Hegseth to Return Memorial Biden Tore Down in Arlington National Cemetery

A New Dawn · 2025-08-08T10:26:51-0500

Hans Blaster said:
Do you mean "liberals"? That is my "side". (I now consider myself a Democrat, but that is something that happened for me this year.)

All things liberals have opposed.

This is some weird GOP talking point/fantasy. It has no connection to reality.

YOUR side is fighting for it as we speak. Heaven forbid we remove able-bodied persons off the welfare rolls, or any of the other govt. assistance rolls, or suggest they actually go out and get a job or even volunteer somewhere for a few hours a week. There is a reason the assistance programs need reform, because they, by and large, ignore the requirements for people to work in order to get assistance. This leads to lots of fraud and abuse (and don’t deny it because we all know people who refuse to work because they can get more money from the govt. if they don’t), and costs the federal govt. $800B a year, and the states $300B a year.

It’s sad that the left would rather let the poor wallow in poverty and not choose reform than vote for reform and create programs that would give them the skills to lift themselves out of poverty.

There’s an old saying: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he‘ll feed himself for life.

essentialsaltes · 2025-08-08T10:46:01-0500

invocation at the unveiling

"Grant, O Lord, that this enduring bronze may speak to the generations to come of the intense love of liberty that animated our brothers who fought and fell under the banner of the
Southern Cross. May it be a perpetual reminder of their un- c[uenchable valor—of their lofty patriotism—of their heroic constancy—[etc.etc.]

"Blessed be Thy name that we are now able to recognize that their valor and their devotion were not in vain—that their heroic blood was not shed to no purpose. Though their banner sank in defeat, we believe, O Lord, that they won a sublime moral victory, whose luster will never grow dim.

Let our children, and our children's children, as they stand before this memorial of the Confed- erate Soldier, have borne in upon their spirits the sublime truth that fidelity [sic] is better than success

[Commander of the Confederate Veterans]
"I am sure that I shall not offend the proprieties of either the hour or the occasion when I say that we still glory in the records of our beloved and immortal dead. The dead, for whom this monument stands sponsor, died for what they be- lieved to be right. Their surviving comrades and their chil- dren still believe, that that for v/hich they suffered and laid down their lives was just—that their premises in the civil war were according to our Constitution.

The sword said the South was wrong, but the sword is not
necessarily guided by conscience and reason. The power of numbers and the longest guns can not destroy principle, nor obliterate truth. Right lives forever.

[A more conciliatory tone from the GAR]
"This memorial structure speaks the language of peace and good-will. Itsaystoallwhocomehitherandreadthesuper- scription that the swords and bayonets that once gleamed along the battle's fiery front have been 'beaten into plowshares and pruning hooks.' It declares through the symbolical wreath of unfading laurel held in outstretched hand above the sleeping dead that the spirit of heroic devotion and lofty self-sacrifice which they manifested is held in grateful and affectionate memory.

Say it aint so · 2025-08-08T11:08:48-0500

How the US handled the end of the Civil war was a mistake. Even though nowadays it's bantered about every time someone clutches their pearls, but what the Confederates enacted is the exact definition of treason. They should have trialed the leaders for treason. No section at Arlington. No monuments. No more confederate flag. Just like those like General Lee asked not to erect any statues and the confederate flag be stowed away to move the country forward. But no, we ignored them and look at what we're arguing about.

Hans Blaster · 2025-08-08T12:19:55-0500

A New Dawn said:
YOUR side is fighting for it as we speak. Heaven forbid we remove able-bodied persons off the welfare rolls, or any of the other govt. assistance rolls, or suggest they actually go out and get a job or even volunteer somewhere for a few hours a week. There is a reason the assistance programs need reform, because they, by and large, ignore the requirements for people to work in order to get assistance. This leads to lots of fraud and abuse (and don’t deny it because we all know people who refuse to work because they can get more money from the govt. if they don’t), and costs the federal govt. $800B a year, and the states $300B a year.

It’s sad that the left would rather let the poor wallow in poverty and not choose reform than vote for reform and create programs that would give them the skills to lift themselves out of poverty.

There’s an old saying: Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he‘ll feed himself for life.

This thread is not about welfare policy. It is about memorialization of confederate traitors. We liberals have been against the confederates since they started the little rebellion, regardless of our party or other policies. (And plenty of conservatives have been been against them too from the beginning, but alas their moral character has fallen into great decay of late.)

