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Proof that The Seven Trumpets and Seven Bowls of Revelation are Happening Concurrently

Garrett.theo

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Thanks for your opinion on that, but you seem to have the impression that you're stating facts here and thinking that you're my teacher about these things. No. I am fully convinced that not just the trumpets and vials are parallel, but the seals, also. For example, it fits with my Amillennial view that it talks about a little season of time being left after the fifth seal is opened because I believe Satan's little season begins at that point. I see the description of the fifth trumpet with the bottomless pit being opened at that point, which lines up with Satan being loosed from the bottomless pit, in my opinion. So, again, thanks for sharing your opinions, but I don't really care for how you are talking as if I'm your student and you're my teacher.

I don't view myself as your teacher, nor do I view you as my student. The reality is that everybody is everybody's teacher--in that we can all learn from one another. I browse and read a lot of the threads/posts here on these sub-forums and I regularly see discussions derail and people belittling one another. As a result, the opportunity for edification becomes nearly nonexistent.

My desire is for people to grow in their understanding of scripture, which is why I aim to steer-clear of that bad behavior and approach topics with scripture and wisdom (i.e., intellect--representing the correct use of knowledge). Naturally, it makes sense then, that when I'm confronted with opposing ideas or false narratives, I'd challenge those arguments intellectually.

I'm sorry if my responses made you feel belittled, that's never my intention. Nonetheless, I'm not going to change my vernacular or approach in my discussions with people on this sub forum as that would be inauthentic of me.
 
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Douggg

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Technically, you're right that you didn't say the seventh seal is opened before the other six seals, because you actually have it displayed in your chart that it is opened during the middle of the second seal--thus being opened before the third, forth, fifth, and sixth seals!
Garrett, you are talking about the seals being opened. Which, differently, I am charting the seal events once each seal is opened.

I re-did the chart and added the word "events" below each seal word, to avoid that confusing. So here is the updated chart....

the seven seals g.jpg
 
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Douggg

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Thanks for the suggestion, I will look into Corel Paintshop. I'm very picky when it comes to vector-based graphic design programs
I have been using Corel Paintshop for many, many years. As with all graphics programs, there is a learning curve. It is mostly about making "layers" which you can move around, manipulate, stack on top each other, and eventually save as a JPEG file, which you can easily post in a discussion forum thread.

Corel Paintshop Pro 2023 Ultimate
 
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Garrett.theo

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Garrett, you are talking about the seals being opened. Which, differently, I am charting the seal events once each seal is opened.

I re-did the chart and added the word "events" below each seal word, to avoid that confusing. So here is the updated chart....

View attachment 368299

We're simply going to have to agree to disagree. But thanks for sharing your charts on end-time events--there were some I haven't seen before!



Since I've begun to look into vector-based graphic design software again, I'll make sure that Corel Paintshop is on my list. One thing's for certain, I like the idea of owning it outright and not having to pay for a subscription!
 
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Douggg

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Since I've begun to look into vector-based graphic design software again, I'll make sure that Corel Paintshop is on my list. One thing's for certain, I like the idea of owning it outright and not having to pay for a subscription!
Yes, once you buy it, there are no subscription fees.

If you get a Corel Paintshop program, let me know. I may be able to give you some pointers that will speed up the learning curve.
 
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Douggg

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We're simply going to have to agree to disagree. But thanks for sharing your charts on end-time events--there were some I haven't seen before!
Here is another chart I made years ago, that has all of the horsemen on it and time frames. I call the chart, the Seven Years Chart.

Just follow the red line, beginning in the upper left corner, to the end in the lower right hand corner.

The 7 years 2.jpg
 
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tranquil

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In a previous thread of mine (More Proof of a Post-Tribulation Rapture [Post #1]) I not only demonstrated how the seventh trumpet and bowl are concurrent events, but I also used that information to prove that the rapture of believers takes place at the end of The Great Tribulation--when Jesus returns! While it was helpful in piecing together some of the order of end-time events, I figured this connection wouldn't be complete unless I also demonstrated that the previous six trumpets and bowls are connected concurrently, as well.

With the previous thread having our baseline logic for connecting the seventh trumpet and bowl, it makes sense then that we should examine their previous counterparts with an open mind that they, too, may also be concurrent! It helps to view these visions side-by-side while examining their text, so below I created a table doing just that. Additionally, to make things easier, I even included some highlights for emphasis on important areas.

Here, we'll see that the red text shows us how these visions are connected, while the blue text highlights areas that seem contradictory.

