Is the Rapture credible?

armchairscholar · May 3, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
The concept of the rapture is one that's often discussed in Christian theology, particularly among certain Protestant denominations. It refers to a belief that faithful Christians will be taken up to heaven before a period of tribulation on Earth. This idea is primarily derived from a few key passages in the New Testament, though interpretations vary widely.

One of the main scriptures cited to support the belief in a rapture is 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, which describes how "the dead in Christ will rise first" and how believers "will be caught up together... to meet the Lord in the air." The phrase "caught up" is often translated from the Greek word "harpazo," which means to seize or snatch away, and this is where the term "rapture" originates.

Another passage frequently mentioned is 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, which speaks of a mystery where believers will be changed "in the twinkling of an eye" at the last trumpet. These verses have been interpreted as describing an instantaneous transformation and ascension of believers.

However, it's worth noting that the exact term "rapture" does not appear in the Bible, and the belief in a rapture as it's commonly understood today largely stems from interpretations popularized in the 19th and 20th centuries, especially through dispensationalist theology. Other Christians interpret these passages differently and may view them as metaphorical or as describing events at Christ's second coming.

Whether the rapture has a credible scriptural basis depends on one's theological perspective and how these passages are interpreted. Some believers see it as a clear promise, while others consider it a more modern doctrinal development.

The rapture doctrine, as understood in modern Christian eschatology, is a relatively recent theological concept. It emerged prominently in the 1830s, largely attributed to the teachings of John Nelson Darby, a British evangelist and theologian. Darby developed the idea as part of dispensational premillennialism, which interprets biblical prophecies as events yet to occur [Rapture - Wikipedia] [Chapter 17: The Rapture Theory - Its Surprising Origin].

The term "rapture" itself is derived from the Latin word raptura, meaning "to seize" or "to carry off," and is linked to the Greek word harpazo found in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which describes believers being "caught up" to meet Christ in the air. Darby's interpretation distinguished the rapture from the second coming of Christ, proposing that the rapture would precede a seven-year tribulation period, followed by Christ's return and the establishment of a millennial kingdom[Rapture - Wikipedia].

While the rapture doctrine gained traction among certain evangelical groups, particularly in the United States, it is not universally accepted across Christian denominations. Many interpret the aerial gathering described in 1 Thessalonians 4 as symbolic of the elect joining Christ in heaven after his second coming, without the extended tribulation period [The Rapture | Belief, Definition, & Predictions | Britannica].

I love how you laid out the scriptures and history behind it. You’re spot-on that 1 Thessalonians 4 and 1 Corinthians 15 are the big go-to verses for this belief. It’s fascinating to see how folks interpret those passages—some see a literal snatch-up to heaven, while others lean toward a more symbolic view tied to Jesus’ return. The historical angle with Darby is super interesting too; it really shows how ideas can take off in certain times and places.

I think what strikes me most is how much this topic stirs up discussion among believers. It’s like a reminder that we’re all wrestling with what God’s plan looks like, especially when it comes to the end times. For me, it’s less about pinning down the exact timeline and more about living ready for whatever God has in store.

The Liturgist · May 3, 2025

Xeno.of.athens said:
1000 years is likely using 1000 as a very very long time.

That was the consensus of the 150 holy fathers at the Council of Constantinople and of all subsequent Orthodox, Catholic, Lutheran and Anglican theologians and most Methodists, with some exceptions (for example, the Pre-millenial Dispensationalist King James Study Bible had predominantly Baptists and Presbyterians with a single member of the United Methodist Church back before the hostile takeover of the UMC by a minority of its members under the excuse of the pandemic in 2020-2022.

The Liturgist · May 3, 2025

armchairscholar said:
For me, it’s less about pinning down the exact timeline and more about living ready for whatever God has in store.

Indeed, what many premillenial dispensationalists fascinated with the writings of John Nelson Darby, or Hal Lindsay, or books like Left Behind, or other chiliastic Restorationist traditions are missing, is that regardless of when Christ returns, whether we die before then or not, we still face his judgement on equal terms.

Dan Perez · Jul 29, 2025

The Liturgist said:
Indeed, what many premillenial dispensationalists fascinated with the writings of John Nelson Darby, or Hal Lindsay, or books like Left Behind, or other chiliastic Restorationist traditions are missing, is that regardless of when Christ returns, whether we die before then or not, we still face his judgement on equal terms.

