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Question for my Catholic brothers and sisters

The Liturgist

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(If it's ok to ask)

You are an Assembly of God's pastor, correct? If I recall correctly, and understand correctly, Pentecostalism descended from Methodism, which had an emphasis on personal holiness and sanctification.

Does Holiness descend from Wesleyan Churches?

No drinking at all? Not even social drinking? What about Holy Communion?

Anyway, are you required to say certain prayers everyday or do some sort of service work daily?

I think this is an important distinction, priests (as well as nuns, monks, deacons, bishops, the Pope himself) are required to pray the Divine Office (AKA Liturgy of the Hours AKA The Hours) daily. Nuns/Monks often say it in community with others.

Essentially, celibacy allows priests (and nuns and monks) to experience their lover in a broader way by being fully committed to God's people. If I am making any sense?

And yes, married priests do exist, but they are the exception.

ALSO, it's DISCIPLINE priests aren't married, NOT doctrine, so it can indeed change.

Interestingly John Wesley, who was not only an Anglican priest but was ordained a bishop by the visiting Greek Orthodox hierarch Erasmus of Arcadia in 1763, intended for Methodists to continue to use the Book of Common Prayer (which was his favorite liturgy), partake of the Eucharist at least once a week, and fast on Wednesdays and Fridays, and on those days also pray the Litany, ideally in church as a public service (the Litany being one of the three traditional parts of the Anglican Divine Office along with Morning Prayer and Evensong). Fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays is the norm in the Orthodox Church but the Wednesday fast had disappeared from the Western church except in some monasteries. Also his Sunday Service Book contained Morning Prayer and Evensong, indicating they should be used - which is interesting because the main Sunday service was supposed to be Holy Communion.

Thus, John Wesley was a bishop in apostolic succession, who believed in episcopal polity, the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos and her status as Mother of God, and was probably connected via Erasmus of Arcadia to the Kollyvades Brothers, a Greek Orthodox group active in the 18th century who were along with Wesley the first to try to revive high frequency communion among the laity.

Only a few Methodist churches follow Wesley’s plan or an approximation of them, one being Epworth Chapel on the Green in Boise, Idaho.

I venerate St. John Wesley and have an icon of him with his brother St. Charles Wesley, as I regard his teachings on Entire Sanctification to be the clearest translation of the ancient Patristic doctrine of theosis into the English language.
 
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The Liturgist

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Indeed. Many priests are very busy due to the shortage of priests. I know of one priest that is in charge of seven, yes seven, parishes.

Many parishes have to accommodate and no longer have weekly Mass or their Church was turned into a chapel- where only special Masses can be held, or it can only be held for a wedding or funeral.

Unfortunately that happened in the Archdiocese where I grew up. BUT things are looking hopeful, we are getting more seminarians and men ordained to the priesthood.

My own current diocese where I live is blessed with many vocations to both the priesthood and religious life.

One nice thing about chapels is they are exempt from many restricitons of Traditiones Custodes. Thus the beautiful original St. Mary Magdalene’s Church in Camarillo, CA, in which the Camarillo family is buried in the crypt, which features lovely white marble reredos, has continued to celebrate the Latin Mass without interruption.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Indeed. Many priests are very busy due to the shortage of priests. I know of one priest that is in charge of seven, yes seven, parishes.

Many parishes have to accommodate and no longer have weekly Mass or their Church was turned into a chapel- where only special Masses can be held, or it can only be held for a wedding or funeral.

Unfortunately that happened in the Archdiocese where I grew up. BUT things are looking hopeful, we are getting more seminarians and men ordained to the priesthood.

My own current diocese where I live is blessed with many vocations to both the priesthood and religious life.
What are the factors causing the shortage?

A cursory search on Grok showed the top three to be:

The shortage of men entering the priesthood in the Roman Catholic Church, often referred to as a vocations crisis or priest shortage, has been attributed to a variety of interconnected factors based on analyses from Church sources, sociological studies, media reports, and public discussions. These factors span theological, cultural, social, and structural issues. Below is a comprehensive list of the primary contributors, drawn from diverse perspectives including Catholic publications, secular media, academic insights, and recent online discourse. I've grouped them thematically for clarity, with supporting evidence from sources.

1. Celibacy Requirement

  • The mandatory celibacy rule for Latin Rite priests is frequently cited as a major deterrent, as it prevents marriage and family life, which many men desire in modern society. This has historically reduced the pool of heterosexual candidates, with some arguing it attracts individuals seeking to suppress personal impulses rather than those fully committed to the vocation.
  • Relatedly, the Church's prohibition on gay marriage combined with celibacy has been noted to draw disproportionate numbers of gay men to the priesthood in the past, though scandals have reduced this trend.

