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Niels

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God has nothing to do with social justice. That is a fleshly carnal thought/process/ not in Christ Jesus.
Jesus taught us to love our neighbors as ourselves. The point of social justice is loving our neighbors.

God is Totally Perfect in All His Ways , and Gives Eternal Perfect Instructions to His children , in fact He is Delighted to Reveal the Truth to little children (who trust Him).
God may be just in the eternal sense, but that doesn't mean this world is perfect. According to the Bible, it is fallen. The book of Job and the parable of Lazarus and the rich man illustrate this.
 
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Larniavc

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If they do not agree with the thoughts of Jesus
I’m constantly amazed by how closely the thoughts of Jesus invariably align identically with my interlocutor.
 
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Clare73

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Jesus taught us to love our neighbors as ourselves. The point of social justice is loving our neighbors.
You are confusing charity with "social" justice.
God may be just in the eternal sense, but that doesn't mean this world is perfect. According to the Bible, it is fallen. The book of Job and the parable of Lazarus and the rich man illustrate this.
"Social" justice is simply justice, giving everyone his due, what he has earned.

Giving one more than he has earned is charity, not to be confused with justice.
 
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Niels

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"Social" justice is simply justice, giving everyone his due, what he has earned.

Giving one more than he has earned is charity, not to be confused with justice.
Do you acknowledge social injustices in this world, or do you think everyone gets what they deserve?

Charity is great, but teaching a person to fish can be more beneficial than simply giving them a fish. Assuming that they are healthy enough, aren't oppressed by society for things they can't control (like skin color or gender), or otherwise prevented from fishing through no fault of their own. That's where social justice becomes a factor.
 
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Clare73

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Do you acknowledge social injustices in this world, or do you think everyone gets what they deserve?
I acknowledge all injustices in the world, no matter the realm, as simply injustice.
Charity is great, but teaching a person to fish can be more beneficial than simply giving them a fish.
It is benevolence (charity) to expend what it takes to teach them to fish.
Assuming that they are healthy enough, aren't oppressed by society for things they can't control (like skin color or gender), or otherwise prevented from fishing through no fault of their own. That's where social justice becomes a factor.
It's simply justice.
 
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Niels

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I acknowledge all injustices in the world, no matter the realm, as simply injustice.

It is benevolence (charity) to expend what it takes to teach them to fish.

It's simply justice.
Thanks for clarifying your position. I agree that social justice falls under the umbrella of justice. How do you propose addressing injustices?

In a previous post you referred to the legal system. Do you think the legal system is currently sufficient for addressing all injustices, or do you think more work needs to be done?
 
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Clare73

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Thanks for clarifying your position. I agree that social justice falls under the umbrella of justice. How do you propose addressing injustices?

In a previous post you referred to the legal system. Do you think the legal system is currently sufficient for addressing all injustices, or do you think more work needs to be done?
For starters, it's a fallen world and I do not expect that all injustice will be removed.

Our legal system is the only authority for declarying injustice.

All are free to contribute to remedy what they see as injustice falling through the cracks of our legal system..
 
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stevevw

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What is social justice. It seems a subjective determination as to whatever the social norms and ideas are of a particular society. Social justice in one culture could be injustice in another.

Under todays social justice SSM is a right and yet to Christians this breaches Gods law. Abortion rights is social justice in giving women autonomy rights to their own body. Yet this breaches Gods laws.

There may be some paralelles between the principles of social justice and Gods laws and Christs truths. But social justice is a human made idea based on human social norms and laws and not Gods.

In fact the principles of social justice are stolen from God and then used to support a worldly idea of what is a just society in creating a worldly kingdom on earth. Unless social justice is tempered with Gods law and Christs truth then it falls short.
 
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stevevw

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Isn't part of legal justice 'retributive justice'. Punishment is part of justice under the legal system. There is no grace. Victims are given full justice by also punishing the perpetrator. Like an eye for an eye. If the perpetrator is not punished to the expected level then this is seen as an injustice.

There is little forgiveness for the perpetrator. We see on social media how people are shamed, outed, hounded, lives made hell if they have said or done the wrong thing. But this is all subjective and what is deemed wrong is arbitrary according social norms at the time. Or whoever shouts the loudest.
 
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Ophiolite

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"Compelled" is in the eye of the beholder, what compels one does not compel another.
"Compelled" or not, she was free to reject it.
If I need more than a McDonald's salary to support my four children, I work somewhere else, I don't expect McDonald's to raise the pay to accommodate my needs.
Her circumstances are her own responsibility, not that of the employer, whose responsibility is staying in business for the sake of his own family.
The free market will determine if the McDonalds owner is offering equivalent value for what he charges his customers, which is based on his expenses, including employee salaries.
Ayn Rand would be proud of you.
 
