Trump to sign executive order directing AG to prosecute flag desecration

RDKirk · Tuesday at 12:24 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
And? Your point? I am not suggesting that in EVERY case, America had reasons to be proud more so that every other country. But in many cases, they can. Where is the confusion. Last I checked, America is still the only country to have walked on the moon.

That's from your point of view and the things you think are important to be proud of, which are shaped by the national mythology that surrounds you.

Someone else may be more proud that there's nobody in his country who goes without food or shelter or medical care.

Tropical Wilds · Tuesday at 12:28 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
Then it is a good thing I am not saying otherwise.

What does that even mean.

Tropical Wilds · Tuesday at 12:28 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
So please give us an example of what you are talking about.

With displays of racism?

RDKirk · Tuesday at 12:32 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
I think not engaging with racist behavior isn’t really an optics thing but a “I don’t want to be associated with racists” thing.

But it's the "optics" that is precisely what you and @Nithavela have been talking about.

You haven't been talking about "engaging with racist behavior," you've been talking about symbols that liberals are afraid associate them with racists.

That's like Jesus doing His own thing but afraid of being associates with sinners.

Aryeh Jay · Tuesday at 12:33 PM

RDKirk said:
Someone else may be more proud that there's nobody in his country who goes without food or shelter or medical care.

I'm pretty sure landing on the moon 50+ years ago trumps humanitarian and compassionate achievements.

Tropical Wilds · Tuesday at 12:48 PM

RDKirk said:
But it's the "optics" that is precisely what you and @Nithavela have been talking about.

You haven't been talking about "engaging with racist behavior," you've been talking about symbols that liberals are afraid associate them with racists.

That's like Jesus doing His own thing but afraid of being associates with sinners.

Again, it’s not the optics. It’s not engaging in behavior that racists engage in as I have no desire to overlap with them.

RileyG · Tuesday at 12:49 PM

durangodawood said:
Flag burning needs to be outlawed on environmental protection grounds. Like people throwing plastic into their "burn barrels" Its a vile offense against other peoples air.

I think that’s fair based on environmental concerns. My opinion only.

RileyG · Tuesday at 12:51 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
Perhaps I used a poor example. Because this country tolerates attacks on the Christian faith. Perhaps I should have used the example of burning a picture of Muhammad. The existence in itself being forbidden, and the burning thereof just adding to the insult. Christians have been arrested for much less.

I think making artwork of Mohammad would be enough to trigger Muslim extremists to anger and violence because images is against their religion.

(I wouldn’t call it a hate crime, imo)

Oompa Loompa · Tuesday at 1:24 PM

RileyG said:
I think making artwork of Mohammad would be enough to trigger Muslim extremists to anger and violence because images is against their religion.

(I wouldn’t call it a hate crime, imo)

Well, apparently liking bacon is now a hate crime in the UK. So I will leave that there to show how sensitive and intolerant Muslims are.

RileyG · Tuesday at 1:30 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
Well, apparently liking bacon is now a hate crime in the UK. So I will leave that there to show how sensitive and intolerant Muslims are.

Some extremists will complain if bacon is on the menu. It’s ridiculous.

Now back on topic

Tropical Wilds · Tuesday at 3:29 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
Well, apparently liking bacon is now a hate crime in the UK. So I will leave that there to show how sensitive and intolerant Muslims are.

Thats absurd to even claim and you know it. Flaming another religion by seeking out victimhood is bad enough, but to flat out lie is a bit much.

RileyG · Tuesday at 3:37 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
Thats absurd to even claim and you know it. Flaming another religion by seeking out victimhood is bad enough, but to flat out lie is a bit much.

Actually, a 23 year old man was arrested in the UK for saying “we love bacon” outside a UK mosque several days ago. The entire country doesn’t hate it, but it offended someone.

Ridiculous

Bradskii · Tuesday at 4:22 PM

Nithavela said:
I have read several articles about people wondering if the english flag can be "reclaimed" from the far right, as if just by being used by the far right, has become forever tainted.

