Why do US schools not allow the Bible to be taught ?

Apple Sky · Saturday at 12:07 AM

I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

Apple Sky · Saturday at 12:12 AM

Not being from the US, how true is this ?

David Lamb · Saturday at 2:21 AM

Apple Sky said:
I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

Even in our own country, the UK, teachers who are Christians do face considerable difficulties. Things such as the biblical teaching on marriage, the whole matter of gender recognition, and the unique claims of the Lord Jesus Christ, are a minefield for the Christian teacher.

Apple Sky · Saturday at 2:40 AM

David Lamb said:
Even in our own country, the UK, teachers who are Christians do face considerable difficulties. Things such as the biblical teaching on marriage, the whole matter of gender recognition, and the unique claims of the Lord Jesus Christ, are a minefield for the Christian teacher.

Why is this ? When I were in school we had RE lessons, this makes me wonder what do the Government officials have aginst Jesus & what is their agenda ?

David Lamb · Saturday at 2:52 AM

Apple Sky said:
Why is this ? When I were in school we had RE lessons, this makes me wonder what do the Government officials have aginst Jesus & what is their agenda ?

I believe it to be a mistaken notion of so-called human rights. So they say that if someone says that marriage is between one man and one woman, that goes against the rights of homosexuals, and if someone says that we are either male or female, and cannot change our sex or gender, that goes against the rights of "trans" people. Add to that the fact that Jesus says that whoever is not for Him is against Him, in other words, unsaved people are His enemies, and it isn't surprising that many MPs are against Jesus.

PloverWing · Saturday at 3:09 AM

Apple Sky said:
I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

This is an exaggeration with a small grain of truth.

In the US, we have the very firm principle that we do not have an established religion. (First Amendment to our Constitution, and very important to us.) Since the public schools are operated by the government, if public school teachers teach Christianity in the sense that a church would teach it, or lead their students in Christian prayers or services, this would be considered an establishment of religion (since students can't easily opt out) and is forbidden. There have been court cases that addressed this question.

Religion and religious figures can be mentioned in classrooms as long as it's clear that no favoritism is being given to any religion. Also, religious student clubs can exist, as long as they're student-run and totally voluntary.

The proper corrective, if a teacher missteps, is going to be up to the local school administration. If I were a school administrator, I'd start with a conversation ("Mr. Smith, we're not allowed to do that; do this other thing instead"), instead of firing the teacher.

Larniavc · Saturday at 3:11 AM

Apple Sky said:
I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

Not true. Unless they say ‘you must believe in Jesus’. Then they might get into trouble. And when you say ‘you heard’ who did you hear it from?

Growing up in the south of England in the 70s/80s we had religion in school given as fact.

But I preferred Dinosaurs to Jesus.

Larniavc · Saturday at 3:13 AM

David Lamb said:
it isn't surprising that many MPs are against Jesus.

It’s also political suicide here in the UK to bring up too much God. But that’s because we are a far less religious nation that America.

Tuur · Saturday at 7:12 AM

Apple Sky said:
I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

Well, to start with, government doesn't like the competition.

Second, know that some Hispanics are named Jesus (pronounced Hay-soos), so no, a teacher won't be sacked for saying the name Jesus.

Third, know that saying the name Jesus Christ might get a teacher sacked but such is an over-reaction of school administrators. it can be so bad that even Bill Clinton released guidelines explaining what is permitted and what isn't. See: Memorandum on Religious Expression in Public Schools | The American Presidency Project

The reason why what the guidelines say and what schools do still can be different is because lawsuits have been used as a bludgeon against schools to force them to remove any reference to religion in general and Christianity in particular. A school may be in the right, but being in the right doesn't pay the legal expenses.

The reason the US is in this situation is a misapplication of the Establishment Clause of the 1st and 14th Amendments of the US Constitution. The point of the Establishment Clause was to prevent an official "Church of the United States" like the UK and others has an official state sponsored church. So it was that some states into the early 19th Century maintained state funding for a particular denomination into the early 19th Century, and church services were regularly held in US federal buildings, particularly the US Capitol Building, well into the 19th Century, all without violating the Establishment Clause because such services were not restricted to a single Christian denomination. It was only after the 14th Amendment was interpreted in such a way as to extend the Establishment Clause past the "Congress shall make no law" part that starts the amendment that there was a systematic purge of religion from schools. Even New York City's non-denominational prayer was ruled verboten.

