The rider on the white horse

AdB · 2025-08-10T08:56:09-0500

Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-10T09:47:49-0500

AdB said:
Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

Dear AdB,
The color "white" is the spirit word (John 6:63) which represents "righteousness". Christ is the only one who is righteous so that necessitates that Christ is the rider of the white horse in both Rev 6:2 and in Rev 19:11-21.

However, there is a difference in what Christ is doing on His white horse in the Rev 6:2 (1st seal) and in Rev 19:11-21.

In the 1st seal, Christ is shown to be riding out to give a small measure of the Spirit to those He has chosen to follow Him. This small measure of the Spirit makes an unbeliever into a believer. The new believer will then be a babe in Christ who is called to be a saint. In this new spiritual condition, the babe will still be spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted. The churches of this world are full of these type of believers. Most of the NT letters were also written to babes who were unconverted and waiting on Christ to "come again" (commonly called His second coming).

The small measure of the Spirit is called the Early Rain in the farming analogy. In the marriage analogy, the small measure of the Spirit is what makes a person into "virgin" who is espoused to Christ.

The apostles were given the small measure of the Spirit when they walked with Christ prior to His crucifixion (as were many others). Paul was given the small measure of the Spirit on the Damascus Road. In both cases, this small measure of the Spirit is what caused them to understand that Jesus was the Christ and submit to His authority (call Him "Lord"). But like all babes, they remained spiritually blind, carnally minded and unconverted.

The verse below applies to when Christ gives a person the small measure of the Spirit and why it is necessary:

1Cor 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Spirit.

In Rev 19:11, Christ is shown to be riding out in judgment on another white horse. This judgment happens to each Elect person just after Christ has returned to them and has given them the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

In the farming analogy, the baptism of the Spirit is called the Latter Rain. In the marriage analogy, it is what make the Bride ready for the marriage to the Lamb. In the parable of the Ten Virgins, it is represented by the extra flask of oil that the wise virgins carry.

The Bride is made ready because the baptism of the Spirit is what gives them their new birth as a child of God and is what heals their spiritual blindness. After their blindness is healed, Christ will spiritually appear to the newly born child of God (their calling AND election has now been confirmed) and will begin their judgment. It is this judgment that is shown in Rev 19:11-21. This judgment is also shown in Mat 24:37-41.

After an Elect person has received both the Early and Latter Rains of the Spirit and has been judged to remove the chaff (all the spiritual things that have made them carnally minded and sinful), the person will be converted and will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.

This is what Christ is teaching here:

Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children (no longer a babe), ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of heaven.

The apostles experienced the second coming of Christ on the Day of Pentecost. This is when their spiritual blindness was healed and when they were converted. Paul experienced the second coming of Christ after his three days in Damascus were complete. This was when Paul's spiritual blindness was healed (scales fell from his eyes) and when he was converted.

Unless a person understands the pathway to salvation that leads an Elect person to their moment of conversion (when the ends of the ages come upon them, 1Cor 10:11), they will not be able to understand the significance of what Christ is doing on His white horse in Rev 6:2 and in Rev 19:11-21.

Joe

AdB · 2025-08-10T09:54:08-0500

Sorry, but your whole elaboration hinges on the color "white" representing "righteousness", but John 6:63 doesn't indicate that, so what Biblical passage do you found that statement on?

Also, even when taking whitenas the colour of righteousness, with for example the bekievers also dressed in white because they have been MADE righteous, then still the first rider doesn't necessarily has to be Christ because the believers are also in white, then an angelic being might also be dressed in white.

And to take it even further, Satan is also called deceitfully "an angel of light" (Lucifer) so the white of the first rider may simply be the deception that this first rider uses to "overcome and conquer" the believers because he is actually representing false messiases

RandyPNW · 2025-08-10T10:41:26-0500

AdB said:
Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

The fact they are both white horses would argue that they are similar, but not the same. I agree with you that they are different.