This is one of many weaknesses of the left. They are so worried by the negative connotations of anything that it is far to easy to take things away from them. Be it political topics, symbols or just simple hand gestures like the OK sign, once it is used by a racist, it becomes politically incorrect to use, and anyone using it becomes suspect. No wonder the left alienates people.

The problem is that, in both the UK and Australia, overt patriotism just doesn't feel right. Nobody needs to fly the Union flag or the Australian flag to show that they have pride in their country. So when you see them being waved by a crowd of white people, generally men, then it signifies something else. Generally that 'we are British/Australian and anyone who doesn't look like us isn't'.

It's not that the flag has become a symbol of racism, it's simply the context in which it's used.

RileyG · Tuesday at 4:30 PM

Bradskii said:
The problem is that, in both the UK and Australia, overt patriotism just doesn't feel right. Nobody needs to fly the Union flag or the Australian flag to show that they have pride in their country. So when you see them being waved by a crowd of white people, generally men, then it signifies something else. Generally that 'we are British/Australian and anyone who doesn't look like us isn't'.

It's not that the flag has become a symbol of racism, it's simply the context in which it's used.

Very informative, thank you.

I’ve also learned some people outside the United States think Americans are weird for having our flag everywhere or flag for decor.

Growing up, my family had a TON of flag decor. Not because of patriotism, but because it was pretty! That was also in the early 2000s.

Bradskii · Tuesday at 4:34 PM

RDKirk said:
You completely agree, then, with @Nithavela

You are worried about negative connotations and political correctness because you believe you'll be lumped in with the racists.

If I was in a group of men marching through the city waving Australian flags then unless there's an obvious reason for it (we're heading to the SCG to watch Australia beat England in the cricket), then people would assume this was some kind of march against immigration. Again, it's context.

I've got a keffiyeh in my wardrobe. I bought it years ago in a market in Morocco. I wore it recently on a march supporting Palestine and it was obvious why it was being worn. But wearing it on a daily basis locally where there are a lot of synagogues might be seen as being anti-Semitic. Context is all.

Bradskii · Tuesday at 4:37 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
And Americans have things they can be proud of, in many cases more so than EVERY OTHER COUNTRY. America is the only country who can say that.

Part of what makes a country great is acknowledging what they have done and are doing that isn't so great. Admitting to your faults. There seems to be a distinct lack of that in some sections of the US.

Nithavela · Tuesday at 5:05 PM

Bradskii said:
The problem is that, in both the UK and Australia, overt patriotism just doesn't feel right. Nobody needs to fly the Union flag or the Australian flag to show that they have pride in their country. So when you see them being waved by a crowd of white people, generally men, then it signifies something else. Generally that 'we are British/Australian and anyone who doesn't look like us isn't'.

It's not that the flag has become a symbol of racism, it's simply the context in which it's used.

And yet the left now acts like the english flag is forever claimed and tainted by racism and can no longer be used in any positive context.

Oompa Loompa · Tuesday at 5:06 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
Thats absurd to even claim and you know it. Flaming another religion by seeking out victimhood is bad enough, but to flat out lie is a bit much.

"Flaming" huh? "Flat out lie" huh? Perhaps I deserve an apology.

RileyG · Tuesday at 5:07 PM

Nithavela said:
And yet the left now acts like the english flag is forever claimed and tainted by racism and can no longer be used in any positive context.

What? I’m sure I’ve seen countless images of Jesus with the English flag and no one ever complained.

(I’m aware the English flag is NOT Union Jack)

I need to be enlightened.

RileyG · Tuesday at 5:08 PM

Oompa Loompa said:
"Flaming" huh? "Flat out lie" huh? Perhaps I deserve an apology.

Yup. That was the young man I was referring to.

No one was flaming Islam. Period.

Trump to sign executive order directing AG to prosecute flag desecration

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