• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Is an Apology Necessary?

Servus

<><
Site Supporter
Oct 2, 2020
28,557
15,472
Washington
✟994,503.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Failure has not been ruled out, ".........if you did everything right but failed."

How can that be?

Well, you cannot please everyone.
Well I said: You can be sorry things didn't turn out right.

And he replied: That would not be an apology, though. That would be more accurately considered sympathy.

So I took that as ruling out the failure part of apology.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Robban
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Feel'n the Burn of Philosophy!
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
24,966
11,712
Space Mountain!
✟1,381,193.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
"Sometimes you can do everything right...and still fail." -- Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek: The Next Generation)

If you did everything right and still failed...do you own anyone an apology, even if your failure caused them injury?

Is there a clear and real-world example in which this problem manifests itself? For the life of me, I can't think of one.

Philosophically, the crux of the problem here is conceptual in nature and hinges on whose concept of "doing it right" is acting as the authoritative moral metric by which we are evaluating the said situation.
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
42,269
22,843
US
✟1,744,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Is there a clear and real-world example in which this problem manifests itself? For the life of me, I can't think of one.

Philosophically, the crux of the problem here is conceptual in nature and hinges on whose concept of "doing it right" is acting as the authoritative moral metric by which we are evaluating the said situation.
When the answer to the questions "What could I have done better in the situation?" or "What did I do wrong in the situation?" is "Nothing."

Is an apology owed when nothing wrong was done?
 
Upvote 0

2PhiloVoid

Feel'n the Burn of Philosophy!
Site Supporter
Oct 28, 2006
24,966
11,712
Space Mountain!
✟1,381,193.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
When the answer to the questions "What could I have done better in the situation?" or "What did I do wrong in the situation?" is "Nothing."

Is an apology owed when nothing wrong was done?

No, an apology is not owed in such a case. Is there someone "out there" who is demanding that we think otherwise?
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
42,269
22,843
US
✟1,744,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Failure has not been ruled out, ".........if you did everything right but failed."

How can that be?

Well, you cannot please everyone.
@ozso gave a good example. Your own actions were perfectly correct but were overcome anyway.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Robban
Upvote 0

linux.poet

out of love attunement
Christian Forums Staff
Purple Team - Moderator
Angels Team
CF Senior Ambassador
Site Supporter
Apr 25, 2022
5,839
2,416
Poway
✟395,349.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
In Relationship
Politics
US-Republican
Is there a clear and real-world example in which this problem manifests itself?
The scenario that comes to mind is when your parent pays for your college, and you go. You get some awful illness, like mono or similar, and you failed your college semester. You did everything right: got a doctor’s note, medical withdrawal from the semester, etc. Do you need to apologize to your parent?

* * *

What is strange about this scenario is that it doesn’t rule out bad actions by the person you would be apologizing to. That’s the rub for me. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World, but I don’t care what Skillet says, we’re not.

Let’s change up the scenario above. Let’s say my parent has emotionally abused me all my life and given me a case of CPTSD. They pay for my college, and I go. I fail out of college due to CPTSD symptoms. I did everything right: sought psychological help, got a medical withdrawal from the semester, established and used Christian my support network, used tools such as journaling and body exercises and tea to manage the symptoms, and I still failed. Do I need to apologize to my parent?

Answer: No. My parent might be out $13K for that botched semester, but it was their own fault. They deserve what they got. :p

Let’s take ozso’s scenario. What if the passenger who T-boned your car wasn’t a random bad driver, but the passengers’ crazy mad nephew who is infuriated because your passenger stole 13K from them? Do you really owe your passenger an apology?

Answer: No. Frankly your passenger owes you a new car!

With this in mind, I’m just going with no here. We’re human beings, with finite resources, and we are not responsible for what God does or other people’s sin.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: 2PhiloVoid
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
42,269
22,843
US
✟1,744,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The scenario that comes to mind is when your parent pays for your college, and you go. You get some awful illness, like mono or similar, and you failed your college semester. You did everything right: got a doctor’s note, medical withdrawal from the semester, etc. Do you need to apologize to your parent?

* * *

What is strange about this scenario is that it doesn’t rule out bad actions by the person you would be apologizing to. That’s the rub for me. Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World, but I don’t care what Skillet says, we’re not.

Let’s change up the scenario above. Let’s say my parent has emotionally abused me all my life and given me a case of CPTSD. They pay for my college, and I go. I fail out of college due to CPTSD symptoms. I did everything right: sought psychological help, got a medical withdrawal from the semester, established and used Christian my support network, used tools such as journaling and body exercises and tea to manage the symptoms, and I still failed. Do I need to apologize to my parent?

Answer: No. My parent might be out $13K for that botched semester, but it was their own fault. They deserve what they got. :p

Let’s take ozso’s scenario. What if the passenger who T-boned your car wasn’t a random bad driver, but the passengers’ crazy mad nephew who is infuriated because your passenger stole 13K from them? Do you really owe your passenger an apology?

