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Is belief/non-belief a morally culpable state?

public hermit

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In other words, they will know that the position is, for example, wrong...but will not just hold to the belief that it is right because of who said it. But will actually convince themselves that it is right.

That just means what they believe is false, right. i.e., they are lying to themselves? Do they really believe it is both true and false?
 
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jacks

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We of course believe what we think is right; the problem arises when we feel our belief is the only valid one.
"I'm right because (I'm smarter, better educated, more spiritual attuned, have researched it more, I've lived it, because my AI search engine says so, etc. etc.) and you're wrong." Is there a difference between strongly held beliefs and a closed mind?
 
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public hermit

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Is there a difference between strongly held beliefs and a closed mind?

I don't think so, generally. If we have been wrong before (in our beliefs), then we should assume we can be wrong again. I don't think we get to pick and choose what beliefs we might be wrong about. It's more of an attitude than a decision about particular beliefs.
 
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Bradskii

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That just means what they believe is false, right. i.e., they are lying to themselves? Do they really believe it is both true and false?
I'd say that to believe something is true is to convince yourself that it's true. Or simply to accept that someone says it's true, irrespective of the evidence. Quite often it's a matter of preferences. You'd prefer A to be the case, therefore all evidence that supports A will be accepted and that which doesn't will be rejected. Or more likely ignored.

I'm afraid we're all guilty of it to varying extents. We like there to be simple answers to complex questions. It's either black. Or it's white. But we know life's not like that. It's like racism. Every one of us is racist to some extent. It's inbuilt. But if you're aware of that fact you can make corrections in your own positions. So if we know we're biased, we can hopefully correct for it.
 
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public hermit

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I'd say that to believe something is true is to convince yourself that it's true. Or simply to accept that someone says it's true, irrespective of the evidence. Quite often it's a matter of preferences. You'd prefer A to be the case, therefore all evidence that supports A will be accepted and that which doesn't will be rejected. Or more likely ignored.

I'm afraid we're all guilty of it to varying extents. We like there to be simple answers to complex questions. It's either black. Or it's white. But we know life's not like that. It's like racism. Every one of us is racist to some extent. It's inbuilt. But if you're aware of that fact you can make corrections in your own positions. So if we know we're biased, we can hopefully correct for it.
Yeah, that's the key. How can we know when we are biased? What helps us see our epistemic faults?
 
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Bradskii

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Yeah, that's the key. How can we know when we are biased? What helps us see our epistemic faults?
I have found, and this is relatively recently, that when I read or watch or hear about something (generally with a political aspect of some sort) then I sometimes make a quick value judgement before going on to read any opinions about it. If my opinion aligns with the consensus (or with the author of whatever I'm reading or watching) then I'll, play Devil's advocate and try to support the position with which I disagree.

I don't often change my position but at least I have an inklin as to why someone might not agree with me. But then, quite often I'll decide it's because he or she is an idiot...
 
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childeye 2

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Yeah, that's the key. How can we know when we are biased? What helps us see our epistemic faults?
I study semantics particular to psycholinguistics.

We project bias in the absence of proof. The question 'Why?' is eternally regressive. So, without axioms there can be no logic nor mathematics. This is an axiom ---> Something is true. Another axiom --->something is false. True/false is a fundamental dichotomy.

Fact --->What is True precedes a lie in existence because the lie only exists to undermine what is true. Positive/negative is therefore a cycle of energy. <--- This is important for sound reasoning when discerning positive from negative.

We therefore can conduct "Subjective semantic analysis" applying objectively true dichotomies. ---> Positive prejudice vs. negative prejudice, Trust/distrust, Reasonable/unreasonable. ---> Hence, it's reasonable to presume someone is innocent until proven guilty and it's unreasonable to presume someone is guilty till proven innocent.
 
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public hermit

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The question 'Why?' is eternally regressive.

That's exactly why Meister Eckhart claims we should live without a "Why?" God is the eternal now, and always will be. Now is the day of salvation, and so on.
 
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childeye 2

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That's exactly why Meister Eckhart claims we should live without a "Why?" God is the eternal now, and always will be. Now is the day of salvation, and so on.
The Op states ---> Please avoid theological subjects. The term God in scripture is axiomatic, meaning ---> There is a source of the energy that formed all things. So, let's just say The Source of the energy that formed all things, or better yet, The Eternal.

Speaking of NOW, Einstein's special theory of relativity proves that Light/photons from a star born billions of light years away arrives at our telescope instantaneously from when it left the star from the photon's point of view. By the way, Photons can carry information which is how we see.
 
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childeye 2

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It's not just a matter of lying to one's self; it's consciously holding a contradiction....as if it's true! That's impossible, I think. :)
The art of deception (mind manipulation) is about turning positives into negatives and negatives into positives, or making them appear as if they're equally the same so no one can see the difference.

Any reasoning based on something false will end in a contradiction. We can consciously hold contradictory thoughts ---> Cognitive dissonance, Happens all the time.
 
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public hermit

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The Op states ---> Please avoid theological subjects. The term God in scripture is axiomatic, meaning ---> There is a source of the energy that formed all things. So, let's just say The Source of the energy that formed all things, Or in other words, The Eternal.

