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eclipsenow

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Sounds like a good reason to get rid of the entire for-profit health insurance industry, and switch to a single payer system. This way, you wouldn't be at the mercy of whatever changes your private, for profit health insurance company chooses to make to whatever plan your employer chooses to offer you.

I agree with many of the criticisms of the Heritage Foundation created ACA. It's a conservative, market based plan that only bolsters the private for profit health insurance industry. I'll grant you that it's better than nothing, but not by a lot.

-- A2SG, but I hope you realize that President Obama personally didn't make any changes to your company's chosen health insurance plan....
I hear you - and those for profit insurance agencies certainly do raise the costs by paying shares, paying their ridiculous CEO salaries, paying huge marketing fees, etc. The Federal government as a single-insurer would cut a lot of those costs, and just have public servants running it.

But if that's all that happens - will not the Federal government be footing the bill to pad the wallets of profit-driven private hospital CEO's, marketing, etc?

The Federal government also needs to buy at least half the hospitals to be government owned and operated. That’s the way it is here in Australia, and how we deliver UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE at half the price!

[ Private hospitals have a profit motive which means pushing extra procedures and scans “Just to be sure…” - just so we can charge you more! ]

RESULTS: Australians go to the doctors more, get diagnosed earlier, and go to the hospital sooner to nip it in the bud earlier. All at HALF the cost of the American system.
U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022: Accelerating Spending, Worsening Outcomes

How Does the U.S. Healthcare System Compare to Other Countries?

Check the wiki sources:
Healthcare in the United States - Wikipedia
 
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ozso

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I didn't know that - thank you for explaining that to me.
So you like the fact that Trump made this WORSE for 16 million extra Americans?
That's just another dime a dozen doomsday prediction. Actually believe all of those do you?

CNN getting people wound up so tight is the real threat to their health.
 
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essentialsaltes

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That's just another dime a dozen doomsday prediction. Actually believe all of those do you?
Trump's cutting money for healthcare. That will remove people from healthcare. Your play is supposed to be that these are all fraudsters with sound bodies who should go out and a get a job with healthcare.
 
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eclipsenow

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That's just another dime a dozen doomsday prediction. Actually believe all of those do you?
If they're from academically credible sources estimating the financial outcomes - yes - as a general proposition - I do!
CNN getting people wound up so tight is the real threat to their health.
People gullibly sucking down Trump's "truths" are a real threat to global health, peace, and prosperity
 
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eclipsenow

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Trump's cutting money for healthcare. That will remove people from healthcare. Your play is supposed to be that these are all fraudsters with sound bodies who should go out and a get a job with healthcare.
As many have noted, they're not running from the normal conservative playbook any more.
They're saying the "Quite bits out loud."
 
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ozso

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If they're from academically credible sources estimating the financial outcomes - yes - as a general proposition - I do!

People gullibly sucking down Trump's "truths" are a real threat to global health, peace, and prosperity
Okay, well enjoy being uptight all the time.
 
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ozso

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Trump's cutting money for healthcare. That will remove people from healthcare. Your play is supposed to be that these are all fraudsters with sound bodies who should go out and a get a job with healthcare.
It's probably waste, excess and misuse. Rather than the evil dictatorship wants to kill all the poor people cause nazi.
 
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eclipsenow

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Last time around Trump improved the bad situation Obama put me on.
1. How so? Any evidence of this that it was actually a Federal government initiative? My understanding was Obama's ACA vastly reduced the number of uninsured - Trump's first term started to raise it again by cutting certain marketing programs - and then Biden corrected that. It sounds like Trump wants to trash ACA and get those uninsured back!
An estimated 26 million Americans, or 8 percent of the U.S. population, lacked health insurance in 2023.1 While the United States still lags countries that have universal coverage, today’s uninsured rate represents a sea change from the years prior to the Affordable Care Act (ACA), when twice as many people — 49 million, or 16 percent of the population — lacked health coverage.2 This was also a time when people with preexisting conditions were out of luck when they sought to buy insurance on their own, when millions of young adults became uninsured when they graduated from high school or college, and when insurance companies in the individual market charged young women much higher premiums than young men and rarely covered maternity care.​
Congress and the Biden-Harris administration significantly strengthened the ACA with a temporary boost in premium subsidies for marketplace plans during the pandemic and then extended them in 2022. These subsidies, along with restored funding for outreach and enrollment following cutbacks during the Trump administration, led to a record 21 million people enrolling in marketplace plans in 2024.3 For households with low or moderate incomes, zero-premium or otherwise low-cost marketplace plans have been a source of affordable coverage for people who lost Medicaid when the pandemic-era continuous coverage protections ended. The extra subsidies also have allowed people in high-cost employer plans to access a more affordable coverage option.