Answer: No. Frankly your passenger owes you a new car!

With this in mind, I’m just going with no here. We’re human beings, with finite resources, and we are not responsible for what God does or other people’s sin.
I think this gets to the point.

An apology presumes responsibility and that there was a requirement for accountability.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
35,874
4,527
On the bus to Heaven
✟106,821.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
It might very well hurt someone if it makes the wrong person appear to be responsible for the harm done.
A friend has cancer and doesn’t feel good. I go see him and say “I’m sorry you don’t feel good today”. Did I apologize for causing his pain or just to show empathy?

As a deacon I visit many people that have problems and apologize as a sign of empathy not fault. All understand the empathy.

Do you think showing empathy this way is way is wrong?
 
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
42,269
22,843
US
✟1,744,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
A friend has cancer and doesn’t feel good. I go see him and say “I’m sorry you don’t feel good today”. Did I apologize for causing his pain or just to show empathy?
You didn't apologize at all. Not every "I'm sorry" is an apology.

The same phrase, “I’m sorry,” carries two quite different meanings depending on intent and context:

  1. Acknowledging Wrong (Apology)
    • Here “I’m sorry” means accepting responsibility for something you did (or failed to do) that hurt or inconvenienced another person.
    • It implies guilt, fault, or moral/relational responsibility.
    • Often it’s paired with an explanation, restitution, or a promise to do better: “I’m sorry I forgot your birthday. I’ll make it up to you.”
    • The hearer expects not just words, but accountability.
  2. Expressing Empathy (Sympathy/Compassion)
    • Here “I’m sorry” does not admit wrongdoing; rather, it expresses shared sorrow or compassion for another’s situation.
    • Example: “I’m so sorry to hear about your father’s passing.”
    • It’s a gesture of solidarity -- communicating that you see the person’s pain and care about it.
    • No responsibility or restitution is implied; the “sorry” is about emotional presence.
Key distinction:

  • In the apology sense, “sorry” is about me and what I did wrong.
  • In the empathy sense, “sorry” is about you and what you’re going through.
 
Upvote 0

Hentenza

I will fear no evil for You are with me
Site Supporter
Mar 27, 2007
35,874
4,527
On the bus to Heaven
✟106,821.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
You didn't apologize at all. Not every "I'm sorry" is an apology.

The same phrase, “I’m sorry,” carries two quite different meanings depending on intent and context:

  1. Acknowledging Wrong (Apology)
    • Here “I’m sorry” means accepting responsibility for something you did (or failed to do) that hurt or inconvenienced another person.
    • It implies guilt, fault, or moral/relational responsibility.
    • Often it’s paired with an explanation, restitution, or a promise to do better: “I’m sorry I forgot your birthday. I’ll make it up to you.”
    • The hearer expects not just words, but accountability.
  2. Expressing Empathy (Sympathy/Compassion)
    • Here “I’m sorry” does not admit wrongdoing; rather, it expresses shared sorrow or compassion for another’s situation.
    • Example: “I’m so sorry to hear about your father’s passing.”
    • It’s a gesture of solidarity -- communicating that you see the person’s pain and care about it.
    • No responsibility or restitution is implied; the “sorry” is about emotional presence.
Key distinction:

  • In the apology sense, “sorry” is about me and what I did wrong.
  • In the empathy sense, “sorry” is about you and what you’re going through.
You are taking this way more seriously than it should. In my original post empathy was my motivation but even if we take this further there are still times that apologizing defuses situations. If you’ve been married for any amount of time (41 years for me) you know the value of this.;)

I had an incident that happened a few months ago where I had pulled into a parking space and apparently missed another car full of what appeared to be gang members wanting that space. The driver was very aggressive and proceeded to berate me and make forward motions that I took as a possibility that he was going to get violent. I apologized to him that I didn’t see him and after a bit they left to find another parking spot. My wife was with me at the time. I also had my hand in my concealed weapon but did not pulled it out. I was not at fault for taking the parking space and did not even see the other car until they pulled behind mine. I firmly believe that if I would not have defused the situation that the probability of violence was great.
 
Upvote 0

keith99

sola dosis facit venenum
Jan 16, 2008
23,116
6,803
72
✟381,886.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
First do no harm!

I think this is a crucial consideration regarding need for an apology. If you had done nothing would things have been better or worse? Far more call for an apology if your actions made things worse, and far less if your actions fell short but made things better.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: Hentenza
Upvote 0

RDKirk

Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner
Site Supporter
Mar 3, 2013
42,269
22,843
US
✟1,744,586.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
First do no harm!

I think this is a crucial consideration regarding need for an apology. If you had done nothing would things have been better or worse? Far more call for an apology if your actions made things worse, and far less if your actions fell short but made things better.
You do realize, though, than an apology--that is to day, an admission of culpability--opens you up to a legal judgment against you, even if you did everything right.

Should you admit culpability if you did everything right?
 
Upvote 0