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Energy chief suggests Trump administration is altering previously published climate reports; staff for next iteration all fired already

Larniavc

"Encourage him to keep talking. He's hilarious."
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Since we didn't create it, we cant stop it.
Entirely untrue. Why are the big problems of America (guns, health, education, drugs, climate change etc) always something where ‘nothing can be done?

This is why America fixates on culture wars; better forever complaining about pointless toilet based, clothe wearing, income inequalities, climate changing, sexual orientations than actually doing something constructive to make life better for every day Americans.

It’s so much less effort to say ‘nothing can be done!’ Than to get off your duff and DO SOMETHING.
 
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Tuur

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We're not talking about policy differences. We're talking about cooking the books and changing the assessment.
Hate to tell you, but "book cooking" has been a thing for a looong time.. For a recent example, remember how the CDC initially panned the general use of face masks? It wasn't just because there wasn't a sufficient supply at that moment. The CDC initially pointed out that they had to be put on and off properly with clean hands and not fiddled with constantly, all of which had the potential of bringing contaminated hands to the eyes and nose. The initial assessment was that misapplication would increase the risk of infection. Remember what happened next? There was a huge outcry because the CDC didn't advise masking. What did the CDC do next? Reversed itself and recommended masking.

Do you remember how people actually masked? How many did you see who had their mouth covered but not their nose? How many did you see who's masks were gapped? How many did you see who constantly fiddled with them and even put them down on common surfaces? A contaminated mask put down on a table that more than one person used. Nice. In short, what the CDC first said would happen pretty much did.

You say the Trump administration is "cooking the books?" I say that's been standard operating procedure since before I was born. I'd be more shocked if that wasn't going on that if it is.
 
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Tuur

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We're not talking about policy differences. We're talking about cooking the books and changing the assessment.
Another, separate, point:

For a long time I've been involved in making various projections for the company where I work. Each time I look at the data and make various models and make projections from that. The projections I make each year supersede the previous ones. If you want to say that's because my previous projections are wrong, I'll agree and say we're a non-prophet organization. At best our projections are educated guesses. Each year I have a sound basis for the projections, but things beyond those numbers change them. The goal is to get it as close to what actually transpires as possible.

The important thing to remember is all these climate assessments are created by people. James Hansen didn't receive them on stone tablets at the top of Mount Sinai. Al Gore didn't receive them in a vision. These assessments aren't scripture, or shouldn't be. If even in an academic setting they aren't periodically revised, you have to wonder why. That's even with the assumption that they don't change for political purposes.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Oh, No’s. He is suggesting it! Oh my, that is a definite maybe.

I suggest they put up or shut up. Main stream media is being reduced to a day time talk show with people yelling Jerry, Jerry on forums.
 
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essentialsaltes

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essentialsaltes

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Another, separate, point:

For a long time I've been involved in making various projections for the company where I work. Each time I look at the data and make various models and make projections from that. The projections I make each year supersede the previous ones.

Certainly, and the company, like the government, relies on the most recent estimates and forecasts for current decision making.

But I presume you don't alter the documents from last year to make your previous estimates look better in order to justify yourself.

It is Orwellian.

We have always been at war with offshore wind energy.
 
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Nithavela

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Then what's the worry about?
As you yourself demonstrated, not many people know about the internet archive and the possibility to access things that have been removed from their website.

Besides that, the internet archive has also been targeted by DOGE, although it remains functional so far.

 
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ozso

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As you yourself demonstrated, not many people know about the internet archive and the possibility to access things that have been removed from their website.

Besides that, the internet archive has also been targeted by DOGE, although it remains functional so far.

I think maybe you misunderstood. It's not likely that the reports only exist on a public website. Whereas it is likely that several sources have their own separate copy of the reports. So the original reports aren't going to disappear from the face of the earth.
 
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Nithavela

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I think maybe you misunderstood. It's not likely that the reports only exist on a public website. Whereas it is likely that several sources have their own separate copy of the reports. So the original reports aren't going to disappear from the face of the earth.
They will be harder to access, though.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Hate to tell you, but "book cooking" has been a thing for a looong time.. For a recent example, remember how the CDC initially panned the general use of face masks? It wasn't just because there wasn't a sufficient supply at that moment. The CDC initially pointed out that they had to be put on and off properly with clean hands and not fiddled with constantly, all of which had the potential of bringing contaminated hands to the eyes and nose. The initial assessment was that misapplication would increase the risk of infection. Remember what happened next? There was a huge outcry because the CDC didn't advise masking. What did the CDC do next? Reversed itself and recommended masking.

Do you remember how people actually masked? How many did you see who had their mouth covered but not their nose? How many did you see who's masks were gapped? How many did you see who constantly fiddled with them and even put them down on common surfaces? A contaminated mask put down on a table that more than one person used. Nice. In short, what the CDC first said would happen pretty much did.

You say the Trump administration is "cooking the books?" I say that's been standard operating procedure since before I was born. I'd be more shocked if that wasn't going on that if it is.
This is all completely irrelevant. You are comparing an assessment made about a rapidly changing short term crisis with something that has been studied carefully for decades.
 