A New Dawn · 2025-08-08T12:28:57-0500

Hans Blaster said:
This thread is not about welfare policy. It is about memorialization of confederate traitors. We liberals have been against the confederates since they started the little rebellion, regardless of our party or other policies. (And plenty of conservatives have been been against them too from the beginning, but alas their moral character has fallen into great decay of late.)

I quoted your post saying what I said is a far-fetched idea, which tied into the other things the Dems did to keep the black population down. I was just responding to that.

Pommer · 2025-08-08T15:23:32-0500

A New Dawn said:
I quoted your post saying what I said is a far-fetched idea, which tied into the other things the Dems did to keep the black population down. I was just responding to that.

Yes, we can’t give poor people money to “help” them, as they’ll just become dependent on that.
OTOH, we can give tax breaks to the rich because maybe they’ll use the savings to create more jobs.

Hasn’t worked in the 45 years it has been tried but maybe it’ll work going forward?

A New Dawn · 2025-08-08T17:47:00-0500

Pommer said:
Yes, we can’t give poor people money to “help” them, as they’ll just become dependent on that.
OTOH, we can give tax breaks to the rich because maybe they’ll use the savings to create more jobs.

Hasn’t worked in the 45 years it has been tried but maybe it’ll work going forward?

So the goal was to just give them enough money to stay poor but not enough to help them become contributing members of society. Great.

And yes the tax breaks worked because many businesses brought their factories back from overseas and 1.9 million jobs were added through 2019, but then when the Dems shut everything down millions of jobs were lost.

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-08-09T08:11:01-0500

Always in His Presence said:
Yeah, that is the long debunked myth.

And the Klan was self identified as the militant arm of the Democic Party

That is history also.

Why does it matter who was a Democrat or Republican during the Civil War?

The real question is: should Americans honor those who renounced their citizenship, formed a new nation, and attacked the United States?

FAITH-IN-HIM · 2025-08-09T08:23:01-0500

essentialsaltes said:
invocation at the unveiling

"Grant, O Lord, that this enduring bronze may speak to the generations to come of the intense love of liberty that animated our brothers who fought and fell under the banner of the
Southern Cross. May it be a perpetual reminder of their un- c[uenchable valor—of their lofty patriotism—of their heroic constancy—[etc.etc.]

"Blessed be Thy name that we are now able to recognize that their valor and their devotion were not in vain—that their heroic blood was not shed to no purpose. Though their banner sank in defeat, we believe, O Lord, that they won a sublime moral victory, whose luster will never grow dim.

Let our children, and our children's children, as they stand before this memorial of the Confed- erate Soldier, have borne in upon their spirits the sublime truth that fidelity [sic] is better than success

[Commander of the Confederate Veterans]
"I am sure that I shall not offend the proprieties of either the hour or the occasion when I say that we still glory in the records of our beloved and immortal dead. The dead, for whom this monument stands sponsor, died for what they be- lieved to be right. Their surviving comrades and their chil- dren still believe, that that for v/hich they suffered and laid down their lives was just—that their premises in the civil war were according to our Constitution.

The sword said the South was wrong, but the sword is not
necessarily guided by conscience and reason. The power of numbers and the longest guns can not destroy principle, nor obliterate truth. Right lives forever.

[A more conciliatory tone from the GAR]
"This memorial structure speaks the language of peace and good-will. Itsaystoallwhocomehitherandreadthesuper- scription that the swords and bayonets that once gleamed along the battle's fiery front have been 'beaten into plowshares and pruning hooks.' It declares through the symbolical wreath of unfading laurel held in outstretched hand above the sleeping dead that the spirit of heroic devotion and lofty self-sacrifice which they manifested is held in grateful and affectionate memory.

Though these words are beautiful, they are entirely inappropriate. Placing such inscriptions under the statues of figures like Hermann Göring or Admiral Yamamoto, especially at sensitive sites like Pearl Harbor, would be deeply offensive given their histories.

The same applies to Confederate soldiers who took up arms against the United States. What is so notable that fellow Americans consider this appropriate.

Akita Suggagaki · 2025-08-09T08:33:15-0500

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
Though these words are beautiful, they are entirely inappropriate. Placing such inscriptions under the statues of figures like Hermann Göring or Admiral Yamamoto, especially at sensitive sites like Pearl Harbor, would be deeply offensive given their histories.