2. Clergy Abuse Scandals and Loss of Prestige

  • High-profile sex abuse scandals have eroded trust in the institution, damaged the priesthood's social capital, and created a negative perception that deters potential candidates. This includes fears of reputational risk and association with corruption.
  • The scandals have also led to fewer same-sex attracted men entering seminaries, as exposure of abuse has heightened scrutiny.

3. Secularization and Cultural Shifts

  • Broader societal changes, including emphasis on science over faith, evolving views on sexuality, materialism, and modern distractions (e.g., pursuit of pleasure, money, or self-focused lifestyles), make religious vocations less appealing. Declining Mass attendance and family faith practice further reduce the pool of devout young men.
  • Smaller family sizes mean fewer sons overall, and families are less likely to encourage priesthood as a path.
  • Dissent on Church teachings (e.g., on birth control, homosexuality, women's roles) alienates potential vocations and contributes to overall disaffiliation.
 
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Always in His Presence

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(If it's ok to ask)
You betcha it is ok to ask - feel free to ask me anything anytime.
You are an Assembly of God's pastor, correct? If I recall correctly, and understand correctly, Pentecostalism descended from Methodism, which had an emphasis on personal holiness and sanctification.
Pentecostalism did not descend from Methodist The Assemblies of God traces our roots back to Azuza Street revival and before that. From a doctrinal position it started on the Day of Pentecost (hence Pentecostal). There is a commonality with John Wesley and his early works, but that is for another thread.
Does Holiness descend from Wesleyan Churches?
Not a clue - But Holiness is part and parcel of our Sacerdotal office and pledge
No drinking at all? Not even social drinking? What about Holy Communion?
My oath is no drugs, no tobacco, no alcohol period. For Holy Communion we use the fruit of the grape (juice)
Anyway, are you required to say certain prayers everyday or do some sort of service work daily?
I am not required to pray everyday, but I cannot picture a day without praying. I typically pray about four to six times a day. Sometimes more, sometimes less. My typical day starts at 5:30am and ends when I am finished - mot times between 7pm and 9pm. My off day is Thursday, though most times that changes with need. I spend time in sermon preparation for Sunday's and Wednesdays, I study for my international work, visit the sick, do hospital visitations and oversee the projects of the church. When I get a free moment I work on my third book. (already published two).
I think this is an important distinction, priests (as well as nuns, monks, deacons, bishops, the Pope himself) are required to pray the Divine Office (AKA Liturgy of the Hours AKA The Hours) daily. Nuns/Monks often say it in community with others.
We are not liturgical
Essentially, celibacy allows priests (and nuns and monks) to experience their lover in a broader way by being fully committed to God's people. If I am making any sense?
IMHO - so does being married - the difference it that I do it most time with my wife. We pray, minister to others 24/7 as needed. Just last week my wife drove to another town and prayed with a woman who needed comfort. Those are people I cannot meet privately with, but she can. My wife heads our woman' ministry and worship ministry.

She is my help meet - she is an extension of my flesh and my ministry. Like in the Garden - God said plainly, it is not good for man to be alone - them formed Eve from his flesh - after that, Adam's ministry (service to God) started.
And yes, married priests do exist, but they are the exception.
Thank you
ALSO, it's DISCIPLINE priests aren't married, NOT doctrine, so it can indeed change.
Perhaps if it did - the church wouldn't be in such a great need? Possible?
 
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LizaMarie

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Interestingly John Wesley, who was not only an Anglican priest but was ordained a bishop by the visiting Greek Orthodox hierarch Erasmus of Arcadia in 1763, intended for Methodists to continue to use the Book of Common Prayer (which was his favorite liturgy), partake of the Eucharist at least once a week, and fast on Wednesdays and Fridays, and on those days also pray the Litany, ideally in church as a public service (the Litany being one of the three traditional parts of the Anglican Divine Office along with Morning Prayer and Evensong). Fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays is the norm in the Orthodox Church but the Wednesday fast had disappeared from the Western church except in some monasteries. Also his Sunday Service Book contained Morning Prayer and Evensong, indicating they should be used - which is interesting because the main Sunday service was supposed to be Holy Communion.

Thus, John Wesley was a bishop in apostolic succession, who believed in episcopal polity, the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos and her status as Mother of God, and was probably connected via Erasmus of Arcadia to the Kollyvades Brothers, a Greek Orthodox group active in the 18th century who were along with Wesley the first to try to revive high frequency communion among the laity.

Only a few Methodist churches follow Wesley’s plan or an approximation of them, one being Epworth Chapel on the Green in Boise, Idaho.

