Consumer Prices Will Go Down From Day One? Will Gas Prices Go Down 50% Within A Year?

Hans Blaster · Monday at 2:07 AM

mark46 said:
whatever

The effect on US consumers is very direct. An imported product used to cost $100. Now (from 20% countries), the cost is somewhere between say $110. We might find a similar US product for $105 and buy it. We then would ONLY be paying 5% more. I suppose all the tariff could be absorbed by the producer and importing company. That would mean that the company was extracting exorbitant profits. Unless this were a product for which there was no substitute, this rarely happens. Someone would have undercut the producer long ago.
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There is no reasonable scenario where the price goes down on an important good with a 20% tariff.

Except that the American made alternative will absolutely be priced at $110 matching the imported good. There is no reason to give consumers lower prices than you must.

mark46 · Monday at 7:17 AM

Pommer said:
I’ve always found it strange how the Nation with the most money elected a person who had the absolute audacity to assert that we were getting bested at doing capitalism.
And, a part of his “solution” to make things more expensive.
We’re already numero uno, wealth doesn’t flow any higher than the pinnacle.

Trying to remain number-one will be a lot harder if we provoke the rest of the world’s nations from wanting to continue to deal with us as the richest country.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT
The top 10% pay 72% of income taxes (and yes, I do believe that their marginal rates should go up).
=======
I do NOT oppose raising income tax rates (for all of us). I do oppose increased sales taxes. The issue is not that we pay too much tax. We have lower rates than most developed countries. The issue is that the government doesn't give us enough services and is grossly inefficient in the spending of money, especially the federal government. Defense is an obvious example of a department with gross inefficiencies.

mark46 · Monday at 7:21 AM

Hans Blaster said:
Except that the American made alternative will absolutely be priced at $110 matching the imported good. There is no reason to give consumers lower prices than you must.

I agree.

Of course, the consumer might not be willing to pay $110 for the product. He may substitute. If someone is willing to pay $30,000 for a care, it does not follow that he will be willing to pay $35,000 just because $5,000 of the cost is tax. I just bought a car. I was willing what I was willing to pay, including all costs. If a manufacturer chose to charge an extra $10K because of the Trump tax, that wouldn't affect what I was willing to pay. I would have bought a different car.

rjs330 · Monday at 5:34 PM

mark46 said:
whatever

Nice dismissal. I speak truth. If tariffs are bad for the consumer then all tariffs are bad for the consumer. But we certainly dont hear the anti-tariff crowd complaining how consumers in other countries are being harmed by the tariffs their countries impose. They only seem concerned when Trump is doing it. They dont care a bit if Canada is doing it or the EU or the UK. I have heard no wailing over their tariffs and how they effect the consumer.

And what about the VAT tax? Thats a direct tax that effects the consumer. Or sales taxes. Yet i dont hear the same complaint of how the poor consumer is so burdened by those taxes.

mark46 said:
There is no reasonable scenario where the price goes down on an important good with a 20% tariff.

There is no reasonable scenario where the price goes down on any goods where the consumer has to pay a tax on it. VAT taxes, sales taxes, and tariffs can all effect the consumer. Why the special outrage at the American tariff? Why not the same outrage at Canadian or European tariffs?

mark46 · Monday at 5:40 PM

rjs330 said:
Nice dismissal. I speak truth. If tariffs are bad for the consumer then all tariffs are bad for the consumer. But we certainly dont hear the anti-tariff crowd complaining how consumers in other countries are being harmed by the tariffs their countries impose. They only seem concerned when Trump is doing it. They dont care a bit if Canada is doing it or the EU or the UK. I have heard no wailing over their tariffs and how they effect the consumer.

And what about the VAT tax? Thats a direct tax that effects the consumer. Or sales taxes. Yet i dont hear the same complaint of how the poor consumer is so burdened by those taxes.

There is no reasonable scenario where the price goes down on any goods where the consumer has to pay a tax on it. VAT taxes, sales taxes, and tariffs can all effect the consumer. Why the special outrage at the American tariff? Why not the same outrage at Canadian or European tariffs?

My points are simple. And consider them only my opinion if we wish. We shall see what happens.

Thw world has had a system over the past 50 year of increased globalism and products being produced where they are cheaper to be produced, The US has chosen to be a very low tariff country compared to others. I freely admist that other countries have higher prices and more restrictive import polices. Those countries can choose what they want. The US had made its choice and our policy has given us the best economy and highest median income in the history of the world,

Trump is choosing to develop and implement his own sets of decisions for the US. Maybe this will better for US consumers and companies. However, it is very unlikely to do so.

rjs330 · Monday at 5:43 PM

Pommer said:
Oh, so “raising taxes” is a “good thing” if it’s spread around to everyone and not just raised on people (and corporations) who hold the vast majority of the wealth?

Good to know.

