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HARK!

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Well, because if we did that, (deport-based-on-“charges”), charges would be filed on all as a matter of course, eliminating the need for the rest of that pesky “due process”.
No need to eliminate due process.

The foreign national may be held in a detention center before trial or deportation. Find out how to locate someone detained by ICE.
After a noncitizen is detained, they may go before a judge in immigration court during the deportation (removal) process. In some cases, a noncitizen is subject to expedited removal without being able to attend a hearing in immigration court. Expedited removal may happen when a noncitizen:
  • Comes to the U.S. without proper travel documents

  • Uses forged travel documents

  • Does not comply with their visa or other entry document requirements
Learn more about deportation under an order of expedited removal.


They will get all of the process that they are due.

What’s ”evidence“ of someone not “belonging” here, and allegedly breaking the immigration statutes?
  • Comes to the U.S. without proper travel documents

  • Uses forged travel documents

  • Does not comply with their visa or other entry document requirements
 
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HARK!

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Sometimes (how often or not I don't have the figures)
"guests", or even known and proven criminals, enjoy more rights or privilege or money or favor , even though not right, even though unjust
Yep, it's almost like some are using my tax dollars to buy votes, when they give cash awards and benefits to entice criminals to live under their protection. In this way they skew the census numbers, to gain more seats, to gain more power.
 
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eclipsenow

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The OT verses are for those who enter a country legally.
No it doesn't. The OT didn't have ENTRY rules - just laws about how immigrants should live within Israel's borders.
And other than a few enemy kingdoms, I can't see anything about treating them miserably or exporting them.

It is not biblical to violate a law to achieve a possible “good.”
Yes it is! Are you to obey God or the laws of men?

Gods word teaches to obey the laws of the land. Rom 13.
True. But did you notice that Paul calls the Roman government "God's servants to do you good."
They maintain the law. But they also allowed exposure - the placing of full term babies in the woods to die by thirst or wild dogs!
My point? While Paul called on us to obey the law because chaos could bring down a civilisation - and Paul endorsed the Roman government as "God's servants" in this role - there is no way Paul would have endorsed letting babies be torn to bits by wild animals. That is - their role in protecting against chaos is good - but not every law they passed was good - and not everything they allowed was good.


If you don't like a law, then do everything legally within your power to get the law changed.
That's the difference! We live in a democracy.

So when you say: "Are you ok with millions of illegal entrants the Biden administration let in during his 4 yr term...or should they be deported?"
I have 3 comments:


1. If Biden allowed them in - why are they illegals? ;) I'm sure you didn't mean it - but to me the term 'allowed' implies he welcomed them in with open arms and gave them citizenship. Or were you merely referring to his 'softer' stance on the border? On immigrants? Could it be his stance was more compassionate and in line with the bible on immigrants than Trump?

2. Sure - with Democratic Presidents there is a 'rebound effect' where the numbers can surge on the mere perception of a kinder President. It took a few years to take effect, but Kamala started doing great work south of the border in addressing the reasons they wanted to leave. She was never the "Border Tsar" - that wasn't her brief. But she was working on reducing the so called "push" factors as she visited the nations south of the border. Numbers were coming down. This is also a demonstrable fact.

Trump can't see those nations - he just wants to spend umpteen billion dollars a year maintaining a crazy huge wall to stop those immigrants - and even got upset when people told him they could NOT afford to dig a trench and fill it with water, snakes, and crocodiles from sea to shining sea! This is also a demonstrable fact.

3. Sure Trump's harshness has addressed some of the "pull" factors. But is that a good thing? What is it you are afraid of, given that most immigrants are MORE likely to be law-abiding citizens and eventually contribute more to America than native born Americans? Did you know this demonstrable fact from dozens of studies? It's like complaining that a river of gold is pouring into your country.

But now that his masked ICE goon-squads are starting to grab any 'ethnic looking' person off the street - American citizen or not - what kind of society are you living in? Are you OK with tens of thousands of LEGAL American citizens being harassed like this?

When business people from friendly nations like Canada are grabbed - no explanation - and held for 2 weeks in terrible conditions because of the smallest glitch in their paperwork, what kind of society are you living in?

When customs officers demand you open your phone and hand it over so they can check your social media feed - what kind of society are you living in? Do you know what motivates some of these private companies? They are paid per person! The love of money is the root of all kinds of evil. It's a perverse incentive - a cash grab.


Until then, it is a law and should be obeyed.
An inconvenient truth. Be blessed.
I'm lucky. I'm Australian. But if I were living somewhere in the USA and knew the personal circumstances of some fellow-human beings, like some of the stories I've read about - there's no way I would co-operate. If ICE were knocking on my front door, my love for these people would compel me to lie and have my wife help them escape out the back. For example, one story I read about. A bunch of Central American coffee growers have had a rough few years with the weather and natural disasters. Their income is slashed! But not only that - there's a drug gang in the area demanding 'protection money'. The farmers could not pay. So the gang abducted their teenage daughter to run in their prostitution cartel. My heart bleeds for them when I think of my own daughter - does yours?

