Leviticus 20, Charlie Kirk, and Homosexuality

iarwain said:

I have been hearing repeatedly from numerous left wingers that Charlie Kirk advocated stoning gays to death, calling it "God's perfect law". Obviously this is referring to Leviticus 20:13, which tells the Israelites to put both men to death if they commit a homosexual act. Leviticus 20 also condemns incest, bestiality, and other sexual immoralities. This was part of the agreement for the Israelites to keep their new land God was giving them.

I have heard others say that particular verse was an "ancient mistranslation", as some people simply cannot accept the idea that God does not advocate for homosexuality. Anyway: We are not living under Levitical law, and I in no way believe for one moment that Charlie Kirk thought that we should be stoning gays to death in 2025 in the United States. But he believed in the Bible, and I don't doubt he called it "God's perfect law".

Of course these sentences sound harsh to modern ears, although I have no problem with them. God wanted His chosen people to be clean and free of immorality, and many Old Testament passages sound pretty rough - especially compared with the gospel, God's perfect solution to the problem of sin.

So this is what I want to ask you: Do you discount Leviticus 20? Do you think that God would never have said this? Do you think Leviticus 20:13 is the result of an "ancient mistranslation"? It seems pretty clear to me. As I've said, I have no problem with these verses, far be it from me to tell God how to conduct HIs business. The penalties are rough, true, but the wages of sin are death. You don't get much rougher than that. God has high standards, and only accepts perfection. Which is why we all need His son.

I'm just asking because it seems there are so many in the modern world who simply can't accept that there could be such violent consequences for breaking God's law. Or that certain things would even be in God's law.

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I don't know Kirk's teaching well enough to comment on what he though exactly about what America should do with gays. I do think he was a sincere Christian, though like most of us was adapting some his doctrine to follow God the best he could.
To help your own views, please consider adusting "I have no problem with them," concerning the laws for stoning. Though I do not have full understandin of your position from that statement alone, I can offer some distinctions that Christians should consider. At a minimum those laws were designed for OT believers, not unbelievers. But yes, to your question did God mean what he wrote about stoning in Leviticus, yes, it was practiced. Amazingly, Saul and his son Jonathan were going to stone Jonathan to death because of an oath saul made about fasting. Fortunately, the people let cooler heads prevail on that occasion.
Even in the time of Jesus some Jews were right there willing to stone the adulturous woman. Jesus of course stopped that by writing in the sand, but when he finished his lesson, everyone walkked away and the woman was not condemned by Jesus either.

Romans 1 too describes God turning people over to sin, including homosexuality. I would think that if God wanted them dead he would have had Paul repeat the OT law. Some people in that state, do repent. So consider the contexts of God's laws to only OT believers, versus God's will today for a Christian and a non-Christian. (Of course there are disagreements too as to Christian moral conduct between some denominations).

Stopping abortion is just because if the unborn is a person, then that unborn person has rights and deserves to be protected. While I would want prayer in public schools, I probably would prefer to do that at home because who knows what Christian version or other religious prayer might be given. A better alternative would be to allow a smal part of teh school day for religious teachers from the community to come and prayer and teach those who parents approve of it.

I am not sure how far MAGA desires to go with moral laws. I know one country that does not recognize divorce and adultery can bring jail time. Altogether, Christians should be mindful that laws can prevent some sin, (removing the abortion pill for instance) but like prohibition, it will not stop sin. Christians too should want government to protect freedoms. Kirk might have liked blue laws where you could not buy anything on Sunday which America had in the past. It is not a terrible idea but it disregards other faiths that worship on different days. It also disrupts unbelievers who do not care. So while a Christian like Kirk can employ the Sabbath personally, we do not have to force others to do it. What Christians need to do is preach the truth of the gospel and get others to obey God willingly, rather than be forceful on so many issues. Instead I think some try to win the war in the flesh, when it really is won by prayer and example.

iarwain said:

I have been hearing repeatedly from numerous left wingers that Charlie Kirk advocated stoning gays to death, calling it "God's perfect law". Obviously this is referring to Leviticus 20:13, which tells the Israelites to put both men to death if they commit a homosexual act. Leviticus 20 also condemns incest, bestiality, and other sexual immoralities. This was part of the agreement for the Israelites to keep their new land God was giving them.

