At least two students shot in active shooter situation at Evergreen High School

DaisyDay said:

I didn't say "inner cities" as I don't know.

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Well they do.

DaisyDay said:

I don't know that that is true, but it might be; nearly every school mass shooting does not. Include that in your picture.

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What schools are including? K-12 or also College?

DaisyDay said:

That is nothing other than a smear against the left.

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How can the truth be a smear? We had people.on this very board dedend him because of those nasty insurance CEOs.

DaisyDay said:

I don't know anyone who celebrated - most just shrugged while not condoning the murder.

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You may not personally know anyone, but many on the left were. Its pretty easy to look up. Quite frankly I doubt your ignorance on this matter.

DaisyDay said:

Who? Is he someone who glorifies other forms of violence?

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No, a star that does violent movies. I havent heard of any of these killers claiming they are emulating movie heros.

DaisyDay said:

That seems to be rife on the internet which is certainly not concentrated in the cities.

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Yet cities is still where the majority of violence takes place. There are killers like, Charlie's of course who are radicalized by the internet. Like the trans killer.

DaisyDay said:

I agree, but this past week in particular, way too many posters here have claimed the left is evil while I didn't see a single instance of poster claiming the right is evil. Do you deny that our culture glorifies violence?

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There are most certainly elements of the left that say evil things and support or defend evil.actions. More than whats on the right.

I don't think by and large we glorify violence. I there are subcultures that do.

DaisyDay said:

What I've seen is the opposite. I've seen people who appear to have been waiting for an incident for the excuse to come out demonizing the left. Some came out swinging at transgendered people as well. Confirmation bias? Possibly, but I don't think so.

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No one was "waiting". People saw it coming. The left IS the group that has been demonizing rhe right for a while now. Of course we would expect to see some political violence from radicalized leftists. Just as we should expect to see some violence from the radicalized white supremacists. The difference is tge right doesn't seek to defend or tey and tell people we need to understand where they are coming from.

I don't know if Charlies death is going to make any difference in the lefts rhetoric or not. Im.guess from these threads that it wont.

rjs330 said:

Well they do.

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Well then.

rjs330 said:

What schools are including? K-12 or also College?

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Any school with a mass shooting.

rjs330 said:

How can the truth be a smear? We had people.on this very board dedend him because of those nasty insurance CEOs.

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There's the problem - that's not the truth. I haven't seen anyone on this very board defend him for the murder, but I have seen accusations.

rjs330 said:

You may not personally know anyone, but many on the left were. Its pretty easy to look up. Quite frankly I doubt your ignorance on this matter.

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Sure, "many people are saying...." I'm sure you do doubt anything that contradicts your preconceived notions, that's natural, but your accusation is misplaced. Unlike you, I did not seek out examples and I avoid grievance mongering sites.

rjs330 said:

No, a star that does violent movies. I havent heard of any of these killers claiming they are emulating movie heros.

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You misunderstood the claim which is that American popular culture glorifies violence.

rjs330 said:

Yet cities is still where the majority of violence takes place. There are killers like, Charlie's of course who are radicalized by the internet. Like the trans killer.

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Right, people who want to perpetrate violence on people, go where the people are. GroyperTyler Robertson went where his particular target was.

rjs330 said:

There are most certainly elements of the left that say evil things and support or defend evil.actions. More than whats on the right.

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This here is an inflammatory lie.

rjs330 said:

I don't think by and large we glorify violence. I there are subcultures that do.

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American popular culture does by and large glorify violence. American football is one example - does that count as a subculture? Look at who was put in charge of our nation's education - a pro-wrestling promoter.

rjs330 said:

No one was "waiting". People saw it coming.

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Read this over. Think about it.

rjs330 said:

The left IS the group that has been demonizing rhe right for a while now. Of course we would expect to see some political violence from radicalized leftists. Just as we should expect to see some violence from the radicalized white supremacists. The difference is tge right doesn't seek to defend or tey and tell people we need to understand where they are coming from.

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Projection.

rjs330 said:

I don't know if Charlies death is going to make any difference in the lefts rhetoric or not. Im.guess from these threads that it wont.

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Check your own rhetoric. Mote/beam.

DaisyDay said:

Any school with a mass shooting.

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Okay, then I would agree, because colleges are typically not located in the inner cities.

But that doesn't change the fact that most gun violence happens in the inner cities.

DaisyDay said:

There's the problem - that's not the truth. I haven't seen anyone on this very board defend him for the murder, but I have seen accusations.

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I guess you missed them. I didn't.

DaisyDay said:

Unlike you, I did not seek out examples and I avoid grievance mongering sites.

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All I had to do was do an internet search. It was easy to find. There were some plenty of folks excusing the shooter.

DaisyDay said:

This here is an inflammatory lie.

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I don't believe so.

