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  • CF has always been a site that welcomes people from different backgrounds and beliefs to participate in discussion and even debate. That is the nature of its ministry. In view of recent events emotions are running very high. We need to remind people of some basic principles in debating on this site. We need to be civil when we express differences in opinion. No personal attacks. Avoid you, your statements. Don't characterize an entire political party with comparisons to Fascism or Communism or other extreme movements that committed atrocities. CF is not the place for broad brush or blanket statements about groups and political parties. Put the broad brushes and blankets away when you come to CF, better yet, put them in the incinerator. Debate had no place for them. We need to remember that people that commit acts of violence represent themselves or a small extreme faction.

The Trump DOJ goes "woke" and will target free speech.

Hentenza

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Not at all. Harris, Hillary Clinton, and Obama were all center-left. The far left didn't vote for Harris.
Hilary Clinton’s senate voting record puts her more towards the far left than center. She might have started center left but moved towards the progressive side, primarily after contending with Bernie Sanders during the 2016 primaries.

Kamala Harris senate voting record also puts her on the more far left progressive side. However, she tempered her views during the 2024 campaign to a more winnable moderate approach. She was even called pragmatic in some circles because of her shift to try to win against Trump.

I agree with you about Obama.
 
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NxNW

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Hilary Clinton’s senate voting record puts her more towards the far left than center. She might have started center left but moved towards the progressive side, primarily after contending with Bernie Sanders during the 2016 primaries.
She's more famous for voting for Iraq War #2, which turned off the far left.
Kamala Harris senate voting record also puts her on the more far left progressive side.
She's better-known for her prosecutorial record, which turned off the far left.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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Hilary Clinton’s senate voting record puts her more towards the far left than center. She might have started center left but moved towards the progressive side, primarily after contending with Bernie Sanders during the 2016 primaries.

Kamala Harris senate voting record also puts her on the more far left progressive side. However, she tempered her views during the 2024 campaign to a more winnable moderate approach. She was even called pragmatic in some circles because of her shift to try to win against Trump.

I agree with you about Obama.
Senate voting record is really only a useful metric for comparing senators to each other. It means nothing outside of that because the senate is an inherently conservative body - nothing that they're voting on is truly "far left."
 
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Hentenza

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She's more famous for voting for Iraq War #2, which turned off the far left.

She's better-known for her prosecutorial record, which turned off the far left.
Is this what you remember or did you actually look it up? There much more to them than just what you stated.
 
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Hentenza

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Senate voting record is really only a useful metric for comparing senators to each other. It means nothing outside of that because the senate is an inherently conservative body - nothing that they're voting on is truly "far left."
I disagree with you. Bernie Sanders would be an example.
 
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essentialsaltes

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This slice of the thread is not about people, but about FCC chairman Carr.

The right went bananas when the Biden administration suggested to social media companies that they shouldn't spread misinformation. Now, the government suggested 'suspend that guy right there' and that guy gets suspended.
Speaking of administrations suggesting things to social media....

A Discord spokesperson said last week that an internal investigation has “not found or received any evidence that the suspect planned this incident on Discord or promoted violence on Discord.” Messages “about weapon retrieval and planning details,” the spokesperson stressed, “were not Discord messages, and likely took place on a phone-number based messaging platform.”

That did not stop Kentucky Republican Rep. James Comer, chair of the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee, from sending letters Wednesday to the chief executive officers of Discord — and other online gaming and social platforms Steam, Twitch and Reddit — requesting them to testify at an Oct 8. committee hearing on online radicalization.

“In the wake of this tragedy, and amid other acts of politically motivated violence, Congress has a duty to oversee the online platforms that radicals have used to advance political violence,” Comer said in a statement. He called on the CEOs of Discord and other networks to “explain what actions they will take to ensure their platforms are not exploited for nefarious purposes.”

--

In 2017, just two years after Discord was founded, white supremacists used the site to plan the deadly “Unite the Right” rally in Charlottesville, Va. [Discord then started a content moderation system.]

But in 2022, Discord made the news again: Payton Gendron, an 18-year-old white supremacist who killed 10 people in a Buffalo, N.Y., supermarket, used the platform for more than a year and a half to plan his attack.