Thus teaching the bible in US public schools is ruled forbidden unless it's done in a non-religious way. That's like a world-religion class that teaches about the major religions of world. Teaching the bible as literature causes howls of outrage but is technically legal.

Islam, though, per my observation, gets more of a pass.

Larniavc · Saturday at 7:16 AM

Tuur said:
Islam, though, per my observation, gets more of a pass.

How many many publicised attempts have there been to get the Quran into the classroom?

Gene2memE · Saturday at 7:45 AM

Tuur said:
Islam, though, per my observation, gets more of a pass.

Yep.

That's why people keep trying to mandate that the Surah Ayah al-Kursi gets displayed in public schools and court houses.

timf · Saturday at 8:01 AM

Some schools are less rigid than others. Generally, public education was an important past of Satan's plan to weaken families and substitute his own teachings. In order to advance his deceptions. He does not want people to have access to truth.

Maria Billingsley · Saturday at 8:15 AM

Apple Sky said:
I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

Is this not a nation that supports Israel? Would it not be anti-semetic to teach practicing Jewish children about Jesus Christ of Nazareth? I wish people would recognize the hypocrisy of it all.
As far as being sacked, I don't know but there will certainly be complaints from parents who are not agreeable to Jesus Christ of Nazareth.
Blessings

JosephZ · Saturday at 9:25 AM

Apple Sky said:
I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

Bible classes are allowed in North Carolina public schools and teacher's wouldn't be able to teach these courses without mentioning the name Jesus. Below are the course descriptions of the Bible classes offered at a high school in my local area.

Bible I

Credit: 1

Grades: 9-12

Prerequisite: None

In this Bible History course we will be studying in the Old Testament. We will begin our study in the book of Genesis. The book of Genesis means “beginnings.” In this book we will read about the beginning of creation, the beginning of sin, the beginning of consequences, the beginning of God’s covenant promises and the beginning of a nation. We will follow the people of Israel through their beginnings, their growth as a nation and their struggles along the way. We will end our study in the book of Joshua, as the people of Israel enter their Promised Land. In addition, we will be memorizing books of the Bible, studying Old Testament maps and researching ancient customs.

Bible II

Credit: 1

Grades: 9-12

Prerequisite: None

In this Bible History course we will be studying in the New Testament. Our focus will be the life of Jesus Christ. We will study the prophecies and events surrounding his birth, the beginning of his ministry, the people that chose to follow him, his miracles and signs, his teachings, his last days, his death, his resurrection and his final commission to his disciples. In addition, we will be memorizing books of the Bible, studying New Testament maps and researching ancient customs.

essentialsaltes · Saturday at 10:48 AM

Apple Sky said:
I heard somewhere that if teachers in the US even mention the name 'Jesus' to their pupils they are sacked from their jobs, how true is this ?

This is not at all true.

Teachers are allowed (where appropriate in the curriculum in history or social studies or literature) to teach about religion, but they are forbidden from teaching religion (i.e. proselytizing or Sunday school).

Bibles are universally found in school libraries, and the Bible and Jesus are not forbidden from the classroom.

Apple Sky · Saturday at 12:33 PM

essentialsaltes said:
This is not at all true.

Teachers are allowed (where appropriate in the curriculum in history or social studies or literature) to teach about religion, but they are forbidden from teaching religion (i.e. proselytizing or Sunday school).

Bibles are universally found in school libraries, and the Bible and Jesus are not forbidden from the classroom.

Glad to here this

Tuur · Saturday at 7:33 PM

Maria Billingsley said:
Is this not a nation that supports Israel? Would it not be anti-semetic to teach practicing Jewish children about Jesus Christ of Nazareth? I wish people would recognize the hypocrisy of it all.

Um...

Jesus Christ was born into a Jewish family and kept the Jewish law. He informed his listeners what he didn't come to abolish the Jewish law. The first Christians were Jews who continued to observe the law, and there was the question of whether salvation was open only to Jews, meaning that gentiles would have to become Jews, or to both Jews and gentiles. Even some of the Jewish commentaries mention Jesus of Nazareth.

