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Salvation by grace through faith and our responsibility?
- Thread starter GoldenKingGaze
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Are there ANY scriptural references/teachings that you do believe in?
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Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
Are there any scriptural references that preface the word dead/death with the word "spiritual"?
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Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
Death in Ephesians 2:4-6 means alienation (verse 12). The prodigal son was "dead" in the sense that he was estranged from his father. His estrangement did not men that he was unable to come to his senses and return to his father. Death in the sense of alienation does not refer to a so called "spiritual" condition. One who is alienated from God is not without the ability to respond to him.
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NLT Luke 15:16-24
16The young man became so hungry that even the pods he was feeding the pigs looked good to him. But no one gave him anything.
17“When he finally came to his senses, he said to himself, ‘At home even the hired servants have food enough to spare, and here I am dying of hunger! 18I will go home to my father and say, “Father, I have sinned against both heaven and you, 19and I am no longer worthy of being called your son. Please take me on as a hired servant.”’
20“So he returned home to his father. And while he was still a long way off, his father saw him coming. Filled with love and compassion, he ran to his son, embraced him, and kissed him. 21His son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against both heaven and you, and I am no longer worthy of being called your son.b’
22“But his father said to the servants, ‘Quick! Bring the finest robe in the house and put it on him. Get a ring for his finger and sandals for his feet. 23And kill the calf we have been fattening. We must celebrate with a feast, 24for this son of mine was dead and has now returned to life. He was lost, but now he is found.’ So the party began.
16The young man became so hungry that even the pods he was feeding the pigs looked good to him. But no one gave him anything.
17“When he finally came to his senses, he said to himself, ‘At home even the hired servants have food enough to spare, and here I am dying of hunger! 18I will go home to my father and say, “Father, I have sinned against both heaven and you, 19and I am no longer worthy of being called your son. Please take me on as a hired servant.”’
20“So he returned home to his father. And while he was still a long way off, his father saw him coming. Filled with love and compassion, he ran to his son, embraced him, and kissed him. 21His son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against both heaven and you, and I am no longer worthy of being called your son.b’
22“But his father said to the servants, ‘Quick! Bring the finest robe in the house and put it on him. Get a ring for his finger and sandals for his feet. 23And kill the calf we have been fattening. We must celebrate with a feast, 24for this son of mine was dead and has now returned to life. He was lost, but now he is found.’ So the party began.
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So you have to redefine scriptures that DO say you are dead in your sins and have to be made alive by Christ in order to get to your preferred theology? Why don't you just embrace a theology that actually reflects what scriptures say?
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caffeinated.hermit
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Some might say that our responsibility is to love with the love with which we are loved, after we are grafted in.
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Paleouss
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Greetings to you GoldenKingGaze. I hope your week has been a blessed one.
Just passing through and saw your OP. I'm not sure the precise intent of the OP, so I'll just wing it.
I just hope I can be the ready vessel so that the Spirit can work through me.
Peace to you brother
Just passing through and saw your OP. I'm not sure the precise intent of the OP, so I'll just wing it.
I agree, we have a responsibility as Christians to be proper parents and preachers of God's word.
Although I would agree that some have more of a gift of preaching than others. I don't think that one's ability has anything to do with it. God shows us over and over again in the Bible that He uses the poor, the sinners. He uses former murderers, former adulterers, former persecutors of His people to preach His word.
I just hope I can be the ready vessel so that the Spirit can work through me.
Without getting into the weeds of whether it is God's predestined plan or if one can lose salvation after being saved. the Bible says that all, which means all, are without excuse. No excuses, no raised without a father, no I was born poor or rich and that made it difficult. Somehow...we all had a chance and are without excuse.
I agree. To God the glory and honor and praise. Blessed are those that believed and are saved.
Peace to you brother
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Dan Perez
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And. this what ECC 12:7 SAYS !!
# 1. Then. shall // SUR - is. in the Qal , in the Perfect tense , in the Singular
# 2 THE DUST // APAR - is a Definite Article , is Singular and is Absolute.
# 3. RETURE // SOR , is. a. verb in the Qal , in the IMPERFECT TENSE , in the Singular
# 4 TO. // AL , is. a Preposition
# 5 THE EARTH. // ERES. , is a Definite Article , in the Singular in. the Aboslute
# 6 AS IT WAS // HAYA , IN THE. QAL
# 7 AND THE SPIRIT // RUAL , IN. the Singular ABSOLUTE
# 8 SHALL RETURE // a verb in the Qal , in the IMPERFECT TENSE , in. the Singular
# 9 UNTO //. EL , is a Preposition
# 10. God. // ELOHIM , in the Plural , ASOLUTE
# 11 WHO // ASER , is a Particle. RELATIVE
#. 12 GAVE IT // NATAN , a verb in the QAL , IN. THE PERFECT TENSE , in the Singular!!
If and a non-believer dies , his spirit is done GONE AWAY FOREVER !!
dan p
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Jack Terrence
Fighting the good fight
No. Calvinists redefined the scriptures. "Dead" as a metaphor in scripture is not a spiritual condition, it is a legal standing. Nowhere does Paul say "spiritually dead." Paul never used the words "spiritually" and "dead together." Spiritual death is an idea that Calvinists imported into the Bible
dead = condemnation
alive = eternal life
"24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death [condemnation] unto life.
Paul was saying that we were under condemnation [dead] because of our sins and that we had received eternal life through faith. Show me where the words "spiritually" and "dead" are used together in the scriptures.
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Clare73
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Are you sure about that?
Feel free to explain the nature of the death of the physically alive Ephesian converts who in Eph 2:1 ("were dead in your transgressions and sins").
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He has to redefine it to “condemned” on order to get to his own beliefs.
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Show me where the word Trinity is in scripture. Like the Trinity spiritual death is a well defined theological concept. A physical death is the separation of the soul from the body. Spiritual death, which is of greater significance, is the separation of the soul from God. For example, God tells Adam the he would surely die after eating the forbidden fruit but his physical death did not come until much later. Surely God did not mean physical death here so what death do you think God meant?
“but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.””
Genesis 2:17 NASB2020
Genesis 2:17 but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.” | New American Standard Bible - NASB (NASB2020) | Download The Bible App Now
but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for on the day that you eat from it you will certainly die.”
bible.com
מוּת mûwth, mooth; a primitive root; to die (literally or figuratively); causatively, to kill:—×at all, × crying, (be) dead (body, man, one), (put to, worthy of) death, destroy(-er), (cause to, be like to, must) die, kill, necro(-mancer), × must needs, slay, × surely, × very suddenly, × in (no) wise.
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