DaisyDay said:

American popular culture does by and large glorify violence. American football is one example - does that count as a subculture? Look at who was put in charge of our nation's education - a pro-wrestling promoter.

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Sport is not the same thing as real violence. There are subcultures that support real violence.

DaisyDay said:

Read this over. Think about it.

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I don't need to. I wrote it. You should think this over. There is a nuance you missed. Especially I equally when compared to your claim.

DaisyDay said:

Projection

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Truth. The right isn't running around defending white supremacists. Far too many on the left do run around and defend the violence on their side calling for understanding of tge murderers and offering excuses for their actions.

DaisyDay said:

Check your own rhetoric. Mote/beam.

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My eyes are clear.

ViaCrucis said:

I'm not aware of a single country that has gotten rid of all guns. Even where guns are otherwise banned, firearms for the purpose of hunting are still permitted.

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Then why the call for the repeal of the 2nd Ammendment from so many? Charlie was killed with a bolt action hunting rifle. Recently killings were done with a revolver.

ViaCrucis said:

There are millions of guns in the US. The idea that each and every single one of them can be accounted for and removed is perhaps not, strictly speaking, impossible. It is, however, incredibly improbable.

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Hey if we are going to stop these killings, which we all want, and are going to say rhat the guns are the problem rhen its what we have to do.

ViaCrucis said:

Notice that I was speaking about mitigating gun violence. The idea that stricter gun laws will completely eradicate gun violence is, as far as I'm aware, a position nobody takes; and therefore arguing against it is merely striking at a straw man. Even a full on gun ban wouldn't eradicate gun violence.

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As we have seen recently banning certain guns doeant matter becauae those certain guns were not used.

And there most certainly are people who want to ban guns period. I've seen them on this board. Bolt action rifles can kill a lot of people and have in the past. Just removing some guns will only result in people using the guns that are available to kill a lot of people.

ViaCrucis said:

This isn't a zero sum game. It's not either completely eradicate all gun violence OR throw our hands up and do nothing.

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Didn't say it was. People are blaming the guns. Therefore the only logical answer is to get rid of the things that are killing people. The guns.

ViaCrucis said:

Making it harder to acquire a firearm, especially for those with a track record of mental health problems, wouldn't have prevented any gun deaths?

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Have you not been reading the posts on this subject? I have suggested that and have been told over and over again rhat is too hard to do. Are we going to require that everyone go through a psych evaluation? What kind of psych eval is the right one to determine that someone is not stable enough to have a gun? Who gets to decide that? There are a LOT of people with mental health problems who aren't dangerous. Why keep.a gun from them? On and on it goes with talking about how difficult and almost impossible that would be.

ViaCrucis said:

But what evidence do you have that stricter gun laws wouldn't have prevented any killings? How did you reach that conclusion? The data I would point to in favor of stricter gun laws reducing gun violence is the fact that this has worked in other countries.

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Yes in many of those countries you can't have a gun without a specified reason to have one. And often its not good enough. Are you going to pass a law requiring every gun owner in America to take a psych test, go through a licensing program with mandatory training? How often do they have to do it? Who's going to pay for the training?

I see there are just as many problems and obstacles to all of that as there is to just banning guns.

rjs330 said:

Okay, then I would agree, because colleges are typically not located in the inner cities.

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I see a basic misalignment here - I agree that there is more violence where there are more people while you insist that violence is found mostly in the "inner cities" but without proffering any evidence. I don't know, but some people use that term as a dog whistle to designate minorities - is that what you mean by "inner cities"?

rjs330 said:

But that doesn't change the fact that most gun violence happens in the inner cities.

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So you claim.

rjs330 said:

All I had to do was do an internet search. It was easy to find. There were some plenty of folks excusing the shooter.

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Oh, randos on the internet said something inflammatory? Color me convinced Wait, before it was "celebrating" the shooter - you've walked back that claim. This revised claim is closer to what I saw, which was people shrugging, not celebrating.

rjs330 said:

I don't believe so.

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Oh well, then - if you don't believe so then it must not be so!

rjs330 said:

Sport is not the same thing as real violence. There are subcultures that support real violence.

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Whoosh. Many sports are ritualized violence which America celebrates. Violence is real violence with real injuries and sometimes real death - your distinction is bogus. MMA, hockey and American football are real violent; ice skating and gymnastics are not.

rjs330 said:

I don't need to. I wrote it. You should think this over. There is a nuance you missed. Especially I equally when compared to your claim.

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I don't think so - you said in the same paragraph that people weren't waiting; people saw it coming. Explain how those who "saw it coming" weren't waiting for it to arrive.

rjs330 said:

Truth. The right isn't running around defending white supremacists.

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Certainly,not all of them, but we do have white supremacists, namely Stephen Miller, placed in the highest offices in the country while others have been elected to national offices.

rjs330 said:

Far too many on the left do run around and defend the violence on their side calling for understanding of tge murderers and offering excuses for their actions.