I venerate St. John Wesley and have an icon of him with his brother St. Charles Wesley, as I regard his teachings on Entire Sanctification to be the clearest translation of the ancient Patristic doctrine of theosis into the English language.
Historical fact also the Wesley brothers were 2 of 19 children born to Susanah Wesley as well, I think two of the later ones. Just a tidbit! If she had stopped having children they wouldn't have been born.
 
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The Liturgist

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Historical fact also the Wesley brothers were 2 of 19 children born to Susanah Wesley as well, I think two of the later ones. Just a tidbit! If she had stopped having children they wouldn't have been born.

Indeed. We should also note that at the time women had more children than at the present in large part because so many died early in childhood. Bach if I recall had around 16 children.

This had to be so difficult, because of the trauma caused to parents when even one child is lost; imagine having to have 16 children or 19 children with the knowledge that maybe a third of them would make it to adulthood or late childhood.
 
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RileyG

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You betcha it is ok to ask - feel free to ask me anything anytime.

Pentecostalism did not descend from Methodist The Assemblies of God traces our roots back to Azuza Street revival and before that. From a doctrinal position it started on the Day of Pentecost (hence Pentecostal). There is a commonality with John Wesley and his early works, but that is for another thread.

Not a clue - But Holiness is part and parcel of our Sacerdotal office and pledge

My oath is no drugs, no tobacco, no alcohol period. For Holy Communion we use the fruit of the grape (juice)

I am not required to pray everyday, but I cannot picture a day without praying. I typically pray about four to six times a day. Sometimes more, sometimes less. My typical day starts at 5:30am and ends when I am finished - mot times between 7pm and 9pm. My off day is Thursday, though most times that changes with need. I spend time in sermon preparation for Sunday's and Wednesdays, I study for my international work, visit the sick, do hospital visitations and oversee the projects of the church. When I get a free moment I work on my third book. (already published two).

We are not liturgical

IMHO - so does being married - the difference it that I do it most time with my wife. We pray, minister to others 24/7 as needed. Just last week my wife drove to another town and prayed with a woman who needed comfort. Those are people I cannot meet privately with, but she can. My wife heads our woman' ministry and worship ministry.

She is my help meet - she is an extension of my flesh and my ministry. Like in the Garden - God said plainly, it is not good for man to be alone - them formed Eve from his flesh - after that, Adam's ministry (service to God) started.

Thank you

Perhaps if it did - the church wouldn't be in such a great need? Possible?
Thanks for the response! Very informative!

Regarding your last question, I’m not sure.
 
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RileyG

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What are the factors causing the shortage?

A cursory search on Grok showed the top three to be:

The shortage of men entering the priesthood in the Roman Catholic Church, often referred to as a vocations crisis or priest shortage, has been attributed to a variety of interconnected factors based on analyses from Church sources, sociological studies, media reports, and public discussions. These factors span theological, cultural, social, and structural issues. Below is a comprehensive list of the primary contributors, drawn from diverse perspectives including Catholic publications, secular media, academic insights, and recent online discourse. I've grouped them thematically for clarity, with supporting evidence from sources.

1. Celibacy Requirement

  • The mandatory celibacy rule for Latin Rite priests is frequently cited as a major deterrent, as it prevents marriage and family life, which many men desire in modern society. This has historically reduced the pool of heterosexual candidates, with some arguing it attracts individuals seeking to suppress personal impulses rather than those fully committed to the vocation.
  • Relatedly, the Church's prohibition on gay marriage combined with celibacy has been noted to draw disproportionate numbers of gay men to the priesthood in the past, though scandals have reduced this trend.

2. Clergy Abuse Scandals and Loss of Prestige

  • High-profile sex abuse scandals have eroded trust in the institution, damaged the priesthood's social capital, and created a negative perception that deters potential candidates. This includes fears of reputational risk and association with corruption.
  • The scandals have also led to fewer same-sex attracted men entering seminaries, as exposure of abuse has heightened scrutiny.

3. Secularization and Cultural Shifts

  • Broader societal changes, including emphasis on science over faith, evolving views on sexuality, materialism, and modern distractions (e.g., pursuit of pleasure, money, or self-focused lifestyles), make religious vocations less appealing. Declining Mass attendance and family faith practice further reduce the pool of devout young men.
  • Smaller family sizes mean fewer sons overall, and families are less likely to encourage priesthood as a path.
  • Dissent on Church teachings (e.g., on birth control, homosexuality, women's roles) alienates potential vocations and contributes to overall disaffiliation.
I think it’s just a sign of the times. In certain parts of the world, such as Africa and Asia, vocations are booming.

Beyond that, I’m not sure.
 
