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Putin and Trump meet in Alaska on Ukraine -- no results, meeting ends early, no questions taken at presser

wing2000

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Trump had promised 'severe consequences' to Putin if a ceasefire wasn't reached

....he conceded the demand he made just two weeks ago.

...so much for the sanctions on India for importing Russian oil.
...so much for the threats against any other country doing the same.

TACO. And Putin knows it.
 
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Valletta

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....he conceded the demand he made just two weeks ago.

...so much for the sanctions on India for importing Russian oil.
...so much for the threats against any other country doing the same.

TACO. And Putin knows it.
 
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comana

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Nithavela

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1*wnfMlpZV1CdZcxCuXmyVMQ.png
 
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Vambram

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ThatRobGuy

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That's not what I see happening at all. Russia is the oppressor here and Ukraine is the oppressed so objectively speaking there is no neutral position due to this fact.
If a person is acting as a mediator and trying to broker a deal, "neutrality" in the sense I was referring to it, refers to not giving either side the impression that the mediator is on the other guy's side.

I mentioned the tug-o-war between that concept, and pragmatism.


Pragmatism dictates that there's zero upside in Trump doing anything that would cause Putin to leave the negotiating table.

Unless the US is willing to put boots on the ground, then Russia is the team that we'll need verbally placate just a bit to make sure they don't leave the table.

Putin can walk away from the table tomorrow, shut down all lines of communication with the West, and continue terrorizing Ukraine.


Think of it as a hostage situation.

When the negotiator is trying to ease the situation, do they come out and publicly deride and bash the hostage taker, and go on an on about how the hostages are morally better than the hostage taker? Or do they try to built a report, and handle the hostage taker with some kid gloves to a degree to keep them on the line?


Hence the reason I said that it's a balance between pragmatism and principle.

If someone is holding a gun to someone's head, obviously, in a purely principled sense, there's no moral "neutral position". The Gunman would be wrong.

However, one can certainly employ the pragmatic approach of some coddling to calm them down and make them more receptive to a peaceful resolution.


"Well, the hostage got their head blown off, but at least I can sleep soundly knowing that I told the gunman in no uncertain terms that they were a scumbag and were in the wrong and refused to concede to any talking they had" -- said no Crisis Intervention Team ever...
 

wing2000

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Vambram

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Vambram

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Marco Rubio accuses CBS reporter of pushing 'stupid media narrative' in fiery clash over Zelensky.
Secretary of State rejects claims that European leaders are coming to protect Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky from being bullied.

"We had one meeting with Putin and like a dozen meetings with Zelensky… They're not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelensky from being bullied. They are coming here because we've been working with the Europeans. We talked to them last week… The President talked to these leaders as early as Thursday… This is such a stupid media narrative," Rubio said.

 
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Vambram

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Trump’s Russia play isn’t about Ukraine, it's about China.
President aims to reduce Moscow's dependence on Beijing through energy and Arctic deals.
The headlines say the Alaska summit between President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin was about Ukraine. Commentators in Brussels and Washington rehearse the familiar debates: Was Trump too soft on Moscow? Did he undermine Kyiv?

But that framing misses the bigger picture.

The Trump administration has already set the terms of the 21st-century contest: The United States faces its greatest long-term threat not from Russia, but from China. From sweeping sanctions on Beijing’s access to advanced AI chips, to trading U.S. security guarantees for alignment in the Middle East and Indo-Pacific, Trump has consistently structured foreign policy around containing China’s rise. Against that backdrop, his Russia outreach is not a distraction. It is a deliberate attempt to bring coherence to an America-first strategy — one that pits him against the old globalist consensus now clinging to the EU–Ukraine agenda.

 
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public hermit

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Trump’s Russia play isn’t about Ukraine, it's about China.
President aims to reduce Moscow's dependence on Beijing through energy and Arctic deals.
The headlines say the Alaska summit between President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin was about Ukraine. Commentators in Brussels and Washington rehearse the familiar debates: Was Trump too soft on Moscow? Did he undermine Kyiv?

But that framing misses the bigger picture.

The Trump administration has already set the terms of the 21st-century contest: The United States faces its greatest long-term threat not from Russia, but from China. From sweeping sanctions on Beijing’s access to advanced AI chips, to trading U.S. security guarantees for alignment in the Middle East and Indo-Pacific, Trump has consistently structured foreign policy around containing China’s rise. Against that backdrop, his Russia outreach is not a distraction. It is a deliberate attempt to bring coherence to an America-first strategy — one that pits him against the old globalist consensus now clinging to the EU–Ukraine agenda.