I have heard others say that particular verse was an "ancient mistranslation", as some people simply cannot accept the idea that God does not advocate for homosexuality. Anyway: We are not living under Levitical law, and I in no way believe for one moment that Charlie Kirk thought that we should be stoning gays to death in 2025 in the United States. But he believed in the Bible, and I don't doubt he called it "God's perfect law".

Of course these sentences sound harsh to modern ears, although I have no problem with them. God wanted His chosen people to be clean and free of immorality, and many Old Testament passages sound pretty rough - especially compared with the gospel, God's perfect solution to the problem of sin.

So this is what I want to ask you: Do you discount Leviticus 20? Do you think that God would never have said this? Do you think Leviticus 20:13 is the result of an "ancient mistranslation"? It seems pretty clear to me. As I've said, I have no problem with these verses, far be it from me to tell God how to conduct HIs business. The penalties are rough, true, but the wages of sin are death. You don't get much rougher than that. God has high standards, and only accepts perfection. Which is why we all need His son.

I'm just asking because it seems there are so many in the modern world who simply can't accept that there could be such violent consequences for breaking God's law. Or that certain things would even be in God's law.

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The wages of sin is death. In the OT they were under a theocracy, where God would often make judgement as He saw fit.

In the NC, judgement is the last day. John 12:48. Its the same consequence Rom 6:23 if we do not have a change of heart and turn from sin Pro 28:13 and abide in Him. John 15:5-10

God's Law is perfect Psa 19:7 but sadly many people choose to stay in darkness over coming to the light (Jesus Truth) 14:6 Psa 119:151 John 3:19-21 The law is not the issue Rom 7:12 the issue is turning from God's Law which is turning from God. Rom 8:7-8 Isa 59:2 1 John3:4 Mat 7:23 1 John 2:4 John 14:15 Rev 14:12 1 John 5:3 Exo 20:6

iarwain said:

I have been hearing repeatedly from numerous left wingers that Charlie Kirk advocated stoning gays to death, calling it "God's perfect law". Obviously this is referring to Leviticus 20:13, which tells the Israelites to put both men to death if they commit a homosexual act. Leviticus 20 also condemns incest, bestiality, and other sexual immoralities. This was part of the agreement for the Israelites to keep their new land God was giving them.

I have heard others say that particular verse was an "ancient mistranslation", as some people simply cannot accept the idea that God does not advocate for homosexuality. Anyway: We are not living under Levitical law, and I in no way believe for one moment that Charlie Kirk thought that we should be stoning gays to death in 2025 in the United States. But he believed in the Bible, and I don't doubt he called it "God's perfect law".

Of course these sentences sound harsh to modern ears, although I have no problem with them. God wanted His chosen people to be clean and free of immorality, and many Old Testament passages sound pretty rough - especially compared with the gospel, God's perfect solution to the problem of sin.

So this is what I want to ask you: Do you discount Leviticus 20? Do you think that God would never have said this? Do you think Leviticus 20:13 is the result of an "ancient mistranslation"? It seems pretty clear to me. As I've said, I have no problem with these verses, far be it from me to tell God how to conduct HIs business. The penalties are rough, true, but the wages of sin are death. You don't get much rougher than that. God has high standards, and only accepts perfection. Which is why we all need His son.

I'm just asking because it seems there are so many in the modern world who simply can't accept that there could be such violent consequences for breaking God's law. Or that certain things would even be in God's law.

Click to expand...

Old Testament law lists various sins punishable by stoning, including:
* Blasphemy: Cursing God.
* Idolatry: Worshipping false gods, enticing others to idolatry, being a false prophet, or sacrificing children to Molech.
* Sexual Immorality: Adultery, incest, bestiality, male homosexuality, and a betrothed woman having sex with a man other than her fiancé.
* Rebellion: A stubborn and rebellious son who disobeys his parents, or a person who curses or strikes a parent.
* Desecrating the Sabbath: Working on the Sabbath.
* Witchcraft: Practicing sorcery, divination, or being a medium.
* Kidnapping: Stealing a person.

iarwain said:

I have been hearing repeatedly from numerous left wingers that Charlie Kirk advocated stoning gays to death, calling it "God's perfect law". Obviously this is referring to Leviticus 20:13, which tells the Israelites to put both men to death if they commit a homosexual act. Leviticus 20 also condemns incest, bestiality, and other sexual immoralities. This was part of the agreement for the Israelites to keep their new land God was giving them.

