctors."
Your statement reminded me of that - but, again, I was not attacking you.

bèlla said:
Why do you keep bringing it up?

I don't.

bèlla said:
Let me manage it and you look after yours.

You can do what you want with it; I'm not fussed.

But you made a comment on a public forum that you don't take medicines and use only natural remedies and prayer.
If you didn't want anyone to comment, or possibly disagree with you, maybe you shouldn't have said it.

chevyontheriver · Saturday at 2:13 PM

Strong in Him said:
So why link the word "Pharmacy" with "sorcery", suggesting that there is something sinister, magical or false about it?

There is a perspective from the Tradition of the Church which explains it. Not that those who reject Tradition out of hand will be able to hear it. The ancient classical Greek world was as sex soaked as we are today. They were intent on contraception and abortion too, and there was a lively trade in things like Nile crocodile dung as a proven contraceptive. It probably caused an infection that left a woman sterile in the process. The early Church forbade any of these contraceptive or abortifacient potions, in keeping with Israelite understandings, starting with the apostle Paul and continuing into modernity.

Dale · Saturday at 2:51 PM

Before the measles vaccine was introduced in 1963, almost all children got measles. While most recovered without lasting harm, there can be lasting effects. Measles can cause blindness and damage the immune system, increasing the likelihood and severity of other illnesses.

Between 2000 and 2023, a 24 year period, the measles vaccine is believed to have prevented 60 million deaths worldwide. That is similar to the number who died in WW II. Even today, about 107,500 people die from measles every year, mostly unvaccinated children. (World Health Organization, www.who.int; search for measles)

What difference does vaccination make? Measles is very contagious. “Experts estimate that if one person in a room of unvaccinated people has measles, 9 out of 10 people in the room will catch it.” Droplets from an infected person can float in the air for two hours after they leave. What do you do after you catch measles? The only treatment is rest in bed and hope you get over it. Measles is a virus and we have anti-viral drugs but none are effective against measles. (myclevelandclinic.org)

Dale · Saturday at 2:56 PM

d taylor said:
-

That is crazy trying to take Jesus and His healing a leper. To say Jesus would support vaccines.

This example in ( Luke) The Bible was for showing Israels leadership that He was The Promised Messiah.

Do you understand that a leper colony is a form of quarantine?

Harper’s Bible Dictionary (1973) on Leprosy:
“It was certainly regarded as ceremonially unclean, and this was a reflection of the laws of hygiene designed to prevent the spread of infections for which there was no effective treatment. The priest had the authority to diagnose and to isolate the patient, and only the priest could pronounce him cured or ‘clean’ again.”

Old Testament priests did function as doctors and had authority we would associate with the health department, with respect to “leprosy” or infectious skin diseases. For instance, the priests could order contaminated clothing or other articles to be washed or even burned. (Leviticus 13:50-58)

The priest could order a person to kept in isolation for a temporary period. (Leviticus 13:4, 26) If a skin infection is incurable, the priest could order a person to “live outside the camp” or town. In later times this meant that the priest could banish someone to a leper colony.

As long as he has the infection he remains unclean. He must live alone; he must live outside the camp.
Leviticus 13:46 NIV

The priests also had the authority to inspect houses for harboring infection. If necessary, the priest could order a stone house disassembled and the stones taken out of town and thrown into a pit. (Leviticus 14:34-45)

Leviticus 13 uses the word “examine” about 25 times. The priest has the responsibility to examine a person’s skin, or clothing, or a house for signs of infection and contagion. This is a job we would associate with a doctor or health department. When Jesus told the leper to see a Levite priest for an examination, He said to respect the recognized authority in these matters.

Dale · Saturday at 2:58 PM

d taylor said:
-

That is crazy trying to take Jesus and His healing a leper. To say Jesus would support vaccines.

This example in ( Luke) The Bible was for showing Israels leadership that He was The Promised Messiah.

Lepers and leper colonies are so foreign to our experience that we have trouble understanding the situation. That is because true leprosy can be treated. Antibiotics can arrest the progress of the disease but cannot replace tissue that has been destroyed.

Harper’s Bible Dictionary (1973) under Leprosy has a photo of lepers in Palestine in the 20th century.

Caption: “Lepers along a Palestine road, c. 1930. Such sights have disappeared in Palestine today, thanks to modern medicine.”

The United States had leper colonies until the mid-20th century. The most famous one was in Hawaii. These were a form of quarantine. In the early 20th century, quarantine was authorized by law for several serious diseases. The archives of the Smithsonian Institution have an unsigned card from around 1920 that could be used to quarantine a house or apartment in Connecticut. The card declares a quarantine for diptheria but quarantines for polio, scarlet fever and smallpox were also possible.

https://www.si.edu/object/quarantine-diphtheria-all-persons-are-forbidden-enter-or-leave-these-premises-without-permission%3Anmah_1292350

What Would Jesus Say About Vaccines?

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