That doesn't sound right, at all. "Trump's Russia play" wasn't about "Russian outreach." It was capitulation to Putin's demands. If anyone has benefited from this war, it's China. If it was about China, Trump would implement secondary tariffs on China for purchasing Russian oil. Instead, he's now backed off on implementing those. Why? That's what Putin wanted, and Trump did it.

 
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Vambram

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That doesn't sound right, at all. "Trump's Russia play" wasn't about "Russian outreach." It was capitulation to Putin's demands. If anyone has benefited from this war, it's China. If it was about China, Trump would implement secondary tariffs on China for purchasing Russian oil. Instead, he's now backed off on implementing those. Why? That's what Putin wanted, and Trump did it.

I strongly disagree with your analysis for the reasons which are written about in that article I posted from foxbusiness.com in post #30
 
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essentialsaltes

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Trump’s Russia play isn’t about Ukraine, it's about China.
Sure, that's why Trump was talking (in the days leading up to this meeting) about severe repercussions if Putin didn't make with a ceasefire in Ukraine.
 
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Pommer

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Pommer

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Marco Rubio accuses CBS reporter of pushing 'stupid media narrative' in fiery clash over Zelensky.
Secretary of State rejects claims that European leaders are coming to protect Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky from being bullied.

"We had one meeting with Putin and like a dozen meetings with Zelensky… They're not coming here tomorrow to keep Zelensky from being bullied. They are coming here because we've been working with the Europeans. We talked to them last week… The President talked to these leaders as early as Thursday… This is such a stupid media narrative," Rubio said.

The Administration that gets along with everyone who doesn’t talk mean about them lashes out at those who do!?
No! That cannot be!
 
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BCP1928

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Marco Rubio accuses CBS reporter of pushing 'stupid media narrative' in fiery clash over Zelensky.
Secretary of State rejects claims that European leaders are coming to protect Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky from being bullied.
Rubio is a good soldier. Those European leaders are not coming here to keep Trump from being a bully (although he may try it) but to show the solidarity with Ukraine that Trump cannot.
 
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Pommer

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Trump’s Russia play isn’t about Ukraine, it's about China.
President aims to reduce Moscow's dependence on Beijing through energy and Arctic deals.
The headlines say the Alaska summit between President Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin was about Ukraine. Commentators in Brussels and Washington rehearse the familiar debates: Was Trump too soft on Moscow? Did he undermine Kyiv?

But that framing misses the bigger picture.

The Trump administration has already set the terms of the 21st-century contest: The United States faces its greatest long-term threat not from Russia, but from China. From sweeping sanctions on Beijing’s access to advanced AI chips, to trading U.S. security guarantees for alignment in the Middle East and Indo-Pacific, Trump has consistently structured foreign policy around containing China’s rise. Against that backdrop, his Russia outreach is not a distraction. It is a deliberate attempt to bring coherence to an America-first strategy — one that pits him against the old globalist consensus now clinging to the EU–Ukraine agenda.

Oh?
So it wasn’t a failed diplomatic stunt mission, it was an end-around to China!

How does the knight move in 12-dimensional chess?
 
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childeye 2

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If a person is acting as a mediator and trying to broker a deal, "neutrality" in the sense I was referring to it, refers to not giving either side the impression that the mediator is on the other guy's side.
Oh, the irony ---> Obviously, there was no sound reason to publicly belittle Zelensky as disrespectful for not wearing a suit, nor insinuate he was never thankful for US support, nor insinuate he is a dictator whom his people do not support, nor to blame him for the war, nor call him the problem preventing a peace deal. I see Trump pretending to be neutral only for appearances sake (It's wrong to be neutral in this scenario), while treating Putin with undue respect and trying to bully Zelensky into losing hope and giving up his resistance to Putin. The narrative is being spun to try and make Zelensky look like the warmonger.

I mentioned the tug-o-war between that concept, and pragmatism.

Pragmatism dictates that there's zero upside in Trump doing anything that would cause Putin to leave the negotiating table.
It's not pragmatic to make deals with people who don't honor deals.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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It's not pragmatic to make deals with people who don't honor deals.

Welp, then when do we put boots on the ground on the Eastern front?
 
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wing2000

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...as expected after Trump capitulated to Putin by dropping the cease fire demand:

Russia launched ballistic missiles and attack drones, killing at least seven people in Kharkiv, including an entire family, with two children and a grandmother. Russian strikes on the southern city of Zaporizhzhia killed three others, including a child, and wounded at least 20 more, regional authorities said.

Zelensky condemned the attacks as “a demonstrative and cynical Russian strike” ahead of the White House talks on Monday that showed Ukraine’s need for “reliable security guarantees.”


 
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