In many of the visions angels are used to convey the events in very symbolic manner. The white horse of the 4 horsemen appear to be related to angelic activity--not Christ. They involve the 4 living creatures, which appear to be angels displaying various aspects of creation--notably divine judgment. They are predatious, strong, intelligent, and from heaven.

In NT history, divine judgment has already begun in the eternal sense, since the eternal means of escape from judgment has already begun with the Cross. Those who reject that Cross set themselves up for divine judgment both in this life and in the eternal stretch of time.

The 4 horsemen represent the NT era in which this judgment has begun, which will end at Armageddon. And angels are carrying out these historical and final judgments.

The white horse presents the purity of Christian judgment, which separates the wicked out from the righteous for this judgment. In the same way Christ on his white horse displays the purity of God's final judgment.

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-10T10:53:38-0500

AdB said:
Sorry, but your whole elaboration hinges on the color "white" representing "righteousness", but John 6:63 doesn't indicate that, so what Biblical passage do you found that statement on?

Also, even when taking whitenas the colour of righteousness, with for example the bekievers also dressed in white because they have been MADE righteous, then still the first rider doesn't necessarily has to be Christ because the believers are also in white, then an angelic being might also be dressed in white.

And to take it even further, Satan is also called deceitfully "an angel of light" (Lucifer) so the white of the first rider may simply be the deception that this first rider uses to "overcome and conquer" the believers because he is actually representing false messiases

Dear AdB,

Do a word search on the spirit word "white". Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it can be discerned that white represents righteousness. Comparing spiritual words with spiritual words is the way that Paul says to use to find the meanings of Christ's spirit words.

1Cor 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things (words) with spiritual (words).

As for your second comment, converted believers/angels are clothed in white robes which represents that they are clothed in the righteousness of Christ. Believers/angels have no righteousness of their own to claim.

And yes, Satan masquerades has Christ to the babes in the churches of this world but no where in scripture does it say that Satan appears in a white robe or rides a white horse. If scripture doesn't say it, then you should reject that understanding about white applying to Satan.

1Cor 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “Do not go beyond what is written.” Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

The seven seals of Revelation are teaching steps of the pathway to salvation that Christ causes His Elect to travel to their moment of conversion. Like the second coming of Christ is described in the verses below, the opening of the seals are reoccurring spiritual events that happen in the lives of each Elect person as they travel to their moment of conversion.

Rev 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne...

Rev 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Because the spiritual teachings of Revelation are presenting steps of the pathway to salvation, the book says that the Elect will keep the sayings of the prophecy - and that includes becoming apostate like is presented in many of the teachings of Revelation (like in chapter 13 and in the 4th seal).

Rev 1:3 Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, SEAL NOT the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME IS AT HAND.

Christ confirmed this truth in the verses below:

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, it is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by EVERY WORD that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Prov 20:24 Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?

Jer 10:23 I know, Jehovah, that the way of man is not his own; it is not in a man that walketh to direct his steps.

"Every word" includes consuming leavened bread (Mat 13:33 and Mark 8:15-25).

This is all the time I have right now to respond. I may have more time later today if you have any other questions/comments.

Joe

AdB · 2025-08-10T10:58:53-0500

RandyPNW said:
The fact they are both white horses would argue that they are similar, but not the same. I agree with you that they are different.

In many of the visions angels are used to convey the events in very symbolic manner. The white horse of the 4 horsemen appear to be related to angelic activity--not Christ. They involve the 4 living creatures, which appear to be angels displaying various aspects of creation--notably divine judgment. They are predatious, strong, intelligent, and from heaven.

In NT history, divine judgment has already begun in the eternal sense, since the eternal means of escape from judgment has already begun with the Cross. Those who reject that Cross set themselves up for divine judgment both in this life and in the eternal stretch of time.

The 4 horsemen represent the NT era in which this judgment has begun, which will end at Armageddon. And angels are carrying out these historical and final judgments.

The white horse presents the purity of Christian judgment, which separates the wicked out from the righteous for this judgment. In the same way Christ on his white horse displays the purity of God's final judgment.

