No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

Hentenza · Friday at 5:34 PM

Brightfame52 said:
Deciding to accept something, is a work !

Exegesis these verses for me. Please use proper hermeneutical techniques.

“Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe. Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭35‬-‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 6:35-40 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet y | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet y

bible.com

How do you reconcile the verses above. Jesus says that anyone that the father gives Him will come to Him which speaks to those that God draws to Him which is not a human action. On the other side of the coin Jesus teaches that ALL that see Him AND believe in Him have eternal life (a human action). Is everyone that see Him and believe in Him being saved by works just because they see Him and believed in Him?

zoidar · Friday at 5:47 PM

A New Dawn said:
They are responses.

What I can see the only scholar who agrees with you is Matthew Henry, who is a Calvinist, who says "faith" is included in "works" when pertaining to election, but not justification, which by itself is a confusing statement. It's not clear from what you quoted exactly what the others believe pertaining "grace" and "works" in Romans 11:5-6, but they seem to view "works" as merit-based actions, not non-meritorious responses such as faith or admitting the need for mercy.

Paul consistently contrasts "works" with "faith" which only makes sense if "works" refers to merit-based action, not the act of receiving grace.

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-09T04:43:46-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
Your childishness doesn't help you. You show that you are just a child, so I will treat you like the child you are.

More of your insults, doesnt help you

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-09T04:47:39-0500

Spiritual Jew said:
Wrong. Faith is contrasted with works in Ephesians 2:8-9. Why do you just ignore that? When Paul said salvation is not by works, he obviously wasn't talking about faith because he said salvation IS through faith. But, NOT by works. So, faith isn't a work in that sense. That's why when the jailer asked Paul and Silas what he needed to do to be saved, they didn't answer that there was nothing he could do, as you would answer if you were consistent with your doctrine. Instead, they said "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” (Acts 16:30-31).

Sorry works covers a very broad spectrum, it covers all conditions and qualifications you must act or do. So if you believe your accepting a gift is required for salvation, thats works, and disqualifies you for Grace Salvation

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-09T04:57:13-0500

Hentenza said:
Exegesis these verses for me. Please use proper hermeneutical techniques.

“Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet you do not believe. Everything that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I certainly will not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that of everything that He has given Me I will lose nothing, but will raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.””
‭‭John‬ ‭6‬:‭35‬-‭40‬ ‭NASB2020‬‬

John 6:35-40 Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet y | New American Standard Bible - NASB

Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life; the one who comes to Me will not be hungry, and the one who believes in Me will never be thirsty. But I said to you that you have indeed seen Me, and yet y

bible.com

How do you reconcile the verses above. Jesus says that anyone that the father gives Him will come to Him which speaks to those that God draws to Him which is not a human action. On the other side of the coin Jesus teaches that ALL that see Him AND believe in Him have eternal life (a human action). Is everyone that see Him and believe in Him being saved by works just because they see Him and believed in Him?

I dont need to reconciled anything, but accepting something is a work you do, an action, deed by you, and so it isn't grace, period. Now if you talking about actions you do following being saved, then those are evidences of being in a saved state.

A New Dawn · 2025-08-09T05:56:08-0500

zoidar said:
What I can see the only scholar who agrees with you is Matthew Henry, who is a Calvinist, who says "faith" is included in "works" when pertaining to election, but not justification, which by itself is a confusing statement. It's not clear from what you quoted exactly what the others believe pertaining "grace" and "works" in Romans 11:5-6, but they seem to view "works" as merit-based actions, not non-meritorious responses such as faith or admitting the need for mercy.

Paul consistently contrasts "works" with "faith" which only makes sense if "works" refers to merit-based action, not the act of receiving grace.

I already explained why I posted the commentaries, in response to you saying ‘works’ in that verse (Romans 11:6) specifically means “works of the law”. That was YOUR statement from post #752. The commentaries speak nothing of the law when commenting about that verse. Paul says nothing about the law in that passage. He is speaking to gentiles, not Jews. Jews had the body of laws that laid out what one must do in order to obtain eternal life. Gentiles didn’t have a set of laws like that, so there would be no need for Paul to talk about the law to them. But there are other works that one attaches to things. Free will salvation requires a work (accepting or rejecting the gift God gives you). That’s what free will means. You choose.

zoidar · 2025-08-09T06:04:09-0500

A New Dawn said:
I already explained why I posted the commentaries, in response to you saying ‘works’ in that verse (Romans 11:6) specifically means “works of the law”. That was YOUR statement from post # . The commentaries speak nothing of the law when commenting about that verse. Paul says nothing about the law in that passage. He is speaking to gentiles, not Jews.