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fhansen

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Isn't part of legal justice 'retributive justice'. Punishment is part of justice under the legal system. There is no grace. Victims are given full justice by also punishing the perpetrator. Like an eye for an eye. If the perpetrator is not punished to the expected level then this is seen as an injustice.

There is little forgiveness for the perpetrator. We see on social media how people are shamed, outed, hounded, lives made hell if they have said or done the wrong thing. But this is all subjective and what is deemed wrong is arbitrary according social norms at the time. Or whoever shouts the loudest.
Social justice from the church's perspective is ultimately about being our brother's keeper. While caring for the poor, the imprisoned, the sick have always been major parts of the Christian agenda, teaching and acting on human rights on a larger non-local scale has gained much of its ground in the last century or two. For example, due to the industrial revolution huge numbers of families moved from farm to factory work in the cities-and captialists, who were firstly all about captializing on their resources, tended to exploit labor with poor pay and working conditions. The church began to be vocal regarding these matters in the late 19th century. Much of the social justice teaching was formulated since then with the necessity of preserving human dignity and quality of life at the forefront.
 
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stevevw

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Social justice from the church's perspective is ultimately about being our brother's keeper. While caring for the poor, the imprisoned, the sick have always been major parts of the Christian agenda, teaching and acting on human rights on a larger non-local scale has gained much of its ground in the last century or two. For example, due to the industrial revolution huge numbers of families moved from farm to factory work in the cities-and captialists, who were firstly all about captializing on their resources, tended to exploit labor with poor pay and working conditions. The church began to be vocal regarding these matters in the late 19th century. Much of the social justice teaching was formulated since then with the necessity of preserving human dignity and quality of life at the forefront.
Yes I remember reading how the churches helped the poor on the streets in the cities and they opened up soup kitchens and refuges. We see this same charity throughout history of good Christians going about helping those in need. If it was not for this chariable work society would collapse.

I think charities can be advocates for the poor but not really politically active. Its more just bieng there no matter what authority is in power. The good consistent work of Christians is itself a powerful example that exposes the injustice of the world systems that don't care for the poor and disadvantaged. Or only care for their own kind or whatever ideology they support.
 
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fhansen

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Yes I remember reading how the churches helped the poor on the streets in the cities and they opened up soup kitchens and refuges. we see this same charity throughout history of good Christians going about helping those in need. It it was not for this chariable work society would collapse.

I think charities can be advocates for the poor but not really politically active. Its more just bieng there no matter what authority is in power. The good consistent work of Christians is itself a powerful example that exposes the injustice of the world systems that don't care for the poor and disadvantaged. Or only care for their own kind.
But the marginalized also need a voice- in politics or wherever that voice may serve to benefit humanity as a whole. The human treatment of humans must be a major focal point of the church. This has also mainfested itself in "just war" theories, for example, the purpose of which is to mitigate suffering in the unfortunate inevitability of war- even as all war is denounced from the larger perspective of love of neighbor.
 
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stevevw

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But the marginalized also need a voice- in politics or wherever that voice may serve to benefit humanity as a whole. The human treatment of humans must be a major focal point of the church. This has also mainfested itself in "just war" theories, for example, the purpose of which is to mitigate suffering in the unfortunate inevitability of war- even as all war is denounced from the larger perspective of love of neighbor.
I don't know. Its seems too much of a hot bed to jump into. A can of worms. There is no clear destinction in politics between all the warring factions even on the same side.

Where do you draw the line. Do Christians jump in picket lines with secular groups who may be pushing certain political agendas. Because thats what politics is about. Its not a fair playing field and all sorts of dirty tricks are used on both sides.

Otherwise Christian political activists just become another identity group of activists within a world system that is always at war with each other over what is good and right and just.

I think there should be a clear destinction between how Christians go about social justice (if you can call it that). But generally advocating and helping the disadvantaged has always been done on a charity basis with no strings attached. Christians should always speak out for the disadvantaged.

Christian churches should not be subject to the State or political ideologies. Ideologies immediately make it divisive as the person or groups activism will be influenced by their political ideology. Then as a church it becomes choosing sides.

Christian help was always seperate and independent and part of the mission of a church is to help the poor and disadvantaged. Even to the point of giving up their own time and resources to help others without any return.

Over the years this has transformed society without any real activism. Its how hospitals and universities began. If churches followed the Good samaritan then the world would see this power example and this in itself would be activism and I think a more powerful way to transform society.

And its worked in the past. Any great change that has come has begun grass roots within churches or by Christians helping people practically and transforming from within. There would be now many Christians changing the circumstances of people and no one knows and I think thats a powerful force as it also transforms communities.
 
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