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rjs330

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Entirely untrue.
True.
Why are the big problems of America (guns, health, education, drugs, climate change etc) always something where ‘nothing can be done?
Literally no one is,saying nothing can be done about any of those things. The argument is about what should be done in a country that is about freedom for the individual. Since this thread is about Climate change, I can ignore the other topics.

We've been told many times that we are past the point of no return. If that is true then the question is what should we be focusing on? If climate change is inevitable then we are wasting our money, energy and resources on the wrong things. Instead of building windmills in the ocean and doing harm to the sea life, we should be focused on building food production in this new world. Instead of taking away everyone's air-conditioner we should be finding ways to mitigate the impact of heat, particularly in the cities. If sea levels are rising and are going to cause great devastation to coastal cities then we should be focusing on engineering to mitigate that instead of trying to make energy more costly.
Than to get off your duff and DO SOMETHING.
Doing something is not the same thing as doing the correct thing.

Doing something leads to the creation of more problems that have to be solved. Then we get a shotgun approach that actually solves little. It just makes some people feel good while accomplishing little and usually just costs boatload of money.
 
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Always in His Presence

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Trump's Secretary of Energy suggested it. They quoted him accurately.
They did?

How do you know that? I looked y your link. They have the document, didn’t show it.
 
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Hans Blaster

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They did?

How do you know that? I looked y your link. They have the document, didn’t show it.
The Secretary is reported as actually saying he plans to do those things on the record. The article *is* the document of those plans.
 
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Tuur

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This is all completely irrelevant. You are comparing an assessment made about a rapidly changing short term crisis with something that has been studied carefully for decades.
Epidemiology has been studied decades longer. The initial CDC rejection was based on what was well known: touching eyes, nose, and mouth with contaminated hands can infect a person. The CDC reversal came about before any great change in information about the virus itself, so it wasn't like you suddenly couldn't get it by having the virus on your hands and touching your eyes, nose, and mouth. No, the CDC reversal came after public outcry, even though the human behavior the CDC feared in its initial advisement proved spot on. Properly worn, masking helped contain infection by preventing the spread of droplets from the mouth and nose. That's been known since surgeons first started masking up. The point of the first CDC advisory was that people not knowing what they were doing would make it worse.

Surely you noticed people masking their mouths and leaving their nose uncovered. Surely you noticed people masking without so much as using hand sanitizer. Surely you noticed people putting masks down on public tables, then putting them back on. Surely you noticed people fiddling with them, again without sanitizing their hands before or after. That was the initial concern of the CDC. That was before they reversed themselves on the public masking.

The point is that government advisories can and do change with the political winds. The CDC reversal on masking is a good example. The solution is to have a fifty pound block of salt handy when going over such. But don't worry: When the Democrats go back in, it will all change again, probably more to the liking of some here. There it will be until administrations change again. That's how such things work.
 
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Always in His Presence

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The Secretary is reported as actually saying he plans to do those things on the record. The article *is* the document of those plans.
Yes, he is reported as saying that. The president was reported saying that he was going to replace him also.

They have the documents according to their own reporting. They have not released the original documents, but gave us some mission of the points they think are important.

How many times do people have to be embarrassed by be believing this kind of stuff and it never happens
 
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Tuur

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Certainly, and the company, like the government, relies on the most recent estimates and forecasts for current decision making.
After seeing how the government fouled up a mid-census population estimate, and how it was fouled it up, I certainly hope not. The last time I relied on government numbers, my forecast was way off. For one reason, the information wasn't "fine grained" enough. The second was that botched mid-census population estimate. In comparison, our own data is more finely grained and quicker to show trends.

But I presume you don't alter the documents from last year to make your previous estimates look better in order to justify yourself.

It is Orwellian.
Of course not. Neither has, at least in this instance, the government. Instead of altering previous documents, they removed them. A more correct term, also Orwellian, is memory holing. That's different than altering documents and leaving them up.

We have always been at war with offshore wind energy.
Only if it's within sight of some politician's beach house.
 
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Hans Blaster

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Epidemiology has been studied decades longer.
For a novel virus? I think not.
The initial CDC rejection was based on what was well known: touching eyes, nose, and mouth with contaminated hands can infect a person. The CDC reversal came about before any great change in information about the virus itself, so it wasn't like you suddenly couldn't get it by having the virus on your hands and touching your eyes, nose, and mouth. No, the CDC reversal came after public outcry, even though the human behavior the CDC feared in its initial advisement proved spot on. Properly worn, masking helped contain infection by preventing the spread of droplets from the mouth and nose. That's been known since surgeons first started masking up. The point of the first CDC advisory was that people not knowing what they were doing would make it worse.

Surely you noticed people masking their mouths and leaving their nose uncovered. Surely you noticed people masking without so much as using hand sanitizer. Surely you noticed people putting masks down on public tables, then putting them back on. Surely you noticed people fiddling with them, again without sanitizing their hands before or after. That was the initial concern of the CDC. That was before they reversed themselves on the public masking.

The point is that government advisories can and do change with the political winds. The CDC reversal on masking is a good example. The solution is to have a fifty pound block of salt handy when going over such. But don't worry: When the Democrats go back in, it will all change again, probably more to the liking of some here. There it will be until administrations change again. That's how such things work.
Whatever that was all about, it is clear from even your own post that information about the spread of the virus was evolving unlike climate change where we have known the basic pattern for at least 3 decades.
 
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