Death

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iarwain said:

What do you think about death? We've all heard things like "Death is part of life" or "Death is necessary to give life meaning" or even people talking about death being a beautiful experience. But from a scriptural standpoint, "The wages of sin is death". Is death really for our benefit? Or is it a punishment we all must face? Didn't death enter the world as a result of our sin? I'd like to hear some Christian perspectives.

I can see looking forward to the afterlife to be with our Creator. And certainly there is the relief and release from pain and suffering that death brings, and how it can be a blessing in that respect. But the process itself certainly doesn't seem pleasant. I've seen death in different aspects, sudden heart attacks, motorcycle accident, plus the slower lingering kind. It seems some suffer quite a bit while others don't.

The reason I brought this up was I recently saw a documentary on a man, Ethan Sisser, dying from a brain tumor, and he wanted his death documented on film, and that's what the documentary was about. And I saw a lot of people commenting on it being beautiful and all, and I just didn't see anything beautiful about it. I mean it was nice that he was brave and courageous about it, and humbly accepted his fate, and that he had loving people around him to comfort him. But I thought the process was nothing less than horrifying. Especially this one part near the end where it sounded like he was growling fiercely. Maybe he was unconscious by that point though, I don't know. I just kept thinking that you can't separate death from sin, and that's why it isn't beautiful.

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Physical death has nothing to do with spiritual death. You can not enter the Kingdom of God until you are dead. Death is a natural process just as the second death is a divine process. The beauty in this is overcoming the second death, which is what really matters in the end .
Blessings

iarwain said:

What do you think about death? We've all heard things like "Death is part of life" or "Death is necessary to give life meaning" or even people talking about death being a beautiful experience. But from a scriptural standpoint, "The wages of sin is death". Is death really for our benefit? Or is it a punishment we all must face? Didn't death enter the world as a result of our sin? I'd like to hear some Christian perspectives.

I can see looking forward to the afterlife to be with our Creator. And certainly there is the relief and release from pain and suffering that death brings, and how it can be a blessing in that respect. But the process itself certainly doesn't seem pleasant. I've seen death in different aspects, sudden heart attacks, motorcycle accident, plus the slower lingering kind. It seems some suffer quite a bit while others don't.

The reason I brought this up was I recently saw a documentary on a man, Ethan Sisser, dying from a brain tumor, and he wanted his death documented on film, and that's what the documentary was about. And I saw a lot of people commenting on it being beautiful and all, and I just didn't see anything beautiful about it. I mean it was nice that he was brave and courageous about it, and humbly accepted his fate, and that he had loving people around him to comfort him. But I thought the process was nothing less than horrifying. Especially this one part near the end where it sounded like he was growling fiercely. Maybe he was unconscious by that point though, I don't know. I just kept thinking that you can't separate death from sin, and that's why it isn't beautiful.

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Death is bad and something to be unsettled over.

It probably doesn't take a philosopher to delineate the ways in which any of us can affirm that it isn't "God's intended best for us"; but maybe an ancient theologian can describe how beauty will come out of death, not so much by ours but by that of Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 2:14-15

Death is scary. Even Jesus didn't want to die:

Luke 22:42

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42 - Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives

Our reward, however, is in Heaven.

Death isn't the end for those who believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins.

Strictly speaking to just dying on earth, I don't feel romantic about it and it can't be glamourized for me.

This is why I hold beliefs against other societal norms which seek to both romanticize and glamourize death but that's for a different day.

CerebralCherub said:

Death is scary. Even Jesus didn't want to die:

Luke 22:42

“Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done.” Luke 22:42 - Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives

Our reward, however, is in Heaven.

Death isn't the end for those who believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins.

Strictly speaking to just dying on earth, I don't feel romantic about it and it can't be glamourized for me.

This is why I hold beliefs against other societal norms which seek to both romanticize and glamourize death but that's for a different day.

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I don't believe that it was death itself that caused Jesus to say those words about the cup. Rather, all that was involved in His particular death - Him bearing the sins of His people, and thus being separated from His heavenly Father. He knew that death itself had no power over Him:

“15 “As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd. 17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 “No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”” (Joh 10:15-18 NKJV)

David Lamb said:

I don't believe that it was death itself that caused Jesus to say those words about the cup. Rather, all that was involved in His particular death - Him bearing the sins of His people, and thus being separated from His heavenly Father. He knew that death itself had no power over Him:

“15 “As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd. 17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 “No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”” (Joh 10:15-18 NKJV)

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Interesting. I don't know. I will reflect and come back. Thanks for your take on it to assist.