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Trying to find solutions is not defending the violence. Reasons are not excuses; understanding is not defending. Hopefully, we can find solutions to violence on all sides and not just point fingers.

rjs330 said:

My eyes are clear.

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Except for that rather large beam.

DaisyDay said:

I see a basic misalignment here - I agree that there is more violence where there are more people while you insist that violence is found mostly in the "inner cities" but without proffering any evidence. I don't know, but some people use that term as a dog whistle to designate minorities - is that what you mean by "inner cities"?

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I mean inner cities. I read some research on the subject and while "inner city" isn't the proper term the research referred to central city which apparently is the same thing.

Look we all know where most of the robberies, thefts and homicides occur. The inner cities. Chicago's 59 murders a couple of weekends ago didn't happen in the suburbs.

DaisyDay said:

Oh, randos on the internet said something inflammatory? Color me convinced Wait, before it was "celebrating" the shooter - you've walked back that claim. This revised claim is closer to what I saw, which was people shrugging, not celebrating.

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Rhere were people celebrating AND others excusing. Did you believe it HAD to be only one or the other?

DaisyDay said:

Oh well, then - if you don't believe so then it must not be so!

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Thats correct.

DaisyDay said:

Whoosh. Many sports are ritualized violence which America celebrates. Violence is real violence with real injuries and sometimes real death - your distinction is bogus. MMA, hockey and American football are real violent; ice skating and gymnastics are not.

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Sport is a participation between people who both agree to participate as a competition. Boxing for example.

There are subcultures in America that support real violence like shooting indiscriminately where innocent people get killed. Or those that attempt to burn down a police station with people inside or ambush people outside of an ICE facility. There are those in subcultures that think its acceptable to walk up to a person just walking down the street and punch them in the face knocking them out. Honestly, where have you

DaisyDay said:

Certainly,not all of them, but we do have white supremacists, namely Stephen Miller, placed in the highest offices in the country while others have been elected to national offices

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You aren't trotting out the Ole "if you want to deport illegals you're a white supremacist" trope again are you?

DaisyDay said:

Trying to find solutions is not defending the violence. Reasons are not excuses; understanding is not defending.

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Yes understanding is defending. When you say you understand why Charlie was shot or why the CEO was shot you are defending the heinous acts. There is no excuse for it, no reason for it and no understanding to be offered to the murderer. Anymore than anyone should be offering understanding for the dude that dressed as a cop and shot the Minnesota politicians. Or the guy that shot the two Jewish kids in DC.

Perhaps the solution to the violence is to not to defend or understand it but to condemn it without reservation.

DaisyDay said:

Except for that rather large beam.

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Looked again. Nope no beam here. I havent offered any reason or understanding for the violence. While others have.

essentialsaltes said:

‘Radicalized’ Evergreen High School shooter appeared to hold antisemitic, violent views in online accounts
Social media accounts that appear to be connected to shooter Desmond Holly are littered with references to mass shootings and antisemitic views, The Denver Post found.

The accounts also include references to Holocaust denial, and the name of one of the accounts appeared to end with a reference to a prominent white supremacist slogan.

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Colorado school teen shooter had an account on "violent gore" site months before shooting, ADL says​

According to the ADL report, several school shooters in the past year, including Holly, had been active on the same website, which the organization says is known for hosting content backing white supremacist ideas as well as material portraying graphic violence against both people and animals. People can navigate to the website, WatchPeopleDie, and access a forum where they can watch real images of beheadings, shootings and other violence. The site started on Reddit before being banned in March 2019.

"We're talking about thousands of people who are on these spaces," ADL Senior Vice President of Counter-Extremism and Intelligence, Oren Segal, told CBS News. "There's no friction to access — anybody can do it."

The website Holly used was also frequented, the ADL says, by other individuals who have carried out school shootings.

essentialsaltes said:

Colorado school teen shooter had an account on "violent gore" site months before shooting, ADL says​

According to the ADL report, several school shooters in the past year, including Holly, had been active on the same website, which the organization says is known for hosting content backing white supremacist ideas as well as material portraying graphic violence against both people and animals. People can navigate to the website, WatchPeopleDie, and access a forum where they can watch real images of beheadings, shootings and other violence. The site started on Reddit before being banned in March 2019.

"We're talking about thousands of people who are on these spaces," ADL Senior Vice President of Counter-Extremism and Intelligence, Oren Segal, told CBS News. "There's no friction to access — anybody can do it."

The website Holly used was also frequented, the ADL says, by other individuals who have carried out school shootings.

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And people want to say there is no evil and there is no devil. Extremely sick and twisted stuff.

rjs330 said:

And people want to say there is no evil and there is no devil. Extremely sick and twisted stuff.

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Strange response to information about a website.

rjs330 said:

And people want to say there is no evil and there is no devil. Extremely sick and twisted stuff.

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With man, what need is there for a “devil”?