Have you read any of the books of Enoch?

Zaha Torte said:

If so - what are your thoughts? If not - why not?

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No. What does it have to do with creation/evolution?

Zaha Torte said:

If so - what are your thoughts? If not - why not?

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Yup. A wild book. And irrelevant to evolution.

Zaha Torte said:

If so - what are your thoughts? If not - why not?

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Beloved in Christ,

Yes, I have read all the Books of Enoch, and I must tell you I was amazed. It opened my eyes in ways I didn’t expect. Of course, I want to say right at the start that our foundation is and always will be the Word of God, the Holy Scriptures. That is our anchor, and nothing outside of it can take that place.

That being said, when I read Enoch, I saw it as a historical and spiritual book that gives us a window into how early believers understood the unseen world, the reality of angels, the seriousness of sin, and the majesty of God’s judgment. Even though it is not part of our biblical canon, the Bible itself makes references that remind us Enoch’s writings existed and were known. For example, Jude 1:14–15 actually quotes from Enoch.

What struck me most was how the book highlights the holiness of God and the consequences of rebellion, whether by angels or mankind. It reminded me that spiritual warfare is real and that the choices we make carry eternal weight. Reading Enoch gave me a deeper reverence for the righteousness of God and a fresh appreciation for the grace we’ve been given through Christ Jesus.

Now, would I build doctrine solely from it? No. But do I believe God can use even these ancient writings to stir our hearts toward holiness and readiness for the return of Christ? Absolutely, yes. To me, reading Enoch was like being reminded that our faith is not just a Sunday religion. It is rooted in a long history of God moving, warning, and preparing His people.

So, if you’ve never read it, I’d say approach it prayerfully. Let it point you back to Scripture and back to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. At the very least, you’ll gain a greater sense of awe about how big God’s plan truly is.

What about you, dear friend? Have you found that reading Enoch increased your hunger for God’s Word or deepened your awareness of the spiritual battle around us?

Grace and peace to you, in the mighty name of Jesus Christ.

Zaha Torte said:

Have you read any of the books of Enoch?

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No.

Zaha Torte said:

If not - why not?

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From AI Overview:

Pseudepigrapha are religious texts from ancient Jewish and Christian traditions that are falsely attributed to well-known biblical figures, such as Enoch or Abraham, to lend them authority. These "false writings" were created to enhance their credibility and readership, often during the period between the Old and New Testaments (roughly 200 BC to 300 AD), but they are not considered part of the biblical canon by most religious traditions.

Im neutral at this point on supernatural demons being born on earth. And yes i have read all of 1 enoch and jubilees and jashur and seveal other texts such as 3 and 4 ezrah and macabees and the gospel of barnabass. Honestly i find little wrong with all of them. Christians these days who love paul's opinions more than Jesus are a bigger stumbling block to God.

I was aware somehow of these mysteries in early childhood and i spent much of 2004 to 2016 seeking all the information i could find that wasnt in the bible..on the internet and barely found anything. I did find a video of people using a stargate in peru. That was about it.

In 2020 or 21 iirc, an alleged christian woman told me she aborted her own human-demon hybrid. (It was spiritual only, not physical) She described this in detail and told me sometimes Jesus gives her peace about it..as in..sometimes.

Just recently someone found my comments on reddit talking about that and they told me.. i am correct in my concerns, the creation of demons has not ceased with the days of noah.

Now i and they, and that woman could be wrong. I would like all of that to be wrong. And not actually happening.

But never in my life has the truth turned out to be easy, or what i want. If you feel led to, read rebecca brown's book "he came to set the captives free".

So when 1 enoch describes the giants clawing their way out of the womb before coming to term...Is that really just a 2nd century rabbii's imagination? Personally i dont think so.

Michael heiser didnt comment on enoch directly to that regard that i know of, but if you take the 66 books as in errant, but also understand they were written not by moses but gen 6 was added to counter the Babylonian creation stories.. then yes something of that nature really did happen and God put gen 6 in the bible for a reason beyond merely spiritual corruption or to merely shape their religion

johansen said:

Im neutral at this point on supernatural demons being born on earth.

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The Holy Spirit is in charge during this dispensation and has Satan and his demons severly in check.

Zaha Torte said:

If so - what are your thoughts? If not - why not?

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(It's where my username comes from).
I read some fantasy novels in the 90s that used the Enoch mythology for a base, and it's an interesting read.

It's like people took Genesis and thought it could use a psychedelic, fantasy road trip. Enoch getting transformed into an angel, Noah having an unhuman appearance. Fallen angel's with diverse knowedges and powers. It's all very interesting.

I wonder if the undying Nephilim spirits from Enoch are inspired by the same mythology that became the Djinn in arabic myth?

A particularly unusual thing is that a literal reading implies that the Earth has a will of its own and grieves the death humans.