I would NOT be handing this family over to ICE just because a tiny fraction more Americans voted for the alt-right rather than common human decency!

So I'm with Bonhoeffer on this. I would not comply.
 
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RocksInMyHead

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I find this to be relevant:
I don't.
The government also pointed to a 2019 incident in which Mahdawi was stopped at the US border and “found to be carrying drugs,” the court filing charges.
Okay?

Neither of these things (if they're even true) has anything to do with the fact that he was summoned for his supposed "final citizenship interview" and instead arrested. I don't really care whether you think he should have been arrested or whether he deserved to be a citizen or even to be in the US - all of those are irrelevant to the point being made, which is that US immigration services are taking advantage of people who are following the laws and complying with our existing immigration system by summoning them for interviews or immigration court hearings and instead arresting them.
 
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eclipsenow

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RocksInMyHead

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I have no doubt that there are cases in which government representatives have illegally or unjustly used law enforcement resources to punish personal or political opponents. The problematic part is trying to apply that to Trump.

The reality is that running for public office - especially the presidency - puts your life and the lives of those around you under a microscope. Illegal activities that you might otherwise have gotten away with may come to light, and when they do, you might end up getting prosecuted for them or facing other personal or political consequences. This goes for both sides of the political aisle. Do you think anyone would have cared about Hunter Biden if his father hadn't run for president? John Edwards probably would still have a political career (and possibly even his marriage) without his presidential run. And so on.
 
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HARK!

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Neither of these things (if they're even true) has anything to do with the fact that he was summoned for his supposed "final citizenship interview" and instead arrested. I don't really care whether you think he should have been arrested or whether he deserved to be a citizen or even to be in the US - all of those are irrelevant to the point being made, which is that US immigration services are taking advantage of people who are following the laws and complying with our existing immigration system by summoning them for interviews or immigration court hearings and instead arresting them.
I don't view it as taking advantage of people. I view it as justice being served.
 
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I haven't yet read through this thread, but wanted to share my own personal opinion. I presume some people are up in arms over Trump's vendetta to clean up the disaster the past administration inflicted upon us

This is a very tricky topic. On the one hand, God detests lawlessness, and therefore we must not stand for it either. There are many very important reasons why we have immigration laws and procedures, and must enforce them.
On the other hand, God is no respecter of nations, and we were taught many times to treat foreigners with love, as we were once foreigners in Egypt.

So what do we do? How do we handle this while staying in accordance with God's wishes for ALL of us, not just US citizens?

We do what Jesus would do. We pursue justice. We enforce the laws. We enforce them with love and a soft heart, but enforce them we must.

Interested to see other's thought on this topic.
 
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HARK!

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No it doesn't. The OT didn't have ENTRY rules - just laws about how immigrants should live within Israel's borders.
(CLV) Lv 18:26
As for you, you will observe My statutes and My ordinances, and you shall not do any of these abhorrences, either the native or the sojourner sojourning in your midst

(CLV) Lv 18:27
for the men of the land who were before you have done all these abhorrences, and the land is unclean,

(CLV) Lv 18:28
so that the land shall not vomit you out when you defile it, just as it vomited out the nations which were before you.

(CLV) Dt 3:25
Let me cross over, I pray so I may see the good land that is across the Jordan, this good hill-country and the Lebanon.

(CLV) Dt 3:26
Yet Yahweh was enraged with me on account of you and did not hearken to me. Yahweh said to me: Let it be enough for you! Do not continue to speak to Me further on this matter
 
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HARK!

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True. But did you notice that Paul calls the Roman government "God's servants to do you good."
They maintain the law. But they also allowed exposure - the placing of full term babies in the woods to die by thirst or wild dogs!
My point? While Paul called on us to obey the law because chaos could bring down a civilisation - and Paul endorsed the Roman government as "God's servants" in this role - there is no way Paul would have endorsed letting babies be torn to bits by wild animals. That is - their role in protecting against chaos is good - but not every law they passed was good - and not everything they allowed was good.
I don't understand the relationship between "letting babies be torn to bits by wild animals" and removing criminals from our midst.
 
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No we don't.
I know this is petty, but it grinds my gears when people say we live in a democracy. We do not. We live in a constitutional republic. There are big differences, fundamentally and practically, between the two.
And it always seems to be democrats who make this mistake. Makes me wonder why that is.
 
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HARK!

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masked ICE goon-squads are starting to grab any 'ethnic looking' person off the street - American citizen or not
No they're not; unless you mean the ones that start fleeing frantically when ICE agents show up to arrest hardened criminals.
 
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Yes it is! Are you to obey God or the laws of men?

Well, both. It isn't either/or.

That's the difference! We live in a democracy.

We do not. We live in a constitutional republic, which is very different from mob rule Democracy.

But now that his masked ICE goon-squads are starting to grab any 'ethnic looking' person off the street - American citizen or not - what kind of society are you living in? Are you OK with tens of thousands of LEGAL American citizens being harassed like this?

Now you're just being dramatic lol
 
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