Speaking of NOW, Einstein's special theory of relativity proves that Light/photons from a star born billions of light years away arrives at our telescope instantaneously from when it left the star from the photon's point of view. By the way, Photons can carry information which is how we see.

My apologies, and I won't do it again. "The Eternal" is fine with me. ;)
 
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David Lamb

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The Op states ---> Please avoid theological subjects. The term God in scripture is axiomatic, meaning ---> There is a source of the energy that formed all things. So, let's just say The Source of the energy that formed all things, or better yet, The Eternal.

Speaking of NOW, Einstein's special theory of relativity proves that Light/photons from a star born billions of light years away arrives at our telescope instantaneously from when it left the star from the photon's point of view. By the way, Photons can carry information which is how we see.
I have just been back to the original post, and yes, it does say "avoid theological subjects", but even so, this is a Christian forum, so it seems an unrealistic expectation to desire posters not even to refer to God as God.
 
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childeye 2

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I have just been back to the original post, and yes, it does say "avoid theological subjects", but even so, this is a Christian forum, so it seems an unrealistic expectation to desire posters not even to refer to God as God.
The "Eternal" without any other added imagery carries sufficient meaning to use objectively. Subjectively speaking, the term God begins to be confused with religions and subjective imagery. But, objectively speaking, I agree it's an unrealistic expectation to not discuss the essence of reality. Even in physics, quantum theory is contemplating quantum fields in space and time which seems to me is exactly that which scripture is referring to as The Word of creation in John 1, which is currently unfolding in space and time.

See this dichotomy ---> Real/unreal. <--- If we imagine two boxes labeled real and unreal for the purpose of forming logical positive/negative sentiments upon which we can reason, then it seems like there would be nothing to put in the unreal box; forming this dichotomy ---> something/nothing. Apart from conveying non-existence or perhaps fiction, for all intents and purposes, it seems as though the unreal box would be empty and carry no other substantive meanings. But if we consider that the only thing that is truly real is that which is Eternal to begin with, then the term "real" would pertain to that which is "meaningful", whereas "unreal" would then convey that which is "meaningless". Meaningful/meaningless.
 
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childeye 2

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What is the relation between belief and moral culpability? Is it wrong to believe X if a more thorough investigation would show that X is false? In other words, do we have a moral obligation to do as thorough an investigation as possible before accepting the truth/falsity of X? If so, how would we know when our investigation is sufficiently thorough?
Love others as you would want to be loved. <--- this conveys that that the term 'moral' means 'caring' how our actions affect others. It also conveys that we must hold ourselves culpable according to the same measure that we would hold others culpable lest our judgments become unrighteous, merciless, unjust, and hypocritical.

Since 'belief' in loving others as oneself carries a positive connotation, then NOT caring would objectively be synonymous with 'unbelief' not 'belief'. Therefore, the term 'belief' in the way you are using it above implies a subjective application.

True dichotomy ---> accuse/excuse <--- Please note that this is a rare occurrence where a negative connotation precedes a positive connotation in the moral/immoral paradigm. This is because reasoning upon the accuse/excuse dichotomy only occurs as a response to something perceived as 'unethical'.

"Is it wrong to believe X if a more thorough investigation would show that X is false?" <--- The way this question is formulated one must answer yes because it infers the belief is wrong to begin with. X in this question therefore connotes a 'wrong belief'.

".... do we have a moral obligation to do as thorough an investigation as possible before accepting the truth/falsity of X?" <--- In this question, X appears to be an accusation or slanderous. So yes, love others as you would want to be loved requires that you investigate thoroughly before accepting or spreading slander. Moreover, it means that it's wrong to believe anything bad about others without proof.
 
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childeye 2

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An epistemologist sat down at a bar next to a professor of linguistics. The epistemologist struck up a conversation by asking the professor, "Did you know that we don't actually know anything?' To that, the professor quickly responded, "So how could you possibly know that, and what's more, why would you expect me to know that?"
 
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childeye 2

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I have found, and this is relatively recently, that when I read or watch or hear about something (generally with a political aspect of some sort) then I sometimes make a quick value judgement before going on to read any opinions about it. If my opinion aligns with the consensus (or with the author of whatever I'm reading or watching) then I'll, play Devil's advocate and try to support the position with which I disagree.

I don't often change my position but at least I have an inklin as to why someone might not agree with me. But then, quite often I'll decide it's because he or she is an idiot...
Hi Bradskii. In another post, you mentioned seeing things in black and white. I would first note that there would not be gray if there were no absolutes of black and white. And that brings to mind the thought that it's futile to try and ascertain where the Light ends and the darkness begins. What matters is ascertaining from which direction the Light is shining from.

That's why in politics we have to use a left/right dichotomy to have sound reasoning. And that's also why many propagandists present false narratives by using absolutes that do not belong in a left/right dichotomy and are misrepresented under the labels Left and Right, so as to manipulate minds. Those who hate Mr. know it all because he makes them feel stupid, prefer an Idiocracy.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Well, there are people in certain circumstances who knowing something to be untrue; will pretend it’s true for a variety of reasons. (Think domestic violence situation and the person is afraid to leave so they tell themselves that their abuser loves them.)

Which of course this brings up the problem of cognitive dissonance.

That and the problems of mental breakdown and/or delusional states of mind, which go beyond mere cognitive dissonance.
 
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