Zaha Torte said:

A very articulate and pleasant response.

The more I explore apocryphal writings the more convinced I am that our version of Genesis is incomplete and that early scribes -deliberately or not - removed how everything was centered in Christ even from the beginning.

I do not believe that Enoch's references to the "sons of God" was about angels - but mortal men - sons of Seth and Priesthood holders who forsook their oaths - broke the holy covenant - and debased themselves with the daughters of Cain and brought much wickedness to the world that eventually caused God to act in order to save Mankind by means of the Deluge.

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Beloved in Christ,

Thank you for your thoughtful and articulate response. You touched on something many believers wrestle with when they begin to explore writings like Enoch and compare them with Genesis. The reality is that the early Church and Jewish scribes had access to these traditions, and even though not everything was preserved in the canon, the echoes remain in Scripture.

When we talk about the “sons of God” in Genesis 6:2, the Hebrew phrase is בְּנֵי־הָאֱלֹהִים (Benei ha-Elohim). In the Old Testament, this expression is used several times. In Job 1:6, Job 2:1, and Job 38:7, the same Hebrew phrase clearly refers to angelic beings. Yet, throughout Church history, there have been two major interpretations:

1. The Angelic View – That “sons of God” were fallen angels who crossed divine boundaries, producing the Nephilim. This fits with Enoch’s description and with Jude 1:6–7 and 2 Peter 2:4–5, where fallen angels are said to have “left their proper dwelling” and are now kept under chains of darkness. The Greek word Jude uses for “left” is ἀπολιπόντας (apolipontas), meaning to abandon or forsake something that rightfully belonged to them.
2. The Sethite View – That the “sons of God” were godly men from the line of Seth, contrasted with the “daughters of men” from Cain’s line. This view stresses covenant-breaking, priestly unfaithfulness, and compromise with the world. The term “sons of God” in the New Testament (Greek: υἱοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ, huioi tou Theou) is often applied to God’s covenant people who walk in faith and obedience (Romans 8:14, Galatians 3:26).

Both perspectives have weight, and what matters most is what they reveal: humanity’s rebellion brought corruption so deep that only God’s intervention through the Flood could preserve His plan of redemption.

What encourages me is this: whether Genesis 6 is describing angels crossing boundaries or covenant men forsaking their holy calling, the truth is the same. The enemy tries to corrupt what God has set apart, but God always preserves a faithful remnant. Through Noah, a preacher of righteousness (2 Peter 2:5), God saved the human race. And even more, through Christ the true and greater Ark we are saved from the judgment to come.

I believe reading Enoch gives us a sense of the seriousness of sin, the reality of spiritual rebellion, and the magnitude of God’s holiness. But let us always remember what Jesus Himself said in John 5:39: “These are the Scriptures that testify about Me.” From Genesis to Revelation, and even in apocryphal echoes, it all points back to Christ, who was indeed present from the beginning (John 1:1–3, Colossians 1:16–17).

So, whether we lean toward the angelic view or the Sethite view, the call is the same for us today: to remain faithful as sons and daughters of God, to keep ourselves from corruption, and to shine as His witnesses in a darkening world.

Let me dive into deeply,

Old Testament References in Hebrew​

The phrase “sons of God” (בְּנֵי־הָאֱלֹהִים – Benei ha-Elohim) occurs in a few key places:

• Genesis 6:1–4 “When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose.”
• Job 1:6 “Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came among them.”
• Job 2:1 Same phrase, describing heavenly beings appearing before God.
• Job 38:7 “When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy.” (Clearly angels, present at creation).

From these Old Testament texts, the plain Hebrew usage suggests angelic beings in Job, and possibly in Genesis 6 as well.

New Testament Witness in Greek​

The Greek phrase υἱοὶ τοῦ θεοῦ (huioi tou Theou) is used with a different emphasis: it often applies to believers who are adopted into God’s family through faith.

• Matthew 5:9 “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”
• Romans 8:14 “For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.”
• Galatians 3:26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.”

So in the New Testament, “sons of God” is covenantal and spiritual, not angelic.

Supporting Context: Jude and 2 Peter​

Jude and Peter both connect the Flood story with fallen angels:

• Jude 1:6–7 “And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but abandoned their proper dwelling these He has kept in darkness, bound with everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.”
• 2 Peter 2:4–5 “For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment; if He did not spare the ancient world when He brought the Flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others…”

These passages seem to support the angelic interpretation of Genesis 6.

Conclusion from the Bible​

• In the Old Testament, “sons of God” usually refers to angels (Job) but is debated in Genesis 6.
• In the New Testament, the phrase refers to believers, adopted into God’s family through Christ.
• Both views (angelic and Sethite) exist, but the strongest biblical cross-references (Job, Jude, 2 Peter) lean toward angels being meant in Genesis 6.