Trumpets​
Bowls​
“The seventh angel sounded his trumpet,… Then God’s temple in heaven was opened, and within his temple was seen the ark of his covenant. And there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder, an earthquake and a severe hailstorm.– Revelation 11:15,19​
“The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!” Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake… From the sky huge hailstones, each weighing about a hundred pounds, fell on people.” – Revelation 16:17-18,21​
“The sixth angel sounded his trumpet, and I heard a voice coming from the four horns of the golden altar that is before God. It said to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, ‘Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates.’ And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind.– Revelation 9:13-15​
“The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty. – Revelation 16:12-14​
“The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and… The sun and sky were darkenedlocusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes.” – Revelation 9:1-5​
“The fifth angel poured out his bowl on the throne of the beast, and its kingdom was plunged into darkness. People gnawed their tongues in agony…” – Revelation 16:10​
“The fourth angel sounded his trumpet, and a third of the sun was struck, a third of the moon, and a third of the stars, so that a third of them turned dark. A third of the day was without light, and also a third of the night.” – Revelation 8:12​
“The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire.” – Revelation 16:8​
“The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star… fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of waterA third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter.” – Revelation 8:10-11​
“The third angel poured out his bowl on the rivers and springs of water, and they became blood. – Revelation 16:4​
“The second angel sounded his trumpet, and something like a huge mountain, all ablaze, was thrown into the sea. A third of the sea turned into blood, a third of the living creatures in the sea died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. – Revelation 8:8-9​
“The second angel poured out his bowl on the sea, and it turned into blood like that of a dead person, and every living thing in the sea died. – Revelation 16:3​
“The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up. – Revelation 8:7​
“The first angel went and poured out his bowl on the land, and ugly, festering sores broke out on the people who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image.” – Revelation 16:2​


Understandably, most people separate these judgements as being unrelated to one another due to the details highlighted in blue. But what if the blue text has a different purpose than just highlighting details that seem contradictory to each other when these visions are cross-analyzed?

If you look back at the fifth judgment in the series, we learn that when we line these visions up sequentially, the details of one are there to compliment the other. Which, in turn, creates a fuller picture to demonstrate what's happening. With this in mind, it would make sense then to determine that the reason why there is a difference of accounts between these visions is because it's there to emphasize a difference of perspective! This is the only logical reason as to why these visions would be concurrent yet expound on contrasting details.

But what perspective would that be, and what about the fact that the trumpets use the term "a third" to describe the effects of the plagues while the bowls describe their effect to the complete/full extent?

The answer to both of these questions can be found in Revelation 12:7–9,4a, which reads:



Here, we see that the term “a third” is used to describe the angels who followed Satan and fought against God’s divine will. So, with this in mind, when we see the same terminology used across the trumpets, what we’re being told is that these judgments are only affecting the wicked, while in contrast, God’s people are protected!

With this passage providing both biblical and logical reasoning as to how these visions are sequentially concurrent yet display signs that they're disjoint in nature, we learn that the trumpets show us the end-time plagues (i.e., God's wrath) from the perspective of the righteous, while the bowls show it to us from the perspective of the wicked.

As a result, we also learn that the bowls of God's wrath represent (or depict) God’s judgment on the wicked, while the trumpets represent (or depict) God’s divine protection for His people! Thus, keeping with scripture that states:
The Trumpets are distinct and occur before the 7 bowls of wrath. In general, Revelation proceeds in sequential order.

Regarding the 'third portion' of the first four Trumpets. You rightly connect the wicked being killed in conjunction with the third portion, but there are 2 different 'third portion' events:

Zech 13:7 Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, against the man who is My Companion, declares the LORD of Hosts. Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn My hand against the little ones. 8And in all the land, declares the LORD,
two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver​
and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”​

'2/3' of the land is killed.

1/3 is killed at the 6th Trumpet portion at Rev 9:13-21.

The 2nd 1/3 is killed at the 7th Trumpet with the 7 bowls of wrath.

How are God's people 'refined like silver and tested as gold'? Not with a 'whisked away rapture' - but by having to be confronted with the choosing of the mark of the beast or the refusal thereof (which occurs at the 7th Trumpet).

That is how God's people are 'gathered'.

There are 2 different 'antichrists': Assyria & Tyre. The Assyrian doesn't confirm the covenant, the ruler of Tyre does. Tyre breaks the covenant and hands over the daily sacrifices to the Assyrian.