David Lamb said:

I don't believe that it was death itself that caused Jesus to say those words about the cup. Rather, all that was involved in His particular death - Him bearing the sins of His people, and thus being separated from His heavenly Father. He knew that death itself had no power over Him:

“15 “As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. 16 “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock [and] one shepherd. 17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 “No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”” (Joh 10:15-18 NKJV)

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Hi David,

I have researched this since your post and come across this which seems to agree with my initial thoughts about what Jesus said:

Luke 22:42 - Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives

Father,
This term reflects the intimate relationship between Jesus and God, emphasizing His divine sonship. In Jewish culture, addressing God as "Father" was not common, highlighting Jesus' unique position. This relationship is central to understanding the Trinity and the nature of Jesus' mission.
if You are willing,
This phrase acknowledges God's sovereignty and Jesus' submission to His divine plan. It reflects the tension between Jesus' human desire to avoid suffering and His commitment to fulfill God's will. This submission is a model for believers, illustrating the importance of aligning personal desires with God's purposes.

take this cup from Me.
The "cup" symbolizes the impending suffering and crucifixion Jesus is about to endure. In the Old Testament, the cup often represents God's wrath and judgment (e.g., Psalm 75:8, Isaiah 51:17). Jesus' request to have the cup removed underscores His awareness of the physical and spiritual agony He is about to face, fulfilling prophecies such as Isaiah 53.

Yet not My will,
This phrase highlights the dual nature of Christ, fully human and fully divine. Jesus expresses a natural human desire to avoid pain, yet He prioritizes divine will over personal preference. This submission is a key aspect of His role as the obedient Son, contrasting with Adam's disobedience in the Garden of Eden.

but Yours be done.
This ultimate submission to God's will is central to the Christian understanding of obedience and sacrifice. It reflects Jesus' role as the perfect servant, fulfilling prophecies like Isaiah 42:1. This act of surrender is pivotal in the narrative of salvation, demonstrating the path of true discipleship and trust in God's plan.

I find it interesting that 2 people are reading 1 verse and there are 2 different views but mine remains the same. What about yours? Do you have anywhere I can refer to with a view similar to yours?

CerebralCherub said:

Hi David,

I have researched this since your post and come across this which seems to agree with my initial thoughts about what Jesus said:

Luke 22:42 - Jesus Prays on the Mount of Olives

Study Bible

Book ◦ Chapter

Father,
This term reflects the intimate relationship between Jesus and God, emphasizing His divine sonship. In Jewish culture, addressing God as "Father" was not common, highlighting Jesus' unique position. This relationship is central to understanding the Trinity and the nature of Jesus' mission.
if You are willing,
This phrase acknowledges God's sovereignty and Jesus' submission to His divine plan. It reflects the tension between Jesus' human desire to avoid suffering and His commitment to fulfill God's will. This submission is a model for believers, illustrating the importance of aligning personal desires with God's purposes.

take this cup from Me.
The "cup" symbolizes the impending suffering and crucifixion Jesus is about to endure. In the Old Testament, the cup often represents God's wrath and judgment (e.g., Psalm 75:8, Isaiah 51:17). Jesus' request to have the cup removed underscores His awareness of the physical and spiritual agony He is about to face, fulfilling prophecies such as Isaiah 53.

Yet not My will,
This phrase highlights the dual nature of Christ, fully human and fully divine. Jesus expresses a natural human desire to avoid pain, yet He prioritizes divine will over personal preference. This submission is a key aspect of His role as the obedient Son, contrasting with Adam's disobedience in the Garden of Eden.

but Yours be done.
This ultimate submission to God's will is central to the Christian understanding of obedience and sacrifice. It reflects Jesus' role as the perfect servant, fulfilling prophecies like Isaiah 42:1. This act of surrender is pivotal in the narrative of salvation, demonstrating the path of true discipleship and trust in God's plan.

I find it interesting that 2 people are reading 1 verse and there are 2 different views but mine remains the same. What about yours? Do you have anywhere I can refer to with a view similar to yours?

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I think we are agreed. It wasn't merely death that Jesus was praying to His Father about, but all that His particular death involved - the betrayal, the sham trials before Pilate and the High Priest, the denial by Peter, the scourging, the mockery, but most of all, the enormous weight of the sin of His people.

David Lamb said:

I think we are agreed. It wasn't merely death that Jesus was praying to His Father about, but all that His particular death involved - the betrayal, the sham trials before Pilate and the High Priest, the denial by Peter, the scourging, the mockery, but most of all, the enormous weight of the sin of His people.

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I can't even imagine the pain of it and it never gets easier no matter how many times I read about it! It's shocking.

CerebralCherub said:

I can't even imagine the pain of it and it never gets easier no matter how many times I read about it! It's shocking.

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I don't think any of us can. And to think that all that happened to Jesus Christ, Who had come to earth from the glorious perfection of heaven, indicates something of how horrific it must have been for Him.

iarwain said:

What do you think about death? We've all heard things like "Death is part of life" or "Death is necessary to give life meaning" or even people talking about death being a beautiful experience. But from a scriptural standpoint, "The wages of sin is death". Is death really for our benefit? Or is it a punishment we all must face? Didn't death enter the world as a result of our sin? I'd like to hear some Christian perspectives.