Thank you for explaining! Btw, in Adam Clark's commentary it's also understood as the Mosaic Law. I don't know how far we get from comparing commentaries. "Works of the Law" is in my estimation a reasonable translation. Why? Paul might be speaking to Gentiles, but he is speaking about Jews.

A New Dawn · 2025-08-09T06:10:11-0500

zoidar said:
Thank you for explaining!

I did edit my post, if you want to check it out, to further explain why t he verse is necessary to the discussion.

A New Dawn · 2025-08-09T06:25:29-0500

zoidar said:
Thank you for explaining! Btw, in Adam Clark's commentary it's also understood as the Mosaic Law. I don't know how far we get from comparing commentaries. "Works of the Law" is in my estimation a reasonable translation. Why? Paul might be speaking to Gentiles, but he is speaking about Jews.

If Paul was speaking to me about the law, I would totally ignore him since I am not a Jew, and the law is for the Jews.

If Paul is speaking to me about salvation being a free gift, meaning I had to do nothing to receive it, then the law is not important to the discussion.

zoidar · 2025-08-09T06:59:17-0500

A New Dawn said:
... Free will salvation requires a work (accepting or rejecting the gift God gives you). That’s what free will means. You choose.

Why do you consider it a work to choose? Mind you we are talking from how Paul uses the word "work", not from our everyday usage.

A New Dawn · 2025-08-09T07:22:52-0500

zoidar said:
Why do you consider it a work to choose? Mind you we are talking from how Paul uses the word "work", not from our everyday usage.

Because the Bible is clear, in many places, that salvation is a work that God accomplishes in us at His pleasure. If he changes our heart, then there is no need to accept (or reject) it, it is a finished task on God’s part. He changes my heart, He gifts me saving faith, He changes my will so it is in alignment with His own. I can’t accept it because it is already who I am.

Hentenza · 2025-08-09T08:04:19-0500

Brightfame52 said:
I dont need to reconciled anything, but accepting something is a work you do, an action, deed by you, and so it isn't grace, period. Now if you talking about actions you do following being saved, then those are evidences of being in a saved state.

I guess you can’t do an exegesis of the verses I posted. Got it.

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-09T08:08:44-0500

Hentenza said:
I guess you can’t do an exegesis of the verses I posted. Got it.

I could but im not. Accepting something is a work, if we base our salvation with God on anything we DO, its a work base salvation void of Grace !

Hentenza · 2025-08-09T08:17:26-0500

Brightfame52 said:
I could but im not.

So why are you in a debate forum?

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-09T08:18:06-0500

zoidar said:
Why do you consider it a work to choose? Mind you we are talking from how Paul uses the word "work", not from our everyday usage.

Why not consider it so ? Its something done by the person. The greek word for works Paul used in ergon:

deed, doing, labor, work.
From a primary (but obsolete) ergo (to work); toil (as an effort or occupation); by implication, an act -- deed, doing, labour, work.

2041 érgon (from ergō, "to work, accomplish") – a work or worker who accomplishes something. 2041 /érgon ("work") is a deed (action) that carries out (completes) an inner desire (intension, purpose).

any product whatever, anything accomplished by hand, art, industry, mind

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-09T08:19:49-0500

Hentenza said:
So why are you in a debate forum?

I have been setting forth my views. Debating isnt me exegeting all your scripture, do it yourself to prove your view.

Hentenza · 2025-08-09T08:45:37-0500

Brightfame52 said:
I have been setting forth my views. Debating isnt me exegeting all your scripture, do it yourself to prove your view.

Is your OP and your burden of proof.

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-09T09:05:38-0500

Hentenza said:
Is your OP and your burden of proof.

Im not exegeting nothing for you, that's your burden of proof. The things Im presenting, I have studied. Im not going to study your stuff, besides you not listening to my views anyway

Hentenza · 2025-08-09T09:11:09-0500

Brightfame52 said:
Im not exegeting nothing for you, that's your burden of proof. The things Im presenting, I have studied. Im not going to study your stuff, besides you not listening to my views anyway

Your OP, your burden of proof. I gave you simple verses to look at and you refused to address them. It doesn’t seem that you had much study.

Brightfame52 · 2025-08-09T13:41:36-0500

Hentenza said:
Your OP, your burden of proof. I gave you simple verses to look at and you refused to address them. It doesn’t seem that you had much study.

Why address them ? Im sticking to what I posted. I dont have to explain everything you go round up

No person can come to Christ by their own freewill !

I will fear no evil for You are with me

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Bind my wandering heart to thee!

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Bind my wandering heart to thee!

Bind my wandering heart to thee!

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Bind my wandering heart to thee!

I will fear no evil for You are with me

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

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I will fear no evil for You are with me

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