Trump federalizing DC police, deploying National Guard in capital crime crackdown

ThatRobGuy · Monday at 6:09 PM

I think a lot of the conversations we're having in this thread somewhat bolster the argument that some have made for decades...

Which is, it was probably a mistake to allow regular residency in DC.

Trying to have the federal administrative district function as both the seat of the federal government and a "regular residential city" seems to create some rather unique challenges and conflicts of interest.

Valletta · Monday at 6:12 PM

Tropical Wilds said:
Super.

Still waiting to hear what that has to do with what I said in post 26, or how a summertime curfew after school hours translates to Trump and the mayor doing something about school shootings.

I don't know if Trump has addressed that specifically, but I can give you my opinion which probably is very close to his. The liberal approach obviously is not working, gun control laws sure are not going to solve the problem, nor not prosecuting kids for gun control violations. I would bet that a large number of the shootings are from gang bangers. That's a societal problem much because of the left's abandonment of the family and Christian/Judeo values. Obama spoke out about dads being needed in families before he was silenced by wokeness. DEI and CRT, teaching the children victimhood, is exactly the wrong approach and that is being eliminated. Instead of telling the child he or she is discriminated because of the color of their skin, for blacks, for example, tell them how well black Nigerians do here in America. Give them school choice, no more of the old Joe Biden position of blocking black kids from going to predominantly white schools. We need to get to these kids early, and for those that are extremely disruptive take them out of school and put them in a disciplinarian school so that other children can learn.

durangodawood · Monday at 6:15 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
What would you expect them to do about school shootings?

Washington DC already has most of the policies in place that gun control advocates recommend.

According to Giffords and Everytown, DC consistently ranks among the strictest (aka "Best" in their view) jurisdictions in the nation for gun safety laws.

- Universal background checks
- "Ghost Gun" prohibitions
- Mandatory licensing for owning a gun
- Mandatory 10-day waiting periods between purchase and possession
- Protection order enforcement/removal
- Mandatory registration of all firearms
- Safe storage laws
- Magazine capacity restrictions
- Ammunition type restrictions
- Assault weapons restrictions

Which ones are missing that the DC mayor should press the DC council to add?

All of the above nationwide, not by DC council but by US president. All those little laws are useless on the tiny island of DC with meaningless borders.

Plus close gun show loopholes, license all firearms individually to owners just like a vehicle registration.

Hey its an emergency!

ThatRobGuy · Monday at 6:36 PM

durangodawood said:
All of the above nationwide, not by DC council but by US president. All those little laws are useless on the tiny island of DC with meaningless borders.

Plus close gun show loopholes, license all firearms individually to owners just like a vehicle registration.

Hey its an emergency!

I thought it was a serious sticking point for a president to bypass congress in terms of policymaking?

(not to mention, it's not terribly effective when attempted through that route... Obama tried. He issued 23 executive actions relating to gun control, and it didn't really go anywhere)

For the record, I'm not opposed to the measures you listed...I've also advocated for universal background checks and am cool with licensing. (If you recall my previous posts, I'm a fan of the Czech Republic gun control model if we had the option to do a square one/start from scratch approach).

But if you're expecting that to move the needle in any meaningful way in the next 30 years after hundreds of millions of guns are already out there, you're in for a bit of disappointment.

In past posts, I've advocated for a "gun grand bargain" of sorts.

Give the gun control advocates universal background checks and licensing
...and in exchange...
Recognize nationwide CCW permit reciprocity per the Full Faith & Credit clause of the constitution

Given that 85% of gun owners support universal background checks (including 78% of republican gun owners and 63% of NRA members), and just about everyone with a CCW permit would like to be able carry when they travel, I don't think there'd be much pushback from the gun-owning citizens on that compromise... do you think the blue states would be cool with that?

Hans Blaster · Monday at 8:45 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
What would you expect them to do about school shootings?

I guess you really missed the point, Rob.

The most effective way to end school shootings is to wait until the end of the school year and take the summer off.

That was the point, Rob. This is summer. There is no school, so there are no "school shootings" to "fix" with short term policies like a curfew. (Not that a curfew would do anything to stop school shootings anyway, given that school doesn't occur at night.

Valletta · Monday at 9:05 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
I thought it was a serious sticking point for a president to bypass congress in terms of policymaking?

(not to mention, it's not terribly effective when attempted through that route... Obama tried. He issued 23 executive actions relating to gun control, and it didn't really go anywhere)

For the record, I'm not opposed to the measures you listed...I've also advocated for universal background checks and am cool with licensing. (If you recall my previous posts, I'm a fan of the Czech Republic gun control model if we had the option to do a square one/start from scratch approach).

But if you're expecting that to move the needle in any meaningful way in the next 30 years after hundreds of millions of guns are already out there, you're in for a bit of disappointment.

In past posts, I've advocated for a "gun grand bargain" of sorts.

