No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Spiritual Jew · Thursday at 6:32 PM

Brightfame52 said:
So you dont think Paul said nothing after that as to who Jesus is and what He accomplished. Explain Vs 32

32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

What was the word of the Lord they spake ? You think Paul and Silas Just kept repeating, Believe in the Lord and thou shalt be saved 100 times ?

LOL. What in the world is your point here? When you indicated how you would answer that question, it didn't even include telling the person "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" like Paul and Silas did. You must think you know more than Paul and Silas about how to tell someone what they need to do to be saved. I'm not saying they only said "believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved", but that's the first thing they told him in answering his question. Your answer didn't include telling the person that they would need to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved. Why not? You don't think Paul and Silas knew what they were doing?

Spiritual Jew · Thursday at 6:35 PM

Brightfame52 said:
What you mean no argument ? What was it you responded to with your argument ?

LOL. Is this how you were taught to speak in English class in school? What are you wanting me to do here, repeat everything that we've said to each other? Most of the time you respond with one liners that don't address anything that's been said. What do you not understand about that?

Spiritual Jew · Thursday at 6:40 PM

Brightfame52 said:
@Spiritual Jew

Absolutely Yes, I know it so.

So, do you think every time someone sins it's God's will for them to do so? If so, why does He get angry when people don't repent of their sins if they're just doing what He supposedly wants them to do?

Brightfame52 said:
Was it Gods will for Pharoah to disobey His command to let His People Go out of Egypt ?

No, of course not. But, He knew that he would disobey because of his already hardened heart that he had. Why do you think God sent the plagues on Pharaoh and the Egyptians? Just for something to do? Or were they punishments for disobeying His command and being in rebellion against Him? You seem to think that God gives commands for no reason and doesn't actually want anyone to obey them, which makes no sense.

Spiritual Jew · Thursday at 6:50 PM

A New Dawn said:
I did nothing but quote the Bible to you.

No, you also gave your own commentary on what you quoted and that is what I disagreed with.

A New Dawn said:
Genesis 3, that passage, clearly shows that the earth and all creation (including mankind) fell, they no longer walked with God (and neither did anyone after them), the earth turned to dust and man had to toil ALL BECAUSE OF ADAM it says. And BECAUSE OF ADAM, sin entered the earth.

Yes, sin came from Adam, but each person is responsible for his or her own sins, not Adam's. Is this too hard for you to understand? When someone stands before Jesus at the judgment, they will have to give an account of themselves, not Adam.

A New Dawn said:
And Paul says in Romans that “as by one man sin entered the earth, and death by sin”. We are not paying for Adam’s sin, we are paying for our own sins.

Right, we are each responsible for our own sins. That's what I'm saying.

A New Dawn said:
Adam created the conditions, we live in sin because of Adam, but it is our own sin.

Right. It would've been nice if you had said this in the first place since I do agree with this.

A New Dawn said:
And because we sin, we are spiritually dead in our sins, BECAUSE OF ADAM.

Only in the sense that we have a sinful nature that we inherit going back to Adam, but, again, we are each responsible for our own sins. So, since we are each responsible for our own sins, I don't know why you emphasize Adam's sin more than our own. What is the point of that?

A New Dawn · 2025-08-15T08:29:37-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
No, you also gave your own commentary on what you quoted and that is what I disagreed with.

Yes, sin came from Adam, but each person is responsible for his or her own sins, not Adam's. Is this too hard for you to understand? When someone stands before Jesus at the judgment, they will have to give an account of themselves, not Adam.

Right, we are each responsible for our own sins. That's what I'm saying.

Right. It would've been nice if you had said this in the first place since I do agree with this.

Only in the sense that we have a sinful nature that we inherit going back to Adam, but, again, we are each responsible for our own sins. So, since we are each responsible for our own sins, I don't know why you emphasize Adam's sin more than our own. What is the point of that?

This is exactly what I have said all along. Perhaps you are thinking of another poster as I also recall speaking against our being responsible for Adam’s sin.

I only pointed out Adam’s sin because it is because of his sin that we are fallen and well apart from God. He was our representative before God, just as Jesus is our representative before the Father as our savior. You seemed to disagree that he was our representative.

A New Dawn · 2025-08-15T08:35:57-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
Are you being purposely dense? I referenced Hebrews 3:12-14 where "brothers and sisters" in Christ are being addressed, not unbelievers. Does context mean nothing to you?

And you know for certain that there were nonbelievers in that group? How would you know that?

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-15T09:09:38-0500

Wonder if The Father doesnt draw a person to believe in Christ ? Does that person have the ability to believe in Christ with their own freewill ?

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-15T09:13:11-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
LOL. What in the world is your point here? When you indicated how you would answer that question, it didn't even include telling the person "Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved" like Paul and Silas did. You must think you know more than Paul and Silas about how to tell someone what they need to do to be saved. I'm not saying they only said "believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved", but that's the first thing they told him in answering his question. Your answer didn't include telling the person that they would need to believe in the Lord Jesus in order to be saved. Why not? You don't think Paul and Silas knew what they were doing?

The point is, after telling the man to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved, they would explain to him the Gospel about Jesus Christ. Duh

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-15T09:17:56-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
LOL. Is this how you were taught to speak in English class in school? What are you wanting me to do here, repeat everything that we've said to each other? Most of the time you respond with one liners that don't address anything that's been said. What do you not understand about that?

So what you been doing if not responding to my arguments ? I began the thread with argument

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-15T09:28:53-0500

@Spiritual Jew

No, of course not.

You wrong, it was Gods will for Pharoah to disobey His command to let His people go. Im not even arguing about that, its so plain in the Ex narrative.

Is hating people wrong morally ? Was it Gods will for the egyptians to hate the israelites here Ps 105:25

He turned their heart to hate his people, to deal subtilly with his servants.

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-15T09:39:19-0500

@Spiritual Jew

Yes, sin came from Adam, but each person is responsible for his or her own sins, not Adam's.

Both, man initially sinned in Adam Rom 5:12 and then afterwards after he is born a sinner. If Christ didn't die for his sins, he is guilty of every sin he ever committed beginning in Adam. That goes for babies as well, they guilty in Adam, so their first sin was as a grown responsible adult man in Adam

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-16T11:37:24-0500

What we as natural men dont comprehend is that by nature we are dead to God, in such a condition we are without any hope in and of ourselves, like these gentiles Eph 2:12

12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

This means nothing can possibly done by man to change his plight, he can not do anything spiritually good towards salvation. Without spiritual life its a dead end. By nature we cant even think a spiritual thought 2 Cor 3:5

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;

Jesus even told His disciples in regards to spiritual matters Jn 15:5

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

So what about a person dead in sin ? How can they come to Christ, a spiritual act, by their own freewill in the flesh ? 14

Akita Suggagaki · 2025-08-16T12:02:20-0500

This is a moot point. 46 pages? Really?
What practical value does any answer to this question have for anyone?

BibleBeliever1611 · 2025-08-16T12:04:45-0500

Akita Suggagaki said:
This is a moot point. 46 pages? Really?
What practical value does any answer to this question have for anyone?

Yeah it's pretty pointless because normally everyone believes in free will when we step outside of that intellectual bubble. You don't live your life feeling like you don't have free will.

No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

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