And the correct Greeks for being Caught up. /. HARPAZO. in 1 THESS 4:17 , and the Greek word !

And the Greek word COMING / PAROUSIA. in 2 Thess 2:1 ''

And in Gal 1:4 , RESCUE // EXAIREO

and there are more !!

And there is no Greek word for Rapure in. the Greek Text !!

dan p

Clare73 · Jul 30, 2025

Dan Perez said:
And the correct Greeks for being Caught up. /. HARPAZO. in 1 THESS 4:17 , and the Greek word !

And the Greek word COMING / PAROUSIA. in 2 Thess 2:1 ''

And in Gal 1:4 , RESCUE // EXAIREO

and there are more !!

And there is no Greek word for Rapure in. the Greek Text !!

dan p

"Rapture" comes from the Latin translation of the Bible where the Greek harpazo is translated "rapturo."

Xeno.of.athens · Jul 30, 2025

Clare73 said:
"Rapture" comes from the Latin translation of the Bible where the Greek harpazo is translated "rapturo."

From a doctrinal standpoint, the Catholic Church does not teach a “rapture” in the sense popularised in some evangelical theology—i.e., a secret or pre-tribulational snatching away of believers before a period of tribulation.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC) affirms a single, visible Second Coming of Christ at the end of time, accompanied by the resurrection of the dead and the final judgment (CCC 675–677).
The notion of a two-phase return of Christ—first to “rapture” the Church, then later to judge—is absent from Catholic dogma and considered a theological innovation not rooted in Sacred Tradition or Magisterial teaching.
Catholic eschatology interprets harpazo in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 as part of the general resurrection and final glorification of the faithful, not as a separate event preceding tribulation.

Linguistic Clarification

The Greek word ἁρπάζω (harpazo) in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is correctly translated in the Latin Vulgate as rapiemur (“we shall be caught up”).
The Latin verb rapio (from which rapiemur and rapturo derive) does mean “to seize” or “snatch away.”
The English word rapture is etymologically derived from this Latin root, but “rapturo” is not the actual word used in the Vulgate. The correct form is rapiemur, first person plural future passive indicative.

So, your statement gestures toward a real linguistic connection, it inaccurately cites rapturo as the Vulgate term.

Dale · Jul 30, 2025

Clare73 said:
"Rapture" comes from the Latin translation of the Bible where the Greek harpazo is translated "rapturo."

No verse in the Bible says anything about God taking Christians off the earth while political events are still taking place.

Clare73 · Jul 31, 2025

Dale said:
No verse in the Bible says anything about God taking Christians off the earth while political events are still taking place.

Relevance?. . .no verse in the Bible says anything about having ten toes.

1 Th 4:16-17 presents the catching up ("rapture") of the saints at the resurrection.

Dan Perez · Aug 4, 2025

Dale said:
No verse in the Bible says anything about God taking Christians off the earth while political events are still taking place.

And 1 Thess 4:17. says , Then. we the LIVING ONES , the Surviving ones. will be Caught Away at the same time with them in

CLOUDS for a MEETING. of the Lord into the AIR and so we will at ALL times be with the Lord

And there are more verse concerning. of Christ coming for the Body of Christ , like Gal 1:4

Just asking , where is your verse ?

dan p

Adventist Dissident · Aug 5, 2025

Dan Perez said:
And 1 Thess 4:17. says , Then. we the LIVING ONES , the Surviving ones. will be Caught Away at the same time with them in

CLOUDS for a MEETING. of the Lord into the AIR and so we will at ALL times be with the Lord

And there are more verse concerning. of Christ coming for the Body of Christ , like Gal 1:4

Just asking , where is your verse ?

dan p

There is a part where we go to heaven. The marriage Supper of the Lamb. What is this called.?
There is a part where we come back with Him and rule the earth - This is the 2nd coming. What is that other thing called?

Dale · Aug 7, 2025

Dan Perez said:
And those that IMITATE , Paul , where he wrote 1 THESS 4 : 17 , CAUGHT AWAY // HARPAZO , FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE

In 1 THESS 3: 13 THE WORD COMING // PAROUSIA

In 2 Thess 2:1 we see the word COMING again !!