Give the gun control advocates universal background checks and licensing
...and in exchange...
Recognize nationwide CCW permit reciprocity per the Full Faith & Credit clause of the constitution

Given that 85% of gun owners support universal background checks (including 78% of republican gun owners and 63% of NRA members), and just about everyone with a CCW permit would like to be able carry when they travel, I don't think there'd be much pushback from the gun-owning citizens on that compromise... do you think the blue states would be cool with that?

I certainly hope at the end of 30 days Trump will

essentialsaltes said:
Apparently the Home Rule Act gives the president 30 days.

The law allows the president to require the D.C. mayor to provide "such services of the Metropolitan Police force as the President may deem necessary and appropriate" for a period of 48 hours, a deadline that can be extended by notifying Congress about the takeover and how much longer it is likely to continue. A House Oversight Committee spokesperson confirmed to CBS News that the panel had been notified by the president of the extension beyond 48 hours. The statute says the president can control the police department for up to 30 days, "unless the Senate and the House of Representatives enact into law a joint resolution authorizing such an extension."

After 30 days I expect Trump might take a day off before the next 30 days.

Bradskii · Tuesday at 1:38 AM

Valletta said:
Enough is enough, we cannot let gangs rule our nation's capitol.

A bit late for that comment, but I completely agree. I guess you were also against Trump pardoning those Jan 6 thugs as well.

FireDragon76 · Tuesday at 5:09 AM

This is a ridiculous loyalty test and kayfabe. It's not meant to be credible, merely have symbolic weight. Because factually, DC isn't a place of rampant lawlessness, the crime rate is at a 30 year low. But the absurdity is part of the point, it's a way to test the loyalty of his inner circle by offering up racist tropes to his most ardent base, to bind his inner circle to him by forcing their hand in his kayfabe.

BCP1928 · Tuesday at 5:50 AM

Valletta said:
I don't know if Trump has addressed that specifically, but I can give you my opinion which probably is very close to his. The liberal approach obviously is not working, gun control laws sure are not going to solve the problem, nor not prosecuting kids for gun control violations. I would bet that a large number of the shootings are from gang bangers. That's a societal problem much because of the left's abandonment of the family and Christian/Judeo values. Obama spoke out about dads being needed in families before he was silenced by wokeness. DEI and CRT, teaching the children victimhood, is exactly the wrong approach and that is being eliminated. Instead of telling the child he or she is discriminated because of the color of their skin, for blacks, for example, tell them how well black Nigerians do here in America. Give them school choice, no more of the old Joe Biden position of blocking black kids from going to predominantly white schools. We need to get to these kids early, and for those that are extremely disruptive take them out of school and put them in a disciplinarian school so that other children can learn.

So the problem is that they don't belong to your culture club?

Valletta · Tuesday at 6:48 AM

BCP1928 said:
So the problem is that they don't belong to your culture club?

The problem is these kids need firm guidance at a young age, they need to be taught discipline and respect and other values. The hard left victimhood approach is so damaging. They need good role models. Fathers can be important role models. As President Obama pointed out, the government can throw as much money as they want at crime but that doesn't solve the problem. If a father cannot be present then a mother or guardian or teacher can take that place:

Valletta · Tuesday at 6:51 AM

FireDragon76 said:
This is a ridiculous loyalty test and kayfabe. It's not meant to be credible, merely have symbolic weight. Because factually, DC isn't a place of rampant lawlessness, the crime rate is at a 30 year low. But the absurdity is part of the point, it's a way to test the loyalty of his inner circle by offering up racist tropes to his most ardent base, to bind his inner circle to him by forcing their hand in his kayfabe.

So you're saying the number of shootings in schools in D.C. is satisfactory? Maybe for you but not for many of the rest of us. The REPORTED crime rate may be a bit less than last year, but way more crimes take place than should. We don't know how many of the lesser crimes go unreported because people know little if anything will be done.

wing2000 · Tuesday at 6:53 AM

Valletta said:
The problem is these kids need firm guidance at a young age, they need to be taught discipline and respect and other values. The hard left victimhood approach is so damaging. They need good role models. Fathers can be important role models. As President Obama pointed out, the government can throw as much money as they want at crime but that doesn't solve the problem. If a father cannot be present then a mother or guardian or teacher can take that place:

Deploying the National Guard and sentencing kids age 14 as adults solves this how?

ThatRobGuy · Tuesday at 6:54 AM

Hans Blaster said:
I guess you really missed the point, Rob.

The most effective way to end school shootings is to wait until the end of the school year and take the summer off.

That was the point, Rob. This is summer. There is no school, so there are no "school shootings" to "fix" with short term policies like a curfew. (Not that a curfew would do anything to stop school shootings anyway, given that school doesn't occur at night.

Really? Because the original post that delved into that facet of the conversation was this:

ThatRobGuy · Tuesday at 6:57 AM

FireDragon76 said:
This is a ridiculous loyalty test and kayfabe. It's not meant to be credible, merely have symbolic weight. Because factually, DC isn't a place of rampant lawlessness, the crime rate is at a 30 year low. But the absurdity is part of the point, it's a way to test the loyalty of his inner circle by offering up racist tropes to his most ardent base, to bind his inner circle to him by forcing their hand in his kayfabe.