I tend to think all 4 horsemen represent evil principalities. Firstly because they are all described equally, as if to say "these are of the same kind". This is supported by the remarkable resemblance to the first partbof the Olivet Discourse that als speaks of wars, famines and death, where this first horseman then would coincide with the warning about false christs that will come.
That would mean the whitness of this horse is actually because these false christs are deceitfully presenting themselfs as righteous

Maria Billingsley · 2025-08-10T11:30:35-0500

AdB said:
Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

I would argue that both are Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Both are on a White horse, both are wearing a crown(s), both are carrying a weapon and both conquer. Revelation 19 is not introducing a new concept, it is merely expanding His purpose in detail but now with an army. The Body of Christ. In other words the first is Himself the second is with the Body of believers that create the army. " Put on the full armor of God".
My thoughts...anyway.

Be blessed.

AdB · 2025-08-10T11:35:04-0500

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
Do a word search on the spirit word "white". Then, with the guidance of the Holy Spirit, it can be discerned that white represents righteousness

I asked for a Biblical foundation because only that is what I will accept, as you rightly quote 1 Cor 4:6 "not to go beyond what is written"

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
the opening of the seals are reoccurring spiritual events that happen in the lives of each Elect person as they travel to their moment of conversion

What do you base this premise on? Again, Biblical passages for argument...

AdB · 2025-08-10T12:00:21-0500

Maria Billingsley said:
I would argue that both are Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Both are on a White horse, both are wearing a crown(s), both are carrying a weapon and both conquer. Revelation 19 is not introducing a new concept, it is merely expanding His purpose in detail but now with an army. The Body of Christ. In other words the first is Himself the second is with the Body of believers that create the army. " Put on the full armor of God".
My thoughts...anyway.

Be blessed.

That would be a stretch to see the first seal as Christ's Second Coming...

Also, in Rev 19 the rider is clearly described as an individual and moreover in verse 14 it's clearly stated that the heavenly army follow Him as a separate entity...

Douggg · 2025-08-10T13:57:56-0500

AdB said:
Some claim that the rider on the white horse in Rev 19:11-16 is the same as the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2.

But I would argue that's not the case because:
1. The rider in Rev 19 is introduced as a new concept, being described in much detail.
2. The description of his attire is different
- a singel crown in Rev 6 vs many crowns in Rev 19
- having a bow in Rev 6, but not in Rev 19

What would be the arguments for them still being the same, namely Jesus?

The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 will be a false messianic figure, the Antichrist.

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-10T14:35:19-0500

AdB said:
I asked for a Biblical foundation because only that is what I will accept, as you rightly quote 1 Cor 4:6 "not to go beyond what is written"

What do you base this premise on? Again, Biblical passages for argument...

Dear AdB,
I quoted you what Paul said about comparing spiritual words with spiritual words. That is what a person must do to find the meanings of Christ's spirit words. But again, one must also be guided by the Spirit of Truth to find the correct meanings.

The Spirit of Truth is only given to a believer during their time of conversion. For unconverted babes, they are spiritually blind and have no ability to be guided into the truth. For this reason, Satan has no problem deceiving them.

The Spirit of Truth is what even the apostles required before they could understand the spiritual teachings of Christ.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Have you ever truly considered what the scripture below actually teaches?

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

This scripture above was fulfilled shortly after Paul's death. It was at that time that the spirit of anti-Christ devoured the sheep (babes) in the early churches.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things (like the doctrines of hell and free will), to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Nothing has changed in the church since that time. All new babes will quickly "fall away" and become apostate after being given the small measure of the Spirit (the Early Rain). No babe has any ability to avoid it happening to them since Christ directs everyone's steps. For that reason, it is vital that Christ "come again" with the baptism of the Spirit (the Later Rain) so that His fallen away Elect can be restored and converted.