So, Dear Brother in Christ,
Either way, the message is consistent: corruption entered the world deeply, God judged it by the Flood, and only through His grace and covenant can humanity be preserved.

Blessings
Pastor Waris

Shemjaza said:

(It's where my username comes from).
I read some fantasy novels in the 90s that used the Enoch mythology for a base, and it's an interesting read.

It's like people took Genesis and thought it could use a psychedelic, fantasy road trip. Enoch getting transformed into an angel, Noah having an unhuman appearance. Fallen angel's with diverse knowedges and powers. It's all very interesting.

I wonder if the undying Nephilim spirits from Enoch are inspired by the same mythology that became the Djinn in arabic myth?

A particularly unusual thing is that a literal reading implies that the Earth has a will of its own and grieves the death humans.

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What a rich, curious post. I love how your username ties into this whole conversation.

Thank you for sharing those memories from the 90s and the imaginative ways fiction has borrowed Enochic material. I’ll respond as a pastor and fellow-reader, conversationally and with some biblical anchors so your reflections land both imaginatively and theologically.


First, you’re right about how attractive Enochic material is to storytellers. The Book(s) of Enoch are vivid, cinematic, and full of strange, supernatural detail: angels who fall, secret knowledge, giant beings, journeys into heaven, all of which make terrific raw material for fantasy authors. That’s why many novels and games borrow Enochic motifs and then push them into psychedelic or mythic directions. Good fiction will take a kernel of ancient imagination and amplify it, and that’s exactly what you described, Genesis made into a cosmic, surreal road trip.


A few biblical touchpoints to help frame the imagination:

• Genesis 6:1–4 / Genesis 6:4 the Nephilim and the “sons of God” are where the ancient mystery begins.
• Numbers 13:33 later Old Testament reference to the Nephilim (Israel’s spies describing giants).
• Job 1:6; 2:1; 38:7 the phrase “sons of God” (Hebrew benei ha-Elohim) is used elsewhere in ways that clearly point to heavenly beings.
• Jude 1:6–7 and 2 Peter 2:4–5 New Testament passages that speak of angels who sinned and were judged. These verses are often read alongside Genesis 6 in support of the angelic interpretation.
• Romans 8:19–22 Paul personifies creation groaning. This is a biblical basis for saying creation itself shares in a kind of longing or grief until redemption is complete.

Now brief reflections on each of your points.

1. Enoch as fantasy fodder
   Completely understandable. Enochic images are cinematic. When novelists adapt them they often humanize or dramatize the characters (Enoch as angel, Noah as otherworldly) to serve drama. That’s artistic license, helpful for stirring the imagination, but fiction is not the same as Scripture. As readers and Christians, we can enjoy the stories while keeping our theological anchor in canonical Scripture.
2. Nephilim spirits and the Djinn question
   That’s a fascinating comparative thought. The djinn are part of Arabic and Islamic folklore and theology, powerful, unseen beings that can interact with humanity. The Nephilim and the “spirits” in Enoch are different traditions from Israelite/Jewish sources. There are interesting parallels across cultures (both imagine nonhuman intelligent beings that influence humans), but there is no clear biblical claim tying Nephilim to djinn. It’s a reasonable, curious hypothesis to explore as comparative mythology, but we should distinguish speculation from what Scripture actually teaches.
3. Earth grieving as a biblical idea
   Yes, that has a solid biblical root. Romans 8:19–22 (and other passages that speak of creation) portrays the created order as “groaning” and awaiting redemption. Scripture sometimes personifies creation to show that God’s saving work affects all things, not just human souls. So if a literal reading of certain apocryphal passages suggests the earth reacts with will or grief, that resonates with biblical themes of creation’s suffering and hope for restoration, but always interpret such images under the authority of canonical Scripture and the gospel.

The Good Point is,

• Enjoy the stories, but test them. Imaginative retellings can enlarge our sense of wonder, but we should measure doctrines and history against the Bible. Let fiction stimulate curiosity, not replace conviction.

• Hold wonder and caution together. Enochic and other ancient traditions can expand our theological questions (angels, spiritual realms, the origin of evil). Use them as prompts for prayer, Scripture study, and gospel-centered reflection.

• Keep Christ central. Whatever cosmic or mythic images you explore, Scripture repeatedly points us back to Christ as the center of God’s story (John 1; Colossians 1). Enochic echoes that some read in Jude are interesting, but our faith rests on Jesus and the confirmed Scriptures.

• If you’re curious, read comparatively. Read Genesis, Job, Jude, 2 Peter, Romans 8, and then Enoch with careful notes. Look for where the canonical text speaks clearly, and where other writings reflect cultural imagination.


Blessings

Zaha Torte said:

They all deal with the Creation and Man's action that preceded the Flood - such as corrupting animal lines.

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Yeah but they have nothing to do with evolution.