In 2 thess 3 WE see the word DEPARTURE // APOSTASIA

And in verse 6 , we see that the GRACE BELIEVERS that the ONE Hindering in order for for him to be revealed

in HIS time , , meaning the antichrist .

This means that ONLY GRACE BELIEVERS have known that we disbelieve and known for over 2000 years , because

many so called saved are not being IMITATORS of the APOSTLE Paul as written in 1 Cor 11:1

And many believe that WATER BAPTISM does save nor GOOD WORKS

dan p

I don't see the point of lifting a word out of a verse of the Bible and then commenting on one word. You are ignoring the context.

Dan Perez · Monday at 4:55 PM

Dale said:
I don't see the point of lifting a word out of a verse of the Bible and then commenting on one word. You are ignoring the context.

And what word are you speaking about and what verse ??

dan p

Dale · Tuesday at 3:43 PM

Dan Perez said:
And what word are you speaking about and what verse ??

dan p

You endlessly list words without drawing any conclusions from them. I don't get it.

RileyG · Wednesday at 2:19 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
Premillennialism is a man made doctrine. A Millennium on earth is a man made doctrine. A rapture is merely Paul easing the minds of first century Christians on the subject of those who have died before them. Are they saved? He tells them they would rise first and those who are alive will join them in the air to meet Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Very poetic! But not meant to be a doctrine by any means.
Blessings

Well said, my sister in Christ!

Xeno.of.athens · Wednesday at 3:35 PM

Ivan Hlavanda said:
This is simply not true. You can easily google it.

I'm a pre-trib rapture believer. I do understand the argumants against the rapture, but the rapture being a 19th centrury innovation is not one of them.

Catholics are called to assent to the Church’s definitive teaching that there will be one visible return of Christ in glory at the end of time, coinciding with the general resurrection and final judgement (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church §§668–682). The notion of a secret or pre-tribulational rapture, wherein believers are taken up prior to a period of tribulation, is incompatible with this eschatological framework and lacks foundation in Sacred Tradition and the unanimous witness of the Church Fathers. While the historical novelty of the rapture theory—popularised in the 19th century by John Nelson Darby—is not, in itself, a dogmatic refutation, it does underscore its absence from the apostolic deposit of faith and its divergence from the Church’s consistent interpretation of Scripture, particularly regarding passages such as 1 Thessalonians 4:16–17 and Matthew 24:29–31, which the Church reads in light of Christ’s singular Parousia.

1Tonne · Wednesday at 3:46 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
Premillennialism is a man made doctrine. A Millennium on earth is a man made doctrine. A rapture is merely Paul easing the minds of first century Christians on the subject of those who have died before them. Are they saved? He tells them they would rise first and those who are alive will join them in the air to meet Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Very poetic! But not meant to be a doctrine by any means.
Blessings

While I do not believe in a rapture before the end of the age, I do not think that you can say 100% that a millennial reign on earth is manmade. If someone chooses to believe in Amillennialism, then their view of the millennial reign is that Christ is reigning spiritually right now. While another person may say that the millennial reign is a literal reigning on earth for 1000 years. But both these views come from a preconceived understanding. Each person believes themselves to be correct and that the other person's viewpoint is a man-made doctrine.

Xeno.of.athens said:
Catholics are called to assent to the Church’s definitive teaching

Some say we should listen to the teaching of the Catholic Church. But the truth is, any church is made up of people, and people make mistakes. That’s why we must lift up the teaching of Jesus Christ, not the traditions of men.
Jesus warned: “In vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” (Mark 7:7).
History shows where the Catholic Church has erred:

Salvation by works and sacraments, rather than by grace through faith alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).
Praying to Mary and the saints, though Scripture says there is “one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).
The Pope declared infallible, though the Bible says “let God be true but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4).

Churches and leaders can fail. But Jesus never fails. He is “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6). Let’s measure every teaching against His Word, and hold fast to Him above all.

1Tonne · Wednesday at 4:42 PM

Xeno.of.athens said:
Catholics are called to assent to the Church’s definitive teaching that there will be one visible return of Christ in glory at the end of time, coinciding with the general resurrection and final judgement (cf. Catechism of the Catholic Church §§668–682).