At the start of the Trumpets, it is the Assyrian who attacks Israel/ Mystery Babylon, then 5 months later places the abomination (at the 6th Trumpet).

This abomination is ended by Tyre 30 days later when he confirms the covenant (Tyre is the mighty angel of Rev 10).

1260 days later, at the 7th Trumpet, Tyre breaks the covenant and subsequently hands over his throne to the Assyrian. Same as in Ezek 44:

6And say to the rebellious house, to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: O house of Israel, enough of all your abominations, 7in admitting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, to be in my sanctuary, profaning my temple, when you offer to me my food, the fat and the blood. You have broken my covenant, in addition to all your abominations. 8And you have not kept charge of my holy things, but you have set others to keep my charge for you in my sanctuary.​
Tyre, who has control over the saints for 1260 days (same as time, times, half time of Dan 7:25) (same time as 1260 days of the 2 witnesses), then hands over control to the Assyrian who had just placed the abomination 1290 days prior (this happens at the 7th Trumpet).

Roughly speaking, Tyre (the Dan 7 Little Horn) equals the Catholic's 'Great Monarch' & the Assyrian equals Illuminati Freemasonry. It is similar to the dichotomy of left versus right where both sides are evil and justify their moral standings by 'not being the other guy'.

new Jim file.jpg
new Jim file.jpg
 
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Douggg

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The Trumpets are distinct and occur before the 7 bowls of wrath. In general, Revelation proceeds in sequential order.

Regarding the 'third portion' of the first four Trumpets. You rightly connect the wicked being killed in conjunction with the third portion, but there are 2 different 'third portion' events:

Zech 13:7 Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, against the man who is My Companion, declares the LORD of Hosts. Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn My hand against the little ones. 8And in all the land, declares the LORD,
two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver​
and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”​

'2/3' of the land is killed.

1/3 is killed at the 6th Trumpet portion at Rev 9:13-21.

The 2nd 1/3 is killed at the 7th Trumpet with the 7 bowls of wrath.

How are God's people 'refined like silver and tested as gold'? Not with a 'whisked away rapture' - but by having to be confronted with the choosing of the mark of the beast or the refusal thereof (which occurs at the 7th Trumpet).

That is how God's people are 'gathered'.

There are 2 different 'antichrists': Assyria & Tyre. The Assyrian doesn't confirm the covenant, the ruler of Tyre does. Tyre breaks the covenant and hands over the daily sacrifices to the Assyrian.

At the start of the Trumpets, it is the Assyrian who attacks Israel/ Mystery Babylon, then 5 months later places the abomination (at the 6th Trumpet).

This abomination is ended by Tyre 30 days later when he confirms the covenant (Tyre is the mighty angel of Rev 10).

1260 days later, at the 7th Trumpet, Tyre breaks the covenant and subsequently hands over his throne to the Assyrian. Same as in Ezek 44:

6And say to the rebellious house, to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: O house of Israel, enough of all your abominations, 7in admitting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, to be in my sanctuary, profaning my temple, when you offer to me my food, the fat and the blood. You have broken my covenant, in addition to all your abominations. 8And you have not kept charge of my holy things, but you have set others to keep my charge for you in my sanctuary.​
Tyre, who has control over the saints for 1260 days (same as time, times, half time of Dan 7:25) (same time as 1260 days of the 2 witnesses), then hands over control to the Assyrian who had just placed the abomination 1290 days prior (this happens at the 7th Trumpet).

Roughly speaking, Tyre (the Dan 7 Little Horn) equals the Catholic's 'Great Monarch' & the Assyrian equals Illuminati Freemasonry. It is similar to the dichotomy of left versus right where both sides are evil and justify their moral standings by 'not being the other guy'.

View attachment 368317View attachment 368317
tranquil,

Instead of what you posted, make charts that have a clear beginning and a clear ending. Such as beginning with Daniel 9:27, or day 1, and ending with Jesus's return day. The end of the chart should always be Jesus's return day.

Such as...

7 years Revelation 12.jpg



2300 days 3.jpg
 
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Garrett.theo

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The Trumpets are distinct and occur before the 7 bowls of wrath. In general, Revelation proceeds in sequential order.

Regarding the 'third portion' of the first four Trumpets. You rightly connect the wicked being killed in conjunction with the third portion, but there are 2 different 'third portion' events:

Zech 13:7 Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd, against the man who is My Companion, declares the LORD of Hosts. Strike the Shepherd, and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn My hand against the little ones. 8And in all the land, declares the LORD,
two-thirds will be cut off and perish, but a third will be left in it. 9This third I will bring through the fire; I will refine them like silver​
and test them like gold. They will call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’ ”​

'2/3' of the land is killed.