I have heard others say that particular verse was an "ancient mistranslation", as some people simply cannot accept the idea that God does not advocate for homosexuality. Anyway: We are not living under Levitical law, and I in no way believe for one moment that Charlie Kirk thought that we should be stoning gays to death in 2025 in the United States. But he believed in the Bible, and I don't doubt he called it "God's perfect law".

Of course these sentences sound harsh to modern ears, although I have no problem with them. God wanted His chosen people to be clean and free of immorality, and many Old Testament passages sound pretty rough - especially compared with the gospel, God's perfect solution to the problem of sin.

So this is what I want to ask you: Do you discount Leviticus 20? Do you think that God would never have said this? Do you think Leviticus 20:13 is the result of an "ancient mistranslation"? It seems pretty clear to me. As I've said, I have no problem with these verses, far be it from me to tell God how to conduct HIs business. The penalties are rough, true, but the wages of sin are death. You don't get much rougher than that. God has high standards, and only accepts perfection. Which is why we all need His son.

I'm just asking because it seems there are so many in the modern world who simply can't accept that there could be such violent consequences for breaking God's law. Or that certain things would even be in God's law.

Click to expand...

I did a quick AI query:

Reports state that in a June 2024 episode of his podcast, Charlie Kirk was responding to a video by YouTuber "Ms. Rachel" who had cited scripture to defend her support for Pride month. In his response, Kirk said, "And it says, by the way, Ms. Rachel, might want to crack open that Bible of yours, in a lesser referenced part of the same part of scripture is in Leviticus 18, is that thou shall lay with another man shall be stoned to death. Just saying. So, Ms. Rachel, you quote Leviticus 19, love your neighbor as yourself. The chapter before affirms God's perfect law when it comes to sexual matters."
You can find clips and full episodes of his podcast online, including on platforms like YouTube. Some sources suggest this specific statement was made on a June 8, 2024, episode of his podcast.

As far as stoning is concerned, we can take our lead from Jesus Christ of Nazareth, "He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”
And a reminder, we are now under the New Covenant and most importantly, the only person who was under the law and sinless did not cast a single stone.
Blessings

According to Scripture, under the law means under the condemnation of the law- the wages of sin is death Rom6:23 which we all are under the law or condemnation unless we are abiding in Jesus Christ. Under the law, doe not mean that we can bypass Gods laws and lay it aside for others to keep that is what Jesus called worshipping Him in vain Mark 7:7-13 Mat 15:3-14 and sinning 1 John3:4, which is worthy according to God, to be left outside God's Kingdom. Rom 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15 1 John 2:4 unless we change our direction and abide in Him John 15:5-10 1 John 2:6 1 John 3:24 which of course means keeping God's Laws Rev 14:12 Rev 22:14. I do not think Jesus could have made this more plain

Luke 6:46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those (does not say only Jesus) who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Jesus was under the law, just as we, because He could not be our example to follow had He not overcome in human form just as we can through Him. Heb 4:15 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 John 14:15-18 John 15:5,10

SabbathBlessings said:

The wages of sin is death. In the OT they were under a theocracy, where God would often make judgement as He saw fit.

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Matthew 22:36-40

New International Version

​

36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

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In our society today, those who fail to love their neighbors as themselves (or even to be marginally kind to them) are far more numerous than LGBT citizens. Maybe the uncaring and unloving should stop condemning the LGBT citizens and consider the planks in their own eyes.

SabbathBlessings said:

Jesus was under the law, just as we, because He could not be our example to follow had He not overcome in human form just as we can through Him. Heb 4:15 1 John 2:6 1 Peter 2:21-22 John 14:15-18 John 15:5,10

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But yet...He broke the law of stoning the adultress woman. So what does this mean? It means that love goes beyond the written law which Jesus Christ of Nazareth proceeded to show the woman through forgiveness.