DC police commander suspended, accused of changing crime statistics

A D.C. police commander is under investigation for allegedly making changes to crime statistics in his district. The Metropolitan Police Department confirmed Michael Pulliam was placed on paid administrative leave in mid-May. That happened just a week after Pulliam filed an equal employment...

www.nbcwashington.com

Are we confident that it's actually at a 30 year low?

“When our members respond to the scene of a felony offense where there is a victim reporting that a felony occurred, inevitably there will be a lieutenant or a captain that will show up on that scene and direct those members to take a report for a lesser offense,” Fraternal Order of Police Chairman Gregg Pemberton said. “So, instead of taking a report for a shooting or a stabbing or a carjacking, they will order that officer to take a report for a theft or an injured person to the hospital or a felony assault, which is not the same type of classification.”

The police department's command staff is focusing on two categories in order to get the numbers to fall, Pemberton said: armed with a dangerous weapon and injured person to the hospital.

“When management officials are directing officers to take reports for felony assault, or if they're going back into police databases and changing offenses to felony assault, felony assault is not a category of crime that's listed on the department's daily crime stats,” Pemberton said. “It's also not something that's a requirement of the FBI's uniform crime reporting program. So, by changing criminal offenses from, for example, ADW bat or ADW gun to felony assault, that would avoid both the MPD and the FBI from reporting that as a part one or a felony offense.”

FireDragon76 · Tuesday at 8:41 AM

Valletta said:
So you're saying the number of shootings in schools in D.C. is satisfactory? Maybe for you but not for many of the rest of us. The REPORTED crime rate may be a bit less than last year, but way more crimes take place than should. We don't know how many of the lesser crimes go unreported because people know little if anything will be done.

What does any of that have to do with deploying 800 national guards? There is no logical connection. The troops won't be patrolling schools, but streets.

FireDragon76 · Tuesday at 8:53 AM

ThatRobGuy said:
DC police commander suspended, accused of changing crime statistics

A D.C. police commander is under investigation for allegedly making changes to crime statistics in his district. The Metropolitan Police Department confirmed Michael Pulliam was placed on paid administrative leave in mid-May. That happened just a week after Pulliam filed an equal employment...

www.nbcwashington.com

Are we confident that it's actually at a 30 year low?

“When our members respond to the scene of a felony offense where there is a victim reporting that a felony occurred, inevitably there will be a lieutenant or a captain that will show up on that scene and direct those members to take a report for a lesser offense,” Fraternal Order of Police Chairman Gregg Pemberton said. “So, instead of taking a report for a shooting or a stabbing or a carjacking, they will order that officer to take a report for a theft or an injured person to the hospital or a felony assault, which is not the same type of classification.”

The police department's command staff is focusing on two categories in order to get the numbers to fall, Pemberton said: armed with a dangerous weapon and injured person to the hospital.

“When management officials are directing officers to take reports for felony assault, or if they're going back into police databases and changing offenses to felony assault, felony assault is not a category of crime that's listed on the department's daily crime stats,” Pemberton said. “It's also not something that's a requirement of the FBI's uniform crime reporting program. So, by changing criminal offenses from, for example, ADW bat or ADW gun to felony assault, that would avoid both the MPD and the FBI from reporting that as a part one or a felony offense.”

Anecdote from one highly biased source (a member of the FOP). But good try at muddying the waters.

ThatRobGuy · Tuesday at 9:18 AM

FireDragon76 said:
Anecdote from one highly biased source (a member of the FOP). But good try at muddying the waters.

It's not muddying the waters...

Given that many of the critiques I'm hearing is "this is counterproductive, as DC crime rates are way down", then this caveat is completely applicable.

And it doesn't sound like the fact that the numbers were manipulated is the main point of disagreement in the NBC article. It sounds like the contention surrounds whether or not he was acting of his own accord, or if that decision was coming from above him, and they're just hanging the one guy out to dry.

DaisyDay · Tuesday at 10:46 AM

Nithavela said:
Felt safe? Please.

This is what a safe place looks like:

Nothing more reassuring than masked men in jackboots!

Hans Blaster · Tuesday at 12:13 PM

ThatRobGuy said:
Really? Because the original post that delved into that facet of the conversation was this:

And I was replying to your comment after a whole sequence of posts between them about curfews and shootings.

ThatRobGuy said:
View attachment 368457

It does amuse me that you now see my instruction on how to remove signatures every time you see one of my posts. Remember you don't need to look at signatures.

Pommer · Tuesday at 2:46 PM

Hans Blaster said:
Remember you don't need to look at signatures.

Indeed, cleans things up quite a bit.

Trump federalizing DC police, deploying National Guard in capital crime crackdown

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