1/3 is killed at the 6th Trumpet portion at Rev 9:13-21.

The 2nd 1/3 is killed at the 7th Trumpet with the 7 bowls of wrath.

How are God's people 'refined like silver and tested as gold'? Not with a 'whisked away rapture' - but by having to be confronted with the choosing of the mark of the beast or the refusal thereof (which occurs at the 7th Trumpet).

That is how God's people are 'gathered'.

There are 2 different 'antichrists': Assyria & Tyre. The Assyrian doesn't confirm the covenant, the ruler of Tyre does. Tyre breaks the covenant and hands over the daily sacrifices to the Assyrian.

At the start of the Trumpets, it is the Assyrian who attacks Israel/ Mystery Babylon, then 5 months later places the abomination (at the 6th Trumpet).

This abomination is ended by Tyre 30 days later when he confirms the covenant (Tyre is the mighty angel of Rev 10).

1260 days later, at the 7th Trumpet, Tyre breaks the covenant and subsequently hands over his throne to the Assyrian. Same as in Ezek 44:

6And say to the rebellious house, to the house of Israel, Thus says the Lord God: O house of Israel, enough of all your abominations, 7in admitting foreigners, uncircumcised in heart and flesh, to be in my sanctuary, profaning my temple, when you offer to me my food, the fat and the blood. You have broken my covenant, in addition to all your abominations. 8And you have not kept charge of my holy things, but you have set others to keep my charge for you in my sanctuary.​
Tyre, who has control over the saints for 1260 days (same as time, times, half time of Dan 7:25) (same time as 1260 days of the 2 witnesses), then hands over control to the Assyrian who had just placed the abomination 1290 days prior (this happens at the 7th Trumpet).

Roughly speaking, Tyre (the Dan 7 Little Horn) equals the Catholic's 'Great Monarch' & the Assyrian equals Illuminati Freemasonry. It is similar to the dichotomy of left versus right where both sides are evil and justify their moral standings by 'not being the other guy'.

View attachment 368317View attachment 368317


We're able to confidently conclude that the trumpets and bowls of Revelation are sequentially concurrent with one another on the basis of the deductive reasoning used to connect them!

Deductive reasoning is a logical process where you start with a general statement or premise and then draw a specific conclusion based on that premise. It moves from the general to the particular, guaranteeing that if the premises are true, the conclusion must also be true.

As it relates to this study, our premise is that the trumpets and bowls are happening concurrently with one another which is based on the fact that each sequential vision shares patterned language with their counterpart, as highlighted in red in post #1 of this thread. If this is the case, then we must ask ourselves, why then do their accounts differ at times, as highlighted in blue in post #1 of this thread?

Upon closer inspection (e.g., the fifth plague) we learn that the details of one vision are there to expound on the details of the other when they're aligned sequentially. This not only further supports the premise that the trumpets and bowls are happening concurrently, but it helps us to begin to make sense of why these set of visions differ in details from one another. The only reasonable answer would be that these two sets of visions are describing details from two different perspectives!

Now, what would these two perspectives be? For one, we know that in the end-times there are only two groups of people. Those who have the mark of the Beast (i.e., the wicked) and those who belong to God (i.e., the righteous). We also know that as God pours out His wrath on the wicked, His people are miraculously protected! So, if these set of visions are, in fact, connected it would make sense that these elements are seen between them!

It isn't until we learn from Revelation 12:7–9,4a that the term "a third" is there to refer to those who are opposed to God and follow after Satan. When we apply this understanding to the trumpets we learn that when we see these plagues are only affecting "a third" of the earth, what we're being told is that they're are only affecting the wicked while in contrast God's people are protected. As a result, the trumpets depict the end-time plagues from the perspective of the righteous, highlighting God's protection for His people. While the bowls depict the end-time plagues from the perspective of the wicked, as demonstrated by the full/whole expression of the effectiveness of the plagues.
 
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truthuprootsevil

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I believe we are close to the return of Christ, closer than we think.

I believe the seven trumpets, the seven seals, the seven bowls, the seven veils, work together simultaneously.

I believe that in each, the six angel has sounded, and living on this planet is and will continue to go from bad to worse.

I see all the events written of unfolding. The Bible doesn't tell us the amount of time between the opening or soundings of the events, but it's been over 2,000 years to get to this point, so how long will we be living in the openings and soundings of the six angels?
 
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