No, I do not support tariffs for tariffs sake. I don't support sales taxes or. VAT taxes. The only tariff I support is one that balances the books with countries that do the same to us. Tit for tat so to speak. You tax our cars at 30% we do the same thing to your cars.

I would actually support a national sales tax IF we ended income tax. I would support local sales taxes if we ended income taxes and or property taxes.

I understand that taxes are a necessary thing. But I dont think they are fairly applied and we also have too many of them.

iluvatar5150 · Monday at 5:47 PM

rjs330 said:
If you ask me, I'm seeing tariffs as an end run around the VAT tax. Its interesting to me that so many oppose tariffs becauae its a tax on the people. Yet they live in areas that tax the people and support raising taxes on the people. In our country we have very few Democrats who have never met a tax they didnt like. Except the tariff of course.

rjs330 said:
Personally, I have the gut feeling I dont like the tariffs as they stand. Im okay with them being used to get fair trade because other countries use them as well. I mean we didnt hear any Canadians crying about tariffs American goods which caused them to pay higher prices. Same goes for European countries. Either they are a tax on the people or they are not.

And if they are then no anyone opposing tariffs in America should also oppose any tariffs in their own cou try for the same reason.

rjs330 said:
Nice dismissal. I speak truth. If tariffs are bad for the consumer then all tariffs are bad for the consumer. But we certainly dont hear the anti-tariff crowd complaining how consumers in other countries are being harmed by the tariffs their countries impose. They only seem concerned when Trump is doing it. They dont care a bit if Canada is doing it or the EU or the UK. I have heard no wailing over their tariffs and how they effect the consumer.

And what about the VAT tax? Thats a direct tax that effects the consumer. Or sales taxes. Yet i dont hear the same complaint of how the poor consumer is so burdened by those taxes.

There is no reasonable scenario where the price goes down on any goods where the consumer has to pay a tax on it. VAT taxes, sales taxes, and tariffs can all effect the consumer. Why the special outrage at the American tariff? Why not the same outrage at Canadian or European tariffs?

No, you don’t “speak truth.” What you’re describing is a caricature or a straw man. Your stated understanding of both international tariffs and Dem positions on tax policy is so devoid of nuance that one wonders whether you’re being deliberately deceitful or if you really haven’t been exposed to anything more substantive than Western Journal.

Lots of Dems complain about regressive taxes, including sales tax. Tariffs, at least pre-Trump, are/were complicated and largely targeted, either to protect and foster specific industries or as part of reciprocal trade deals with allies. Conflating those tariffs with what Trump has been proposing is like conflating going into surgery with getting stabbed in an alley. Yeah, sure, both involve being cut open, but there are some significant differences that you have to really try to ignore.

And why would we be complaining about VAT tax in an American politics board?

mark46 · Monday at 5:58 PM

rjs330 said:
No, I do not support tariffs for tariffs sake. I don't support sales taxes or. VAT taxes. The only tariff I support is one that balances the books with countries that do the same to us. Tit for tat so to speak. You tax our cars at 30% we do the same thing to your cars.

I would actually support a national sales tax IF we ended income tax. I would support local sales taxes if we ended income taxes and or property taxes.

I understand that taxes are a necessary thing. But I dont think they are fairly applied and we also have too many of them.

So, let us say that Korea currently has a 40% tax on US computers, and we have a 5% tax on Korean computers.

And now, you make it fair 30% both ways.
================
What do you think will be the effect on US consumers? Won't US consumers end up paying more for computers?

US car companies will sell more, but that benefit will nowhere near balance the increased costs to US consumers. The companies will need to modernize their factories and hire lots more robot workers. And yes, the shareholders will likely make lots more money. In the end, consumers pay the cost of tariffs.

mark46 · Monday at 6:00 PM

rjs330 said:
.

There is no reasonable scenario where the price goes down on any goods where the consumer has to pay a tax on it. VAT taxes, sales taxes, and tariffs can all effect the consumer. Why the special outrage at the American tariff? Why not the same outrage at Canadian or European tariffs?

I don't pay the European taxes. I pay the US taxes. I don't care if the French pay higher taxes.

rjs330 · 2025-08-13T03:39:07-0500

mark46 said:
So, let us say that Korea currently has a 40% tax on US computers, and we have a 5% tax on Korean computers.

And now, you make it fair 30% both ways.
================
What do you think will be the effect on US consumers? Won't US consumers end up paying more for computers?

US car companies will sell more, but that benefit will nowhere near balance the increased costs to US consumers. The companies will need to modernize their factories and hire lots more robot workers. And yes, the shareholders will likely make lots more money. In the end, consumers pay the cost of tariffs.

Americans will pay more for Korean Computers and thus buy fewer of them. Now Korea might decide to lower their Tariffs in order to get the US to lower ours. Now we might actually sell more Computers to them when they lower their tariff. And then we in turn will buy more of theirs. Thats what tariffs should do. Create better trade deals for the consumer and businesses in end.