2. Any explanation as to why the USA cannot have universal healthcare like we enjoy in Australia - and at half the price?

1756352714505.png

 
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ozso

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1. How so?
Trump removed Obama's hefty tax penalty I had to pay for not being able to afford healthcare. If I was a bum who didn't work, then I would've gotten subsidized. But since I had a job, I was out of luck.
Any evidence of this that it was actually a Federal government initiative? My understanding was Obama's ACA vastly reduced the number of uninsured - Trump's first term started to raise it again by cutting certain marketing programs - and then Biden corrected that. It sounds like Trump wants to trash ACA and get those uninsured back!
As long as you keep going with the Trump is an evil despot who wants American citizens to suffer and die narrative, you'll never get a clear picture.

2. Any explanation as to why the USA cannot have universal healthcare like we enjoy in Australia - and at half the price?

Nope. But I know Australia has a population of only 27 million, so that might have something to do with it.
 
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A2SG

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I hear you - and those for profit insurance agencies certainly do raise the costs by paying shares, paying their ridiculous CEO salaries, paying huge marketing fees, etc. The Federal government as a single-insurer would cut a lot of those costs, and just have public servants running it.

But if that's all that happens - will not the Federal government be footing the bill to pad the wallets of profit-driven private hospital CEO's, marketing, etc?

The Federal government also needs to buy at least half the hospitals to be government owned and operated. That’s the way it is here in Australia, and how we deliver UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE at half the price!

[ Private hospitals have a profit motive which means pushing extra procedures and scans “Just to be sure…” - just so we can charge you more! ]

RESULTS: Australians go to the doctors more, get diagnosed earlier, and go to the hospital sooner to nip it in the bud earlier. All at HALF the cost of the American system.
U.S. Health Care from a Global Perspective, 2022: Accelerating Spending, Worsening Outcomes

How Does the U.S. Healthcare System Compare to Other Countries?

Check the wiki sources:
Healthcare in the United States - Wikipedia
Therein lies the problem. For profit health insurance companies rake in billions in profit every year, and money that big is exceptionally hard to get rid of in this country. Our government may purport to be "of the people, by the people and for the people," but the reality is government policies are dictated by money, and large industries that generate tons of profit, like the private for profit health care industry, provide that.

I fully support a workable single payer health care system, but I also know, given Citizens United and everything that has followed, it will likely never happen. Not in my lifetime, certainly.

-- A2SG, but one can always hope.....
 
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eclipsenow

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Trump removed Obama's hefty tax penalty I had to pay for not being able to afford healthcare. If I was a bum who didn't work, then I would've gotten subsidized. But since I had a job, I was out of luck.

As long as you keep going with the Trump is an evil despot who wants American citizens to suffer and die narrative, you'll never get a clear picture.

As long as you do not reply with clear evidence of what you are talking about - and keep avoiding the questions put directly to you - you'll never give a credible reply.
Nope. But I know Australia has a population of only 27 million, so that might have something to do with it.
Population is already accounted for in the graph - as it is per capita. So it has nothing to do with it.
 
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eclipsenow

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Therein lies the problem. For profit health insurance companies rake in billions in profit every year, and money that big is exceptionally hard to get rid of in this country. Our government may purport to be "of the people, by the people and for the people," but the reality is government policies are dictated by money, and large industries that generate tons of profit, like the private for profit health care industry, provide that.

I fully support a workable single payer health care system, but I also know, given Citizens United and everything that has followed, it will likely never happen. Not in my lifetime, certainly.

-- A2SG, but one can always hope.....
I hear you.

And that's just the insurance part of it.

Imagine the government trying to buy half the hospitals, and hire half the medical staff in America to be run as a government owned and operated system to kick out those Private Hospital CEO's and all the Private Health SUPPLIER extra costs as well?

Australia has 700 hospitals - and 51% are government owned.
In the UK there are 930 NHS hospitals + 218 private - so an even higher percent of government owned and operated. And while I hear the UK's NHS is in a bit of a crisis at the moment, it probably just needs a bit more money. After all - they're cheaper than us here in Australia!
(On a per capita basis.)