In the scripture below, Christ teaches this same truth again:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:15-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

Below is a short lesson on Christ's spiritual language and how to understand it:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word SWORD to teach His spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. As Paul said to do, we must compare spiritual words with spiritual words.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spiritual word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual message He is teaching in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit and have been “called to be a saint”), will later perish by the Sword (death of the child of the devil). This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person a second time and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), followed by the Baptism of Fire (judgment):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

As for what I base my understanding of the seven seals of Revelation upon, I base it upon the truth that the Elect must keep the sayings of the prophecy in order to be blessed (saved). Once a person understands the steps of the pathway to salvation, they will be able to see the pathway taught (here a little and there a little) over and over again throughout Christ's New Covenant teachings. The book of Revelation's primary teachings concern the steps that the Elect will travel (keep) to their moment of conversion. The prophecies are certainly not about one-time world events that only happen at the literal end of the age. That understanding is a deception from Satan.

If a believer does not keep the sayings of the prophecy presented in the book of Revelation before they die, they will not be converted and saved. But since Christ is the Savior, He will see to it that all His Elect keep those sayings. It is His responsibility and not the individual's responsibility. In that way, a converted Elect believer has nothing to boast about concerning their salvation. Their salvation was accomplished solely by the work of Christ that He performed within them.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Even a person's faith is a gift from God. Christ leaves nothing up to chance or to the individual's "will" concerning their salvation.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Joe

AdB · 2025-08-10T15:28:19-0500

GreatMysteryofChrist said:
Dear AdB,
I quoted you what Paul said about comparing spiritual words with spiritual words. That is what a person must do to find the meanings of Christ's spirit words. But again, one must also be guided by the Spirit of Truth to find the correct meanings.

The Spirit of Truth is only given to a believer during their time of conversion. For unconverted babes, they are spiritually blind and have no ability to be guided into the truth. For this reason, Satan has no problem deceiving them.

The Spirit of Truth is what even the apostles required before they could understand the spiritual teachings of Christ.

John 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

Have you ever truly considered what the scripture below actually teaches?

Isa 28:9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? Them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (converted believers). 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another language (Christ's spiritual language) will he speak to this people. 12 But the word of the LORD was unto them (babes who draw milk) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken (by Satan).

This scripture above was fulfilled shortly after Paul's death. It was at that time that the spirit of anti-Christ devoured the sheep (babes) in the early churches.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things (like the doctrines of hell and free will), to draw away disciples after them. 31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Nothing has changed in the church since that time. All new babes will quickly "fall away" and become apostate after being given the small measure of the Spirit (the Early Rain). No babe has any ability to avoid it happening to them since Christ directs everyone's steps. For that reason, it is vital that Christ "come again" with the baptism of the Spirit (the Later Rain) so that His fallen away Elect can be restored and converted.

In the scripture below, Christ teaches this same truth again:

Mat 12:43 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself SEVEN other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

The spiritual symbol of an unclean spirit represents a spirit which teaches Satan's false truth through lies and deceptions.

Since a new believer remains spiritually blind (Mark 8:15-25) after receiving the Early Rain of the Spirit, they cannot replace their worldly false beliefs with the truth of Christ. ONE unclean spirit leaves but comes back with SEVEN more. The number "seven" represents perfection. In this case, the number seven represents the perfection of Satan's lies/deceptions which come to a believer by the indwelling of the spirit of anti-Christ. Now, instead of ONE unclean spirit within the believer, they now have EIGHT. The number eight is a spiritual symbol which represents a new spiritual condition. In this case, the new spiritual condition is worse than the first.

This "worse than the first" spiritual condition causes the believer to become a False Prophet, a Man of Sin, a Minister of Satan and a Seven Headed Beast with Ten Horns & Crowns.

Below is a short lesson on Christ's spiritual language and how to understand it:

Mat 26:52 Then said Jesus unto him, put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

Does Christ really mean that if you use a sword to kill others, then you must likewise be killed with a sword? Literally, that is what He is saying. However, if we understand this verse literally, that statement can easily be proven to be false. There are countless examples of people who have used violence to kill others but then do not die from that same type of violence - it almost goes without saying.

Is Christ mistaken or is His message something else?