The same applies to Confederate soldiers who took up arms against the United States. What is so notable that fellow Americans consider this appropriate.

It is breathtakingly inappropriate.

"Blessed be Thy name that we are now able to recognize that their valor and their devotion were not in vain—that their heroic blood was not shed to no purpose. Though their banner sank in defeat, we believe, O Lord, that they won a sublime moral victory, whose luster will never grow dim."

What in the world is being referred to as a moral victory?

essentialsaltes · 2025-08-09T09:19:33-0500

Akita Suggagaki said:
What in the world is being referred to as a moral victory?

I believe it connects to that next statement. That it's better to remain faithful to the lost cause than to win.

Always in His Presence · 2025-08-09T10:43:01-0500

FAITH-IN-HIM said:
The real question is: should Americans honor those who renounced their citizenship, formed a new nation, and attacked the United States?

It was put before the people who experience it - who lived through the trauma of war. The President at the time along with Congress said yes -

who are we to reverse the sentiment , over 100 years later of the people who lived through it? Perhaps they saw something we didn't.

BTW - it was and act of Congress working with the President who built (by a Jewish artist) and placed the monument. Who removed it? Congress? no -

essentialsaltes · 2025-08-09T10:52:11-0500

Always in His Presence said:
Who removed it? Congress? no -

Congress yes.

More than three years ago, an overwhelming bipartisan majority in Congress passed a bill mandating the removal of all Confederate symbols from military property by Jan. 1, 2024.

Who's putting it back? Congress? no -

Always in His Presence · 2025-08-09T10:53:43-0500

From the link:

You probably remember the removal last December. Tucked neatly between headlines about inflation, border chaos, and the latest round of DEI appointments, the Pentagon quietly took down the Reconciliation Monument — a 109-year-old sculpture commissioned in an era of healing, built by Moses Ezekiel, a Jewish-American Civil War veteran who also happened to be buried nearby.

No debate. No vote. Just poof — gone.

Why? Because the monument dared to acknowledge that, after the bloodiest war in American history, some people believed in moving forward. Because it honored Confederate dead not as heroes, but as fellow Americans buried on U.S. soil. Because it referenced reconciliation — something that apparently doesn’t fit in today’s progressive glossary.

Always in His Presence · 2025-08-09T10:56:09-0500

essentialsaltes said:
Congress yes.

More than three years ago, an overwhelming bipartisan majority in Congress passed a bill mandating the removal of all Confederate symbols from military property by Jan. 1, 2024.

Who's putting it back? Congress? no -

Cite the bill - not a left propaganda piece please.

essentialsaltes · 2025-08-09T11:02:48-0500

Always in His Presence said:
Cite the bill - not a left propaganda piece please.

National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021

Always in His Presence · 2025-08-09T11:16:34-0500

essentialsaltes said:
National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2021

View attachment 368311

Thank you. Since they are removing all "names, symbols, displays, monuments and paraphernalia"

Will they be digging up the bodies, or just removing their headstones making them unmarked graves? There is an entire section of Arlington dedicated to the 482 Confederates buried there. Including Moses Jacob Ezekiel the artist who did the monument.

How about Oak Woods Cemetary in Chicago where there are 4,000+ buried with grave markers and a memorial.

How about Hollywood Cemetary? 18,000 headstones various smaller monuments, when will they be removed.

The list goes on

essentialsaltes · 2025-08-09T11:21:55-0500

Always in His Presence said:
Will they be digging up the bodies, or just removing their headstones making them unmarked graves?

Will Hegseth be returning the monument that was removed by a law passed by Congress?

Always in His Presence · 2025-08-09T11:42:49-0500

essentialsaltes said:
Will Hegseth be returning the monument that was removed by a law passed by Congress?

It is an act - not a law.

Edit*** it was vetoed by Trump but ratified by congress - my apologies

And yes, the new administration is within it's rights and powers to do so - just like the last one was within their rights to go against a 109 year old act and remove them.

Can you now answer my question - do you support the removal of the monument as written in Bidens Act (not law). If so - what do we do with hundreds of thousands of grave markers, headstones and monuments that contain "names, symbols and displays"?

essentialsaltes · 2025-08-09T11:47:57-0500

Always in His Presence said:
It is an act - not a law.

Ho ho ho, good one.

Hegseth to Return Memorial Biden Tore Down in Arlington National Cemetery

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