I can see looking forward to the afterlife to be with our Creator. And certainly there is the relief and release from pain and suffering that death brings, and how it can be a blessing in that respect. But the process itself certainly doesn't seem pleasant. I've seen death in different aspects, sudden heart attacks, motorcycle accident, plus the slower lingering kind. It seems some suffer quite a bit while others don't.

The reason I brought this up was I recently saw a documentary on a man, Ethan Sisser, dying from a brain tumor, and he wanted his death documented on film, and that's what the documentary was about. And I saw a lot of people commenting on it being beautiful and all, and I just didn't see anything beautiful about it. I mean it was nice that he was brave and courageous about it, and humbly accepted his fate, and that he had loving people around him to comfort him. But I thought the process was nothing less than horrifying. Especially this one part near the end where it sounded like he was growling fiercely. Maybe he was unconscious by that point though, I don't know. I just kept thinking that you can't separate death from sin, and that's why it isn't beautiful.

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Let's see what Solomon has to say about this subject. Ecclesiastes 9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.

Take a look at what Solomon said. This event happened to us all while we are under the sun. Why did he say under the sun? We'll find this out later. Pay close attention here. The heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live. While they live. Then what happens after that? They go to the dead.

Ecclesiastes 9:4For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.

While you are still alive there is still hope. What hope is this? Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life: This is what you hope for while you are still alive. Notice something else, Solomon said. For a living dog is better than a dead lion. Why is that? The dog is alive and the lion is dust. Can a dead lion be of any use? No! Solomon said a mouth full, look at the next verse.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

For the living know not any thing, neither any more reward. Why? Once you're dead there is no more hope. If you went to the grave in Christ, he will awake you in the first resurrection, and you will live and reign on the earth with him and the saints. If you did not die in Christ he will wake you in the second resurrection and you will be judged according to your works. If you are dead do you have any memory? What did Solomon say? "For the memory of them is forgotten". Now we know you have no more memory while you are in the grave. If you did something wrong to a person and they're dead, you don't have to worry, they won't come and haunt your house.

Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

This verse speaks for itself. To put it short you don't remember anything while you are in the grave.

Let's see if David and Solomon are on the same page.

Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help.

4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.

"Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help". Why did David make this statement in verse 3? No man can give you eternal life; neither does any man have a lake of fire to put you in. Whom shall you put all your trust? Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. How do you lean on the Lord's understanding and not your own? By reading the book without putting a twist on it and taking every word for what it says, you will never go wrong. Why should you do that? Pay close attention. Isaiah 55:8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. If his thoughts are higher than ours, why should anyone try to interpret His Word. Seems like David and Solomon are on the same page. Look at verse 4. His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish. His thoughts perish when he gives up his last breath. Man is made of 2 elements dust, and breath, no more, no less. Genesis 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. When David said he gives up the ghost he simply means his breath.

iarwain said:

What do you think about death? We've all heard things like "Death is part of life" or "Death is necessary to give life meaning" or even people talking about death being a beautiful experience. But from a scriptural standpoint, "The wages of sin is death". Is death really for our benefit? Or is it a punishment we all must face? Didn't death enter the world as a result of our sin? I'd like to hear some Christian perspectives.

I can see looking forward to the afterlife to be with our Creator. And certainly there is the relief and release from pain and suffering that death brings, and how it can be a blessing in that respect. But the process itself certainly doesn't seem pleasant. I've seen death in different aspects, sudden heart attacks, motorcycle accident, plus the slower lingering kind. It seems some suffer quite a bit while others don't.

The reason I brought this up was I recently saw a documentary on a man, Ethan Sisser, dying from a brain tumor, and he wanted his death documented on film, and that's what the documentary was about. And I saw a lot of people commenting on it being beautiful and all, and I just didn't see anything beautiful about it. I mean it was nice that he was brave and courageous about it, and humbly accepted his fate, and that he had loving people around him to comfort him. But I thought the process was nothing less than horrifying. Especially this one part near the end where it sounded like he was growling fiercely. Maybe he was unconscious by that point though, I don't know. I just kept thinking that you can't separate death from sin, and that's why it isn't beautiful.

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I work in care. I have seen deaths, and the aftermath. Nurses and hospice workers say that there are two groups, those that go peacefully and the atmosphere seems lighter even before they go, and everything just glides smoothly and they are gone some even smile. Many say they are greeted by loved ones and angels. There is peace all over. Then there is the opposite. with negative atmosphere and where they suffer in pain or scream or even talk about seeing hell or demons. they can see dark shadow figures or mist. They say as good as every nurse have stories like this.
I recall a lady that had pain and she asked me to sit with her which we did and we talked about God, and I asked if she beleived she said yes, I said then you have nothing to worry about it will be like leaving a blanket and you are met with your loved ones and Jesus. It comfort her and when she passed she passed easily and she said thank you many times and she even smiled when she left. It was nice to do something for someone.
we know we are going to be with Jesus, so no it is part of life and he will meet us. it really is a body suit, you see that clearly the body is dead material.