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RileyG

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Interestingly John Wesley, who was not only an Anglican priest but was ordained a bishop by the visiting Greek Orthodox hierarch Erasmus of Arcadia in 1763, intended for Methodists to continue to use the Book of Common Prayer (which was his favorite liturgy), partake of the Eucharist at least once a week, and fast on Wednesdays and Fridays, and on those days also pray the Litany, ideally in church as a public service (the Litany being one of the three traditional parts of the Anglican Divine Office along with Morning Prayer and Evensong). Fasting on Wednesdays and Fridays is the norm in the Orthodox Church but the Wednesday fast had disappeared from the Western church except in some monasteries. Also his Sunday Service Book contained Morning Prayer and Evensong, indicating they should be used - which is interesting because the main Sunday service was supposed to be Holy Communion.

Thus, John Wesley was a bishop in apostolic succession, who believed in episcopal polity, the perpetual virginity of the Theotokos and her status as Mother of God, and was probably connected via Erasmus of Arcadia to the Kollyvades Brothers, a Greek Orthodox group active in the 18th century who were along with Wesley the first to try to revive high frequency communion among the laity.

Only a few Methodist churches follow Wesley’s plan or an approximation of them, one being Epworth Chapel on the Green in Boise, Idaho.

I venerate St. John Wesley and have an icon of him with his brother St. Charles Wesley, as I regard his teachings on Entire Sanctification to be the clearest translation of the ancient Patristic doctrine of theosis into the English language.
Very interesting! I actually have his modified book of common prayer!
 
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Always in His Presence

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I think it’s just a sign of the times. In certain parts of the world, such as Africa and Asia, vocations are booming.

Beyond that, I’m not sure.
It is on a much higher scale than other denominations - should you ask why?
 
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It is on a much higher scale than other denominations - should you ask why?
I really don’t know. It seems like many mainline Protestant churches are also having issues with vocations and have to share ministers.

Yes. Required celibacy might be an issue for lower numbers, but many see it as a gift.
 
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The Liturgist

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I really don’t know. It seems like many mainline Protestant churches are also having issues with vocations and have to share ministers.

Yes. Required celibacy might be an issue for lower numbers, but many see it as a gift.

Interestingly despite Traditiones Custodes, the FSSP and ICKSP have no shortage of vocations (neither does the SSPX for that matter). I think a lot of men who would otherwise be comfortable with dedicating their life to Christ and taking a vow of celibacy are uncomfortable with the more liberal dioceses, and also with a lack of liturgical beauty, and the result is they’re joining the TLM part of the Catholic Church because they know that they’ll never be celebrating Sunday mass to an empty church (since those places where the TLM is still available are even more overcrowded now than they were before Traditiones Custodes) or being put in a compromising position regarding their commitment to traditional Roman Catholic moral values.
 
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Interestingly despite Traditiones Custodes, the FSSP and ICKSP have no shortage of vocations (neither does the SSPX for that matter). I think a lot of men who would otherwise be comfortable with dedicating their life to Christ and taking a vow of celibacy are uncomfortable with the more liberal dioceses, and also with a lack of liturgical beauty, and the result is they’re joining the TLM part of the Catholic Church because they know that they’ll never be celebrating Sunday mass to an empty church (since those places where the TLM is still available are even more overcrowded now than they were before Traditiones Custodes) or being put in a compromising position regarding their commitment to traditional Roman Catholic moral values.
Tradition is the future, in my opinion.
 
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The Liturgist

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Tradition is the future, in my opinion.

Amen. I think its why the Orthodox Church is now growing faster than even the Pentecostals; we have parishes seeing annual membership increases of 18%. We now have a clergy shortage due to all of the converts combined with the high birth rate among most Orthodox populations except for the Greeks (the birth rate among the Oriental Orthodox by the way is … beautiful).
 
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Amen. I think its why the Orthodox Church is now growing faster than even the Pentecostals; we have parishes seeing annual membership increases of 18%. We now have a clergy shortage due to all of the converts combined with the high birth rate among most Orthodox populations except for the Greeks (the birth rate among the Oriental Orthodox by the way is … beautiful).
Glory to God in all things!
 
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Dan Perez

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Matt 8:14 Now when Jesus had come into Peter’s house, He saw his wife’s mother lying sick with a fever.

It is obvious from Holy Scripture that Peter was married.

1. Why doesn’t the leadership allow priests to follow Peter in marriage?
And you my thanks to you. for finding. that verse , and in. 1 Tim 4:1-3 FORBIDDING to marry to abstain from foods. , which

things God. created for participation with giving of thanks by the believers , even. ones. having ACCURATE KNOWLEDGE

of the truth .

dan p
 
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