1756360835767.png
 
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ozso

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As long as you do not reply with clear evidence of what you are talking about - and keep avoiding the questions put directly to you - you'll never give a credible reply.
I gave an honest direct answer to your question. If you don't get it, you don't know enough about what goes on here.
Population is already accounted for in the graph - as it is per capita. So it has nothing to do with it.
What's your point in regard to the current administration?
 
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eclipsenow

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I gave an honest direct answer to your question. If you don't get it, you don't know enough about what goes on here
More avoidance. If you want to try again - go back a few posts and figure out where you went sideways

What's your point in regard to the current administration?
I told you. Trump rewarded his billionaire buddies while taking 16 MILLION extra Americans off healthcare.
 
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ozso

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More avoidance. If you want to try again - go back a few posts and figure out where you went sideways
Sorry, not seeing it.
I told you. Trump rewarded his billionaire buddies while taking 16 MILLION extra Americans off healthcare.
Reports predict that an estimated 16 million additional Americans will become uninsured by 2034. A prediction... an estimation... 9 years into the future... :rolleyes:
 
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eclipsenow

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Sorry, not seeing it.
The other conversation we were having was about your claim that Obama stopped you having healthcare. But in fact we were discussing broader American healthcare policy. I know I'm discussing something with a MAGA - but at least try to present the truth about the effects of broader American healthcare policy - and not warp it by cherry-picking your own situation. The fact? Obama over halved the number of uninsured.

Reports predict that an estimated 16 million additional Americans will become uninsured by 2034. A prediction... an estimation... 9 years into the future... :rolleyes:
Not true. Different cuts kick in at different periods.

While Trump's billionaire mates get their reward straight away (phew - I mean - I was so worried about that!) - the cuts kick in over time.

SNAP could hurt some poor - to the point where it becomes a choice on paying for energy or paying for meds. That's $100 a month. I mean - the top 10 billionaires get $30 MILLION tax back each year - so given that's 3 TRILLION over a decade - maybe some of that should be spread out amongst the poor instead to help them not freeze or miss their diabetes meds?

But forget that.

300 hospitals could be closing soon.


Some experts predict that cuts to Medicaid will impact nearly every state, with most expected to see more than 25% of their hospitals shut down. In 11 states, the risk is even higher, with 50% or more of hospitals at risk.
That’s because rural hospitals often have lower financial reserves, meaning any reduction in revenue could lead to closures or force some to roll back essential services.​
President Donald Trump’s tax overhaul legislation represents the largest federal rollback to Medicaid to date.​
Here are three things you need to know about what Trump’s Medicaid cuts could mean for you in 2025.​

1. Are hospitals closing due to Medicaid cuts?​

Overall, more than 700 rural hospitals could close due to Medicaid cuts, which translates to one-third of all rural hospitals in the country. As noted, an estimated 300 are at immediate risk of shutting down.
The most at-risk hospitals are located in isolated rural communities, which would force residents to travel long distances for inpatient or emergency care.​
These hospitals may also be reliant on Medicaid reimbursements, as studies show that adults and children in small towns and rural communities are more likely to have Medicaid or the Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP).​
The top five states that could see the most closures are so-called "red states," led by Kansas.
  • In Kansas, an estimated 66 rural hospitals could be on the chopping block, according to the Center for Healthcare Quality & Payment Reform, with 89 facing service cuts.
  • Researchers project that 28 rural hospitals in Kansas are at immediate risk of closing due to Medicaid cuts.
  • This would be followed by Oklahoma, Alabama, Texas, and Mississippi.
  • As a snapshot, in Texas, as many as 108 (or 69%) of rural hospitals would face losses in services. An estimated 66 hospitals are at risk of closing, with 29 flagged under immediate risk.


Tax cuts to billionaires.
Rural hospitals closing down.
How revolting! :sick: :sick:
 
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essentialsaltes

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It's probably waste, excess and misuse.
We'll see how the waste, excess and misuse feels when they lose their healthcare.
Rather than the evil dictatorship wants to kill all the poor people cause nazi.
The evil oligarchy has to try to pay for its tax cuts for the rich. Even at that it failed. The Big Billionaire Buffet puts us trillions more in the hole.
 
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ozso

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We'll see how the waste, excess and misuse feels when they lose their healthcare.
They who specifically?
The evil oligarchy has to try to pay for its tax cuts for the rich. Even at that it failed. The Big Billionaire Buffet puts us trillions more in the hole.
If only I had a dollar for every false prediction that was made during the first administration. How can people put so much trust in sources that gave them needless stomach ulcers the first time around?
 
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