In Matt 26:52, Christ is using the spirit word SWORD to teach His spiritual message. To understand what this spiritual symbol represents, we must look at how it is used elsewhere in scripture. As Paul said to do, we must compare spiritual words with spiritual words.

Eph 6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any two edge sword...

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword...

From the verses presented above, it is easy to understand that the spiritual word SWORD represents the Word of God who is Christ.

Christ’s hidden spiritual message He is teaching in Matt 26:52 is that all who take up the Sword (those who have been given the Early Rain of the Spirit and have been “called to be a saint”), will later perish by the Sword (death of the child of the devil). This death is a necessary part of the conversion process which happens when the Word of God (Christ, the Sword) comes to a person a second time and gives them the Baptism of the Holy Spirit (Latter Rain), followed by the Baptism of Fire (judgment):

Mat 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with Fire.

As for what I base my understanding of the seven seals of Revelation upon, I base it upon the truth that the Elect must keep the sayings of the prophecy in order to be blessed (saved). Once a person understands the steps of the pathway to salvation, they will be able to see the pathway taught (here a little and there a little) over and over again throughout Christ's New Covenant teachings. The book of Revelation's primary teachings concern the steps that the Elect will travel (keep) to their moment of conversion. The prophecies are certainly not about one-time world events that only happen at the literal end of the age. That understanding is a deception from Satan.

If a believer does not keep the sayings of the prophecy presented in the book of Revelation before they die, they will not be converted and saved. But since Christ is the Savior, He will see to it that all His Elect keep those sayings. It is His responsibility and not the individual's responsibility. In that way, a converted Elect believer has nothing to boast about concerning their salvation. Their salvation was accomplished solely by the work of Christ that He performed within them.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Even a person's faith is a gift from God. Christ leaves nothing up to chance or to the individual's "will" concerning their salvation.

Dan 4:35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of the heavens, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Joe

It's interesting how you seem to apply all these things to one's personal faith journey only. I definitely believe all scripture will also have an application in one's personal life, but I'm also convinced that these texts speak of more global events...

AdB · 2025-08-10T15:29:00-0500

Douggg said:
The rider on the white horse in Revelation 6:2 will be a false messianic figure, the Antichrist.

Or a representation of any false messiah?

Maria Billingsley · 2025-08-10T16:42:53-0500

AdB said:
That would be a stretch to see the first seal as Christ's Second Coming...

Also, in Rev 19 the rider is clearly described as an individual and moreover in verse 14 it's clearly stated that the heavenly army follow Him as a separate entity...

Understood. Its all about the lens we see through.
Thanks for engaging !

Douggg · 2025-08-10T17:24:05-0500

AdB said:
Or a representation of any false messiah?

The Revelation 6:2 rider on the white horse will specifically be the Antichrist.

GreatMysteryofChrist · 2025-08-10T17:36:22-0500

AdB said:
It's interesting how you seem to apply all these things to one's personal faith journey only. I definitely believe all scripture will also have an application in one's personal life, but I'm also convinced that these texts speak of more global events...

Dear AdB,
If even just a few of the end-time events are outward world events that can be seen with human eyes, how could the Elect over the last 1800 years have kept them as scripture says they must to be blessed?

All the end-time prophecies are teaching on the spiritual events that the Elect will keep so that they are converted. For that reason, to understand those teachings, Christ must heal a person's spiritual blindness. Once it is healed, the spiritual teachings of the New Covenant will open up to their understanding.

The only event in prophecy that has not yet been fulfilled is the bodily resurrection from the grave. That resurrection will occur at the literal end of this age. At that time, all mankind will be separated as sheep from goats. The sheep will inherit the promises made to Abraham and will reign upon the earth with Christ as His Bride. The purpose for their reign is to judge the goats. But before any of the goats perish (the true penalty of sin), Christ will have mercy upon them and will freely give them the faith they need to be saved.