But this based upon FAIR deals and trying to be fair. Opening up other markets should be a goal. Why should Canada charge us 100% tariff on ships and we charge them 10%? Thats foolish trade.

I'm certainly not saying tariffs are wonderful. Im saying tariffs need to be fair. For not just the consumer but for businesses as well.

iluvatar5150 · 2025-08-13T05:59:48-0500

rjs330 said:
Americans will pay more for Korean Computers and thus buy fewer of them. Now Korea might decide to lower their Tariffs in order to get the US to lower ours. Now we might actually sell more Computers to them when they lower their tariff. And then we in turn will buy more of theirs. Thats what tariffs should do. Create better trade deals for the consumer and businesses in end.

But this based upon FAIR deals and trying to be fair. Opening up other markets should be a goal. Why should Canada charge us 100% tariff on ships and we charge them 10%? Thats foolish trade.

I'm certainly not saying tariffs are wonderful. Im saying tariffs need to be fair. For not just the consumer but for businesses as well.

Who in the US makes computers? Who's even set up to do so? (I assume you're referring to something more than assembling foreign-made parts)

That's the problem with broad, untargeted tariffs - you just raise prices without having an industry on our end to benefit.

mark46 · 2025-08-13T08:00:10-0500

rjs330 said:
Americans will pay more for Korean Computers and thus buy fewer of them. Now Korea might decide to lower their Tariffs in order to get the US to lower ours. Now we might actually sell more Computers to them when they lower their tariff. And then we in turn will buy more of theirs. Thats what tariffs should do. Create better trade deals for the consumer and businesses in end.

But this based upon FAIR deals and trying to be fair. Opening up other markets should be a goal. Why should Canada charge us 100% tariff on ships and we charge them 10%? Thats foolish trade.

I'm certainly not saying tariffs are wonderful. Im saying tariffs need to be fair. For not just the consumer but for businesses as well.

If I pay $1000 now for a Korean computer and the tariff is 20%, how would I ever pay less even if the companies absorb almost all of the $200 tariff?
I will always pay more for the Korean or another computer unless the companies aborb 100% of the tariffs

essentialsaltes · 2025-08-13T09:28:18-0500

rjs330 said:
Americans will pay more for Korean Computers and thus buy fewer of them. Now Korea might decide to lower their Tariffs

What Korean tariffs?

They were largely, probably entirely, eliminated by the Korea Free Trade Agreement.

Under the renegotiated agreement, the US will be allowed to keep its 2.5 percent tariff for five years, while South Korea would immediately cut its tariff in half to 4 percent. Both sides would eliminate tariffs after five years.

rjs330 · 2025-08-13T23:52:38-0500

iluvatar5150 said:
Who in the US makes computers? Who's even set up to do so? (I assume you're referring to something more than assembling foreign-made parts)

That's the problem with broad, untargeted tariffs - you just raise prices without having an industry on our end to benefit.

Man, I was responding to poster who was using it as an example. I was addressing the situation as presented. Please keep up.

rjs330 · 2025-08-13T23:54:55-0500

essentialsaltes said:
What Korean tariffs?

They were largely, probably entirely, eliminated by the Korea Free Trade Agreement.

Under the renegotiated agreement, the US will be allowed to keep its 2.5 percent tariff for five years, while South Korea would immediately cut its tariff in half to 4 percent. Both sides would eliminate tariffs after five years.

Dude, the example was presented by Mark46. Its an example he presented. Sheesh. Comon' man.

rjs330 · 2025-08-13T23:57:05-0500

mark46 said:
If I pay $1000 now for a Korean computer and the tariff is 20%, how would I ever pay less even if the companies absorb almost all of the $200 tariff?
I will always pay more for the Korean or another computer unless the companies aborb 100% of the tariffs

Dude, if the tariff dropped to 8% you would pay less than the 20%.

mark46 · 2025-08-14T12:00:37-0500

rjs330 said:
Dude, if the tariff dropped to 8% you would pay less than the 20%.

ROFL

Yes, that is the Trump communication strategy.

Threaten a 20% tax and then when the cost goes up by ONLY 8%, the administration says that we are paying less than we would have paid.
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As an aside, I'm sure that today's inflation report will be communicated to be much lower than the 2.7% inflation rate of 2024.

wing2000 · 2025-08-14T12:05:40-0500

mark46 said:
As an aside, I'm sure that today's inflation report will be communicated to be much lower than the 2.7% inflation rate of 2024.

That may be. However, consumers know how much they are paying for their weekly consumables. Trump will try to gaslight them anyway....

mark46 · 2025-08-14T15:46:18-0500

wing2000 said:
That may be. However, consumers know how much they are paying for their weekly consumables. Trump will try to gaslight them anyway....

In the last election cycle, it was Democrats who told voters to ignore what they thought they were paying and to listen instead to national statistics.

Consumer Prices Will Go Down From Day One? Will Gas Prices Go Down 50% Within A Year?

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