Even though I made my previous statement, I do think that this is mostly correct.
My personal view is that at the end of the age (not the end of time), Jesus will return in glory, not with all the believers, but with those who have died for the testimony of Him (Rev 20:4-6), and they will reign for 1000 years. Then at the end of time, we will all meet with Jesus in the clouds and go to eternal judgment.

Aaron112 · Wednesday at 4:49 PM

Dale said:
You endlessly list words without drawing any conclusions from them. I don't get it.

Noted this years ago, and asked a few times in posts, but could never get an honest satisfactory reason it seemed so I gave up. I don't get it either. So , could it be experimental ai being used ? of some sort ? or just a totally different way of thinking for some reason not disclosed ?

Xeno.of.athens · Wednesday at 9:04 PM

1Tonne said:
Some say we should listen to the teaching of the Catholic Church. But the truth is, any church is made up of people, and people make mistakes. That’s why we must lift up the teaching of Jesus Christ, not the traditions of men.
Jesus warned: “In vain they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the commandments of men” (Mark 7:7).
History shows where the Catholic Church has erred:

Salvation by works and sacraments, rather than by grace through faith alone (Ephesians 2:8–9).

Praying to Mary and the saints, though Scripture says there is “one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Timothy 2:5).

The Pope declared infallible, though the Bible says “let God be true but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4).

Churches and leaders can fail. But Jesus never fails. He is “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6). Let’s measure every teaching against His Word, and hold fast to Him above all.

Your critique rightly centres Christ as the sole Redeemer (John 14:6), yet it misrepresents Catholic doctrine. The Church teaches that salvation is by grace alone, received through faith and ordinarily mediated by sacraments instituted by Christ—not by human works (Ephesians 2:8–9; CCC §§1987–2010). Intercession of saints does not contradict Christ’s unique mediation (1 Timothy 2:5), but reflects the communion of believers (Revelation 5:8; James 5:16; CCC §971). Papal infallibility, narrowly defined, safeguards doctrine when the Pope speaks ex cathedra on faith or morals (CCC §891; Vatican I, Pastor Aeternus, 1870), and does not imply personal impeccability.

Moreover, Sacred Tradition is not a “commandment of men” (Mark 7:7), but the living transmission of Christ’s teaching (2 Thessalonians 2:15; CCC §§78, 97). The Church, founded by Christ and guided by the Holy Spirit (Matthew 16:18; John 14:26), remains the “pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Timothy 3:15). To reject her authority is to risk severing oneself from the fullness of the Gospel she preserves.

Xeno.of.athens · Wednesday at 9:11 PM

1Tonne said:
Even though I made my previous statement, I do think that this is mostly correct.
My personal view is that at the end of the age (not the end of time), Jesus will return in glory, not with all the believers, but with those who have died for the testimony of Him (Rev 20:4-6), and they will reign for 1000 years. Then at the end of time, we will all meet with Jesus in the clouds and go to eternal judgment.

Your statement reflects a sincere engagement with eschatological themes, yet it diverges from Catholic doctrine in several key respects. The Church teaches that Christ will return in glory at the end of time, not merely at the "end of the age," and that this Second Coming will be definitive, ushering in the resurrection of the dead, the final judgement, and the fulfilment of the Kingdom of God (Catechism of the Catholic Church [CCC], §§675–682). The notion of a literal 1,000-year reign of Christ with martyrs, as described in Revelation 20:4–6, has been interpreted symbolically by the Church and is not affirmed as a future historical epoch. The Church rejects millenarianism in all its forms, including the idea of a temporal messianic kingdom prior to the final judgement (CCC §676).

Furthermore, the Catholic understanding of the resurrection and judgement is universal: all the dead will rise, both the righteous and the wicked, and each will be judged according to their deeds (John 5:28–29; CCC §§1038–1041). The imagery of meeting Christ "in the clouds" (cf. 1 Thessalonians 4:17) is understood as a metaphor for the final gathering of the faithful, not a separate event preceding judgement. You are encouraged to read these passages within the broader context of the Church’s magisterial teaching, which safeguards both the mystery and the unity of God’s salvific plan.

Is the Rapture credible?

Active Member

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Traditional Liturgical Christian

Well-Known Member

Blood-bought

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

Senior Veteran

Blood-bought

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Veteran

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

I will give you the keys of the Kingdom of heaven.

Similar threads