The Receptive Pulpit of Tongues

rocknanchor said:

Speaking of tongues, how would you paint today's Pentecostal pulpit, large or small amount of time dealing with speaking in tongues? Would your response likely include a frequent amount of time Church oversight deals with the subject? Should a Church mirror the frequency the Apostle Paul and others exhibited in the book of Acts?

Currently, I would like to be shown by someone to be in gross error by the good report of congregations who are so pumped by the subject they break out in applause whenever the Pastor sets the subject in motion! My experience to date cannot provide such a report.

What is a good or healthy frequency for a Pentecostal assembly to be thought friendly with the subject of tongues?

Click to expand...

I do not think it is taught or preached frequently at all, maybe not even once a year. I think most Pentecostal/Charismatic pastors though will have an altar call for those seeking the baptism of the spirit at least every once in awhile. Some too may teach this on an individual or small group level. I don't remember the exact stats, but the Assembly of God is getting far more converts than they are getting people baptized in the spirit. This likely is why the baptism of the spirit has been reduced I think over the past few decades. More of a dulution in the Congregation in most churches, which of course does not have to occur. This subject should be taught when there are some in the church that are fairly clueless as to how it works. I think that some pastors are weak in this area (They also seem weak in teaching the end times) Rather than address a topic that is is controversial to some, they will pass it over.
Alternatives I have seen include a special class, or at an indivdual or small group level. I do know at leat one church that covers it during a new members class, though it is not as important as many of the other basics of Christianity.
I personally like K.E. Hagin's teaching on tongues. While he is known as a faith teacher, his teaching including books on the gifts and tongues in particular show the subject was important to teach. I don't think all Rhema trained pastors though emphasize it as much.

rocknanchor said:

Has either your study or experience shown decades-past were times of AOG averages to feast on the baptism of the Holy Ghost?

Brother Hagin showed us here that there is no question to us of the importance, so much so, sometimes to lay low and let God exalt the ministry. Still, does not touch on those in the ministry who dabble to cast a negative tone an ultimate 'don't turn off the hungry soul'. I tire of describing those who can't bring themselves out of that 'cozy' spiritual condition they emit.

Click to expand...

That is a good word in two ways. It is a reminder that many of the earlier tongue talkers faced quite a bit of resistance. Now, few seem to mind. Secondly, we are reminded that it is all up to God for any believer, so there is no glory in self. In another thread I was reminded of the role of holiness in the operation of the gifts. It could very well be that the decline of tongues and the gifts are related to the condition of the believer's heart? This decline too seems to have reduced prayer meetings and often those prayer meetings don't have people really interceding in the spirit, like I witnessed in the 80s and even 90s.
All I can say is that I am glad to have been able to stay a bit in Asia off and on. Growth is great and I do not notice the doctrinal issues that I saw in the USA. I rarely see the freedom in tongues and the gifts that I witnessed in the wave of the 80s. That is a pretty hard standard to achieve because charismatic churches were exploding, the mega churches were just getting their starts.
So the healing revivalists in the 50s, carried the church to the gifts in the 80s, and seemingly the last two or three decades have been at best tepid. There has been some movement in churches like the Vineyard, and Bethel (Redding) or the Intl House of Prayer (Kansas City) Their doctrine and vision is somewhat different
Expansion has come from churches like the Intl House of Prayer with their 24/7 worship and movement in doctrine. This doctrine seems to cast of the rapture notions and to various extent replace it with Kingdom now/dominionist type of thinking. While they have been successful too, I think that God is and will further broaden out the renewal/revival. I think their movement could very well decline with Trump if things go poorly as some expect. The new emerging church is I think one of a diffusion of power, that God is not looking for great individual leaders, he is looking for a church that is about doing what is on his heart involving as many lay people that will heed His call. Of course my views can be subject to vast error but is there a feeling that something has to give to break us out of the current status quo? I'd love to hear other's vision for what they thinkwGod is leading them into in the next few years or so.

To answer more directly on the question were their more baptisms of the Holy Spirit in the past the answer is i believe so. I'll try and find those stats I mentioned. That the AOG noted that the baptism rate was very low seemed to be a real concern. (I was in a meeting where this was briefly reported). In a sense I think the AOG could be losing their branding. Some of the most successful AOG churches in the USA don't even use the AOG in their name. I went to one top 20 in attendance AOG churches in the USA and the months I was there I can't recall them ever mentioning AOG in a service. It seemed to repurpose itself into a community church and it was working as far as attendance goes. People were getting saved, praise God but I rarely saw any gifts in operation. Perhaps there is a plan for this though, I can't judge it to be wrong, but we have seen lots of denominations change over the years. Some ministers too have left the AOG, some for being restrained (Hagin comes to mind) and perhaps some for being too liberal?

rocknanchor said:

Speaking of tongues, how would you paint today's Pentecostal pulpit, large or small amount of time dealing with speaking in tongues? Would your response likely include a frequent amount of time Church oversight deals with the subject? Should a Church mirror the frequency the Apostle Paul and others exhibited in the book of Acts?

Currently, I would like to be shown by someone to be in gross error by the good report of congregations who are so pumped by the subject they break out in applause whenever the Pastor sets the subject in motion! My experience to date cannot provide such a report.

What is a good or healthy frequency for a Pentecostal assembly to be thought friendly with the subject of tongues?

Click to expand...

I found the stats that I mentioned basically quoted in an article. It is worse than I thought as far as tongues go. Great though on new attendance. The margin of newcomers to the church (many of course are already born again) to those that speak in tongues is 9 reported to be 9 to 1. If that is true in ten years, a church would have 90 come into the church while 10 of those will speak in tongues. So a lot of room for growth there, otherwise if the ratio holds it will nearly cease to be a Pentecostal church. Some are like that already. I suspect though that the numbers vary greatly from church to church. I am sure that some churches do have those new people being baptized in the spirit, while others do not stress tongues at all and get none or few people being baptized in the spirit.
So should tongues be preached? Yes, but the pastor and church body has to "desire earnestly" the spiritual gifts themselves, and understand them more to be able to really allow the Holy Spirit to help with others. Alternatively, those in the pews who exercise their prayer language and are disappointed in a church's progress in this area may end up gravitating to more charismatic bodies.

Here is an excerpt from the article and the link.

"It is a foundational experience in the life of every Pentecostal believer. Yet there is evidence that Spirit baptism is in decline in the Assemblies of God.

Worship service attendance grew by 9% from 2009–19, AG (USA) statistics reveal. Yet the number of Spirit baptisms during that period was basically flat (1% growth).

Additionally, data from the Acts 2 Journey shows that from 2016–19, most conversions in the Fellowship took place in larger churches (200+ attenders). However, larger churches also experienced a 13% decline in Spirit baptisms during that time.

These figures suggest that although we are successfully leading people to Christ, we are falling behind in leading adherents into Spirit baptism. The question is, what can we do about it?"

The article continues on the importance of tongues and offers some suggestions.