Maria Billingsley said:

But yet...He broke the law of stoning the adultress woman. So what does this mean? It means that love goes beyond the written law which Jesus Christ of Nazareth proceeded to show the woman through forgiveness.

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Jesus did not break any laws, judgement in the NC is the last day. John 12:48 and not everyone who says Lord Lord (believers) will enter into His kingdom Mat 7:21-23 Rev 22:14-15

What you also seemed to forget about the adulteress women, while Jesus gave her grace, what did He tell her to do- Go and sin no more- which means do not continue breaking God's Law. We are all living in grace because we have all sinned, but does that mean we can continue sinning- of course not. Why would anyone who loves Jesus with all their heart, mind and soul want to do so after all He suffered on the cross for us Rom 6:1-4, it is insulting the spirit of grace.

It’s sad when people try to make Jesus out to be a sinner, when He said He never sinned or broke any Laws. John 8:46 John 15:10 Jesus never came into the world the first time to condemn, but we all have to stand before Him on Judgement Day at His Second Coming. 2 Cor 5:10 Rev 11:18-19 where He will condemn or give the gift of grace eternal life. He tells us who He shows mercy to Exo 20:6 sadly many want His blessings but not His teachings.

If you believe we can sin without changing direction despite so much clear Scripture on this all I can say is I will pray for you and those who you teach and follow this teachings that Jesus clearly said is the wrong path, one He said leads people in a ditch, which is off the narrow path. Mat 5:19 Mat 15:3-14. We were warned about smooth words that tickles the ears 2 Timothy 4:3-4 I know it sounds good that we can live how we want and not keep God's law and be saved. Its similar to the first lie that deceived our first parents, that we can disobey God and live, the opposite of what God said. Sadly this deception continues to work.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” [g]says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

Fantine said:

In our society today, those who fail to love their neighbors as themselves (or even to be marginally kind to them) are far more numerous than LGBT citizens. Maybe the uncaring and unloving should stop condemning the LGBT citizens and consider the planks in their own eyes.

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Sin is sin, committing adultery for heterosexuals is no different than a man lying with another man. I do not think they need to be treated differently, I do not believe God will either. While we need to encourage our brothers and sisters to come out from the darkness, but its not our place to condemn. Jesus loves all people and wants all people to be saved. Sadly as Scripture teaches, not everyone wants to come out of darkness, because they like their sins over their love for Jesus to seek His help in forsaking our sins. John 3:19-21 John 14:15-18 Pro 28:13 1 John 1:9

iarwain said:

I have been hearing repeatedly from numerous left wingers that Charlie Kirk advocated stoning gays to death, calling it "God's perfect law". Obviously this is referring to Leviticus 20:13, which tells the Israelites to put both men to death if they commit a homosexual act. Leviticus 20 also condemns incest, bestiality, and other sexual immoralities. This was part of the agreement for the Israelites to keep their new land God was giving them.

I have heard others say that particular verse was an "ancient mistranslation", as some people simply cannot accept the idea that God does not advocate for homosexuality. Anyway: We are not living under Levitical law, and I in no way believe for one moment that Charlie Kirk thought that we should be stoning gays to death in 2025 in the United States. But he believed in the Bible, and I don't doubt he called it "God's perfect law".

Of course these sentences sound harsh to modern ears, although I have no problem with them. God wanted His chosen people to be clean and free of immorality, and many Old Testament passages sound pretty rough - especially compared with the gospel, God's perfect solution to the problem of sin.

So this is what I want to ask you: Do you discount Leviticus 20? Do you think that God would never have said this? Do you think Leviticus 20:13 is the result of an "ancient mistranslation"? It seems pretty clear to me. As I've said, I have no problem with these verses, far be it from me to tell God how to conduct HIs business. The penalties are rough, true, but the wages of sin are death. You don't get much rougher than that. God has high standards, and only accepts perfection. Which is why we all need His son.

I'm just asking because it seems there are so many in the modern world who simply can't accept that there could be such violent consequences for breaking God's law. Or that certain things would even be in God's law.

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Considering left wingers. Many of these same cheer for a "free Palestine", from the river to the sea. Yet what would happen to these Lgbtq people? DEATH!