The difference is that many Jews never accepted Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah, just as many gentiles today do not. It's my understanding that at least Orthodox Jews do not consider a Jew who accepts Christ as still being a Jew, though I could be wrong. A quick check shows that reading the New Testament isn't forbidden even to Orthodox Jews, and some rabbis acknowledged reading non-Jewish religious texts, so that is not an offense against Judaism.

All this being the case, then how is teaching about Jesus of Nazareth anti-Semitic?

Tuur · Saturday at 7:41 PM

essentialsaltes said:
Bibles are universally found in school libraries, and the Bible and Jesus are not forbidden from the classroom.

Unfortunately, some schools have taken the position that it is forbidden, which is why Bill Clinton issued his memo to publish schools detailing exactly what was and wasn't permitted. One incident leading up to this was a Georgia student who, when his class drew Christmas art, drew a nativity scene, and was initially not displayed with the rest of his class' artwork. When the school relented it covered it with a flap of paper that had to be lifted to see it.

Note that by the guidelines from President Clinton, you are correct. The school was wrong to have refused to display the student's art and then to have covered it, and that's clear from that memo. But such happened and occasionally you still hear of incidents.

BCP1928 · Saturday at 7:47 PM

Tuur said:
Well, to start with, government doesn't like the competition.

Second, know that some Hispanics are named Jesus (pronounced Hay-soos), so no, a teacher won't be sacked for saying the name Jesus.

Third, know that saying the name Jesus Christ might get a teacher sacked but such is an over-reaction of school administrators. it can be so bad that even Bill Clinton released guidelines explaining what is permitted and what isn't. See: Memorandum on Religious Expression in Public Schools | The American Presidency Project

The reason why what the guidelines say and what schools do still can be different is because lawsuits have been used as a bludgeon against schools to force them to remove any reference to religion in general and Christianity in particular. A school may be in the right, but being in the right doesn't pay the legal expenses.

The reason the US is in this situation is a misapplication of the Establishment Clause of the 1st and 14th Amendments of the US Constitution. The point of the Establishment Clause was to prevent an official "Church of the United States" like the UK and others has an official state sponsored church. So it was that some states into the early 19th Century maintained state funding for a particular denomination into the early 19th Century, and church services were regularly held in US federal buildings, particularly the US Capitol Building, well into the 19th Century, all without violating the Establishment Clause because such services were not restricted to a single Christian denomination. It was only after the 14th Amendment was interpreted in such a way as to extend the Establishment Clause past the "Congress shall make no law" part that starts the amendment that there was a systematic purge of religion from schools. Even New York City's non-denominational prayer was ruled verboten.

Thus teaching the bible in US public schools is ruled forbidden unless it's done in a non-religious way. That's like a world-religion class that teaches about the major religions of world. Teaching the bible as literature causes howls of outrage but is technically legal.

Most of which comes from conservative Christians, who don't want the Bible to be taught as anything but the literal and inerrant word of God. "The Left" are generally fine with it as they realize the importance of the Bible as literature.

Tuur said:
Islam, though, per my observation, gets more of a pass.

For the most part because the conflicts between different mutually hostile forms of Islam have no local salience in the US.

BCP1928 · Saturday at 8:07 PM

David Lamb said:
Even in our own country, the UK, teachers who are Christians do face considerable difficulties. Things such as the biblical teaching on marriage, the whole matter of gender recognition, and the unique claims of the Lord Jesus Christ, are a minefield for the Christian teacher.

One of the reasons it has become such a hot political issue in this country is that those groups and politicians agitating for more teaching about the Bible and Christianity in the public schools are conservative Protestants who have wed their doctrine to conservative political issues. We have never had an established religion, but at one time Evangelical Protestanism was the de facto dominant religion and was taught in schools to the extent that a student who brought a Douay Bible to school could be beaten for it. It is not lost on anyone that recent attempts by state public school administrators who are trying to bring the Bible back into the schools are requiring the posting of a Protestant version of the Ten Commandments and specifying Protestant Bibles, in one case (Oklahoma) an edition authorized by Donald Trump.

Why do US schools not allow the Bible to be taught ?

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