This scripture applies to their time of judgment in the Lake of Fire:

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law: justice, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Justice is satisfied by the death of the child of the Devil (who the person used to be). But before that death occurs, each person will be "born again" and made into a new creation who is free from sin and not condemned by the Law. The work of giving a person their new birth prior to the death of their old self (the child of the Devil) is called conversion. It is by Christ's work of conversion that He will save all mankind.

In the end, all mankind will be converted into children of God and only then will the ages come to an end.

1Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; 4 who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Being made into a child of God is the meaning of life and the purpose for this creation. To believe that Christ is going to fail to save even one person makes Christ out to be a failure in accomplishing His Father's "will". This, of course, cannot happen. Christ is the Savior and He was given the full authority and power to save each and every person who has ever lived - but every man in his own order:

1Cor 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24 Then cometh the consummation, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. 27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. 28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

As I have been saying, all the end-time prophecies are teaching on the steps of how Christ will save mankind. He saves a person by His spiritual works that happen within them. The end-time events are not outward, world events. To believe that they are is a carnal understanding of God's Word.

Joe

AdB · 2025-08-11T02:28:02-0500

Two takeaways I get from your elaborations...
1. The multi-step process to real salvation sound quite like mysticism to me
2. The Bible is clear that there will be multitudes that will NOT be reconciled with God contrary to what you seem to state

But I'd like to stop this specific discussion here because this thread is about a totally different subject...

3 Resurrections · 2025-08-11T07:17:01-0500

This white horse rider in Revelation 6:2 "went forth conquering and to conquer". This is reminiscent of the verse which tells us "We are more than conquerors through Him that loved us..." (Romans 8:37).

Didn't the ascending Christ tell His disciples in Matthew 28:18-19 just before He left, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore and teach all nations..." The "conquering" that Christ the white horse rider in Rev. 6:2 was pictured as doing was the evangelistic work being done with Christ's power starting with the early church in Jerusalem, and spreading out from there to the nations.

The single crown given to this Rev. 6:2 white horse rider was the crown of His high priesthood. This high priest crown was given to Christ by the Ancient of Days on the morning of His resurrection-day ascension to heaven. The Son of Man was brought near before the Ancient of Days, and was given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom.

The "many crowns" given to the white horse rider Christ in Revelation 19:12 were going to be confiscated later from a defeated Satan who had once boasted to Christ in the wilderness temptation about his having the power and glory of all the kingdoms of this world (Luke 4:5-6).

JulieB67 · 2025-08-11T07:33:40-0500

The first seal is meant to show us the fake Christ arrives first on the scene. Yes, he is similar. But that's the point. He will mimic the Messiah. But we are shown the differences. If people are not careful they could fall away to the fake believing he is the true Christ. Especially those waiting on Christ to arrive first. (foolish Virgins, etc..)

AdB · 2025-08-11T09:27:15-0500

3 Resurrections said:
This white horse rider in Revelation 6:2 "went forth conquering and to conquer". This is reminiscent of the verse which tells us "We are more than conquerors through Him that loved us..." (Romans 8:37).

Didn't the ascending Christ tell His disciples in Matthew 28:18-19 just before He left, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore and teach all nations..." The "conquering" that Christ the white horse rider in Rev. 6:2 was pictured as doing was the evangelistic work being done with Christ's power starting with the early church in Jerusalem, and spreading out from there to the nations.

The single crown given to this Rev. 6:2 white horse rider was the crown of His high priesthood. This high priest crown was given to Christ by the Ancient of Days on the morning of His resurrection-day ascension to heaven. The Son of Man was brought near before the Ancient of Days, and was given dominion, and glory, and a kingdom.

The "many crowns" given to the white horse rider Christ in Revelation 19:12 were going to be confiscated later from a defeated Satan who had once boasted to Christ in the wilderness temptation about his having the power and glory of all the kingdoms of this world (Luke 4:5-6).

This is a sound elaboration...
And looking at it in that way the bow may point to His conquest of the world is in an indirect manner through the believers, and also cgoing through the air" as indication of the work of the Holy Spirit...

Food for thought

The rider on the white horse

Heb 11:1

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist

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That's 666 YEARS, folks

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