Still, while Discord is a platform extremists use to communicate, it is not the only one and extremists do not make up the bulk of its users, said Brian Levin, the founder of the Center for the Study of Hate and Extremism and professor emeritus at California State University, San Bernardino.

Rather than scrutinize Discord and other social platforms, Levin said, Congress would be better served examining the evolving nature of extremism.

“Discord is just the latest device, much like the cell phone,” Levin said. “If you target a platform, young people and extremists will find a new place to go.”
 
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NxNW

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Is this what you remember or did you actually look it up? There much more to them than just what you stated.
I read polls during the campaigns. Hillary was trying to walk back her Iraq vote for years, and Harris's policy on marijuana, and refusal to cut short certain offenders' sentences turned off a lot of voters.
 
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Hentenza

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I read polls during the campaigns. Hillary was trying to walk back her Iraq vote for years, and Harris's policy on marijuana, and refusal to cut short certain offenders' sentences turned off a lot of voters.
Yes both are true but it’s a bit deeper than this. The message that the Democratic Party put out in the last election did not match Harris moderate shift. In fact the democratic views on immigration, obsessiveness with cultural issues, and soft on crime stances, all progressive and far left stances, lost the party many votes in the last election. You argue that the far left does not run your party but the perception (and truth) is that it does. I’m an independent and those issues turned me away from voting democrat in the last cycle and might again in the next cycle unless the message and stances change.
 
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FireDragon76

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Yes both are true but it’s a bit deeper than this. The message that the Democratic Party put out in the last election did not match Harris moderate shift. In fact the democratic views on immigration, obsessiveness with cultural issues, and soft on crime stances, all progressive and far left stances, lost the party many votes in the last election. You argue that the far left does not run your party but the perception (and truth) is that it does. I’m an independent and those issues turned me away from voting democrat in the last cycle and might again in the next cycle unless the message and stances change.

The Democrat party lost some long term credibility and has been floundering ever since Obama's decision to bail out the banks in 2009, but cultural issues weren't a major reason for Harris's loss (most Americans ignore cultural issues when it comes to voting, and vote based on perception of the economy).
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I disagree with you. Bernie Sanders would be an example.
An example of what? My point is that someone who registers as "most liberal" based on senate voting record could be anything from a political moderate to a full-blown communist because the senate never actually votes on anything that could be considered "far left".

When I say that the senate is "inherently conservative," that's not a statement on the politics of the individual senators, but rather the bills that they vote on and their general agenda as a legislative body.
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Not at all. Harris, Hillary Clinton, and Obama were all center-left. The far left didn't vote for Harris.
Hello? I dont know where you have been in the last 10 years. But last I checked, Hillary, Harris, and Obama are not running anything right now, much less the Democratic Party. Would you like to try again with the red herring?
 
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Hentenza

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The Democrat party lost some long term credibility and has been floundering ever since Obama's decision to bail out the banks in 2009, but cultural issues weren't a major reason for Harris's loss (most Americans ignore cultural issues when it comes to voting, and vote based on perception of the economy).
Many of us independents did not ignore the cultural issues primarily the compulsion of pronouns and the erosion of parental rights among many others.
 
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Hentenza

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An example of what? My point is that someone who registers as "most liberal" based on senate voting record could be anything from a political moderate to a full-blown communist because the senate never actually votes on anything that could be considered "far left".
The view points are expressed and become part of the ideology even if is not being voted on. The views points of Bernie and the squad are well known and their votes sometimes reflect their views.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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The view points are expressed and become part of the ideology even if is not being voted on. The views points of Bernie and the squad are well known and their votes sometimes reflect their views.
I'm not sure what your point is here. When asked why you though Clinton and Harris were far left, you pointed to their senate voting records. I'm just pointing out that, since the senate doesn't actually vote on anything "far-left", them registering towards the liberal end of the spectrum based on voting record is not sufficient to label them "far left."
 
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Oompa Loompa

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Many of us independents did not ignore the cultural issues primarily the compulsion of pronouns and the erosion of parental rights among many others.
And you'd think that after every attempt to push a woke LGBT ideology in Hollywood resulted in a box office failure, Democrats would have gotten the hint that it was a loosing position.
 
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Hentenza

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I'm not sure what your point is here. When asked why you thought Clinton and Harris were far left, you pointed to their senate voting records. I'm just pointing out that, since the senate doesn't actually vote on anything "far-left", them registering towards the liberal end of the spectrum based on voting record is not sufficient to label them "far left."
I don’t share your opinion. Their views affect how they vote. That’s the point. You might want to check out the proposals for far left policies that the Congressional Progressive Caucus is proposing.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I don’t share your opinion. Their views affect how they vote. That’s the point.
I've never argued otherwise. But again, if they aren't actually voting on anything far left, their votes cannot be used as proof that they are "far left."

As an analogy, consider one of those carnival strength tests, where you have to hit a lever with a hammer and try to ring the bell. That lever is weighted and balanced so that it requires a certain amount of force to ring the bell - but any force over that amount is wasted; it doesn't register on the scale because the bell ringing is the only gauge you have. So, if you take that lever and weight it so that 5 pounds of force is enough to ring the bell and hand the hammer to a 10-year-old girl, she's probably going to be able to ring the bell. As would Arnold Schwarzenegger. Now, would you say that this ten-year-old girl is super strong - as strong as Arnold? I mean, after all, they both rang the bell.

No, of course not. Because ringing the bell is not a reliable metric of individual strength, just strength within the context of the carnival game.
 
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childeye 2

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Yes both are true but it’s a bit deeper than this. The message that the Democratic Party put out in the last election did not match Harris moderate shift. In fact the democratic views on immigration, obsessiveness with cultural issues, and soft on crime stances, all progressive and far left stances, lost the party many votes in the last election. You argue that the far left does not run your party but the perception (and truth) is that it does. I’m an independent and those issues turned me away from voting democrat in the last cycle and might again in the next cycle unless the message and stances change.
From reading this post, I'd say you're a victim of propaganda because of sentiments like --> "In fact the democratic views on immigration, obsessiveness with cultural issues, and soft on crime stances, all progressive and far left stances, lost the party many votes in the last election".

I'm a centrist. My advice is that voters should not give much clout into one side's description of what the other side is all about. Typically, a candidates own words show us who they are and what's in their hearts and minds. @NxNW is correct; Democrats tend to lean left, and Republicans tend to lean right in this dichotomy --> Democracy/autocracy.
 
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Hentenza

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I've never argued otherwise. But again, if they aren't actually voting on anything far left, their votes cannot be used as proof that they are "far left."

As an analogy, consider one of those carnival strength tests, where you have to hit a lever with a hammer and try to ring the bell. That lever is weighted and balanced so that it requires a certain amount of force to ring the bell - but any force over that amount is wasted; it doesn't register on the scale because the bell ringing is the only gauge you have. So, if you take that lever and weight it so that 5 pounds of force is enough to ring the bell and hand the hammer to a 10-year-old girl, she's probably going to be able to ring the bell. As would Arnold Schwarzenegger. Now, would you say that this ten-year-old girl is super strong - as strong as Arnold? I mean, after all, they both rang the bell.

No, of course not. Because ringing the bell is not a reliable metric of individual strength, just strength within the context of the carnival game.
I’m sure this makes sense to you but it is germane to the conversation. You might want to check out the proposals for far left policies that the Congressional Progressive Caucus has proposed.
 
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Hentenza

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From reading this post, I'd say you're a victim of propaganda because of sentiments like --> "In fact the democratic views on immigration, obsessiveness with cultural issues, and soft on crime stances, all progressive and far left stances, lost the party many votes in the last election".
I don’t fall for propaganda. If you think it is not true then argue the point.
I'm a centrist. My advice is that voters should not give much clout into one side's description of what the other side is all about. Typically, a candidates own words show us who they are and what's in their hearts and minds. @NxNW is correct; Democrats tend to lean left, and Republicans tend to lean right in this dichotomy --> Democracy/autocracy.
These days democrats seem to lean far left and republicans seem to